The M14 may rise again. Here's an interesting article on what the Navy's calling the "Enhanced Battle rifle". Page down past the stuff on the 6.8 SPC.

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/analysis8.html

(And hey, Kerry killed at least one more VC than Bush and Cheney put together. I'm just getting pissed off at the gratuitous insults. Your boys won. Be happy with that.)

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Originally posted by henryb24:
The XM-8 surely sounds like a very versatile weapon. We will only know its flaws when it is deployed in the field during a tactical situation, and surely, there will be flaws that will require modifications.

My biggest concern is that it is a foreign manufactured product. How willing will a foreign manufacturer be to make modifications the US demands and how willing will they be to meet our delivery timetables, especially if we need to ramp up unexpectedly for an internationally unpopular war? Also, what happens if they decide to double the price once this becomes the standard US weapon?

I also wonder why no US manufacturer was able to come up with a weapon that meets our military needs. H&K makes a fine product. I own an H&K pistol and it is a well-designed and made weapon. But, I hate for the U.S. to be dependent on ANY foreign manufacturer for our basic military weapon. I sure would hate to see all those dollars and jobs going overseas.

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That post is like from page 1, and it kind of bugs me. And this post isn't an attack on Ameircans or any such thing like that, so please no one take it personally.

Truth is America will probably never go back to using their older weapons when they get new shiny toys. So for all you people thinking the M4 and such will come back, thats pretty unlikely in my opinion. Secondly, as to America being "Dependent" on a foreign manufacturer well, they will never be dependent, and I'm sure once they get their hands on the XM8 they will being fiddiling around with it trying to make it better, and will probably make it themselves and give it a new spiffy name or some such thing. (Hey, they stole Alaska from Russia right?) Anyway point being, that America will NOt be the only country using an X8, I'm sure Canada will buy it ten years after it's in use or make a differen't version of it, (Such as the C7 etc.) Anyway, Germany will probably use the gun as well, so the thought of H&K not fixing problems with the gun is kind of unthinkable, once they find the problems if they do find problems. German soldiers will eventually face the same problems, and they will fix it. And it's not as if they would horde the new fixed design from America right? And if the price was to go up, thats fine right? America would come up with the money or fix their own weapons and not depend on Germany to nanny them for however long they keep the M8 series in service. So, the old weapons WILL be replaced, and if they are brought back they would have been altered so much they won't really be the old weapon right? It's kind of a bad thing however that we DO get so much new technology in, because the better the technology the less a soldier would have to rely on himself. (Especially with the 2020 NSC suit that has synthetic muscle which makes you stronger, but what happens when synthetic muscle breaks down :P )

Anyway, thats my thought on the whole shabang

Hello I'm Gunnery SGT> Shanklin and I was tinkling about trying to become a snipper in the U.S.M.C. can any one help point me in the right direction?

I don't believe I've ever seen a Gunny who needs help finding out how to go to a school who's job he can't spell from a web board and not at his unit.

One can only imagine what kind of care his troops get.

The only 'poorly designed' aspect of the
16s gas system is that it is French in origin - the iriginal was designed in 1910 by Rossignol and resurrected in the MAS 1922; the Swedes utilized it in the M1942 Ljungman semi-auto. Gene Stoner adopted it for its simplicity and because it works.....It has worked sine the early 60s and is the best (and only) modular rifle in service.....If a need for a 10 or 12 inch barrel is determined it is a simple solution to manufacture barrels in that length and and mount them onto upper receivers already in the inventory.....as a CQB weapon a 10/12 inch barrel would be (in my view) devastating.....the 62 grain bullet would not have enough time to stabilize and would yaw in the target in the same way as the old 55 grain with its 1 in 12 twist causing instantly incapacitating wounds.
The advent of the RAS and mounts from GG&G, along with the wide use of Aimpoints and other optics preclude the need for an entirely new weapons system....besides Barrett is testing its own replacement upper in 6.8 SPC and we should wait to see the results from the field testing of this new round.
In the time of Democrats *****ing about increased defense spending, we can offer them the sop of putting the XM8 on the back burner for a few years.....besides the yokels don't even understand the the Humvee is a jeep on steroids, and as such was never meant to be arnmored as it currently is being forced to do. Let the anti-war and anti-gun Democrats find something else to ***** about....the M16 family is fine as it is. I'm in the process of putting a thousand (or more) rounds thru my AR15 to see how long it will go before it needs a thorough cleaning as I'm sure GIs do every day.

great tool, but unless it features something manufactured by Haliburton or the Bush Dynasty our guy and gals will continue to use the M16 by the way does the M stand for musket? As for Iraq what ever happened to good old fashioned carpet bombing? I say we former solidiers and sailors do a little research on our own and then start a lobby to get our people the gear they need.

Lets cut the bull! our kids are dying over there and who cares who's in the White House lets fix this and win. During the whole campaign not one republican (military or civilian) had one negative thing to say about the handling of the war, but any Dem who spoke up was labled unpatriotic. Now that the election is over we hear top military brass and key Repulicans screaming about the dismal job Bush has done with this conflict. Where were these cowards before the election? Do you think a bodybag gives a damn about party affiliations? We Americans need to get our heads out of our A**** before the body count forces the draft and civilians have to start taking up arms to fight the terrorists in our own front yards.

"We" need sumthin' that works better when it's dirty and/or doesn't get dirty so easy. Might even need it in a caliber other than 5.56...

HKs XM8 may be it, may not be. The XM8 trials will be opened up to bidding, and somebody else might nail it, like FN or Baret/Barret/Barett/Barrett...

The military has needed a new assault weapon for years. The M-16, is a good weapon but is outdated in my opinion. I carry an H&K MP5 on duty (I'm a Prior Marine and now a Law Enforcement Officer)and a AR-15. Both are good weapons, where the MP5 can throw a lot of lead down range very quickly, the AR-15 is more accurate at close and long range. Also the AR-15 is easier to clean because the MP5 is a dirty pig. Putting all that aside, what we as Law Enforcement Officers and I assume the Military needs, is a weapons system that is compact in size, is very accurate at close and long range, and can throw a lot of lead when needed. H&K makes great weapons and I think the military needs to look to them, for it's next weapons system, whether it be the XM-8 or not. We just need a new assault weapon.

Colt and the M-16 series rifles saved my life and the lives of many of my friends in Vietnam, yet the politicians tried to withhold that firearm from US soldiers in lieu of the out dated M-14. Now they're attempting to shove another piece of crap (the MX-8) onto our soldiers because they have a surplus of 5.56 rounds and that's what the MX-8 uses. Why buy a German rifle? They have already proven by their Iraq policy, when in doubt German's cut and run (God forbid they might have to stand on their on two legs and defend what is morally right). What happens to weapon supplies if the German's don't like who we use them against. Do they close the US factories and go home? Get real and buy USA made products. We did whip the German's in WWII, didn't we?

the chermns can't use their best rifle so why not us (U.S.)anyone tried to load blanks and ball ammo at night without mixing them up (RIP memory) not going to be funny when droning and grab 'wrong ammo' consider very seriously changing ammos, a very big deal and not coffee talk. Barrett should be interim deal and spec ops only. not a reg army weapon, send upper recv kits out immed.ly just a great idea. no mention of the fact that enemy countered 223 with more heroin.
the fact that us has no issued red dot for leg guards is a crime. that shouldve been day one but for movement to contact and real killin' we should have bigger round. I don't hunt deer with a .22. OH what I meant to say, test the new rifle during Michigan deer season largest troop movement in the world, we'll break it if it can be broken.

what happen to gun cleaning solution that was supposed to be better than rbc or whatever? I remember there being a controversy over what was the best cleaner over at sftt.org between the gws
great site, help a troop

While I agree that the M16 needs to be replaced (good riddance to that "jam o matic" machine), I just can't see this new weapon system being used for all units throughout our entire military.
In short, I can see it as a special forces weapon system, but not standard infantry. I can see it used for vehicle crew operators as well.
I suppose my main problems are with the barrels, we are still going to be using the 5.56mmX45mm cartridge for this weapon system, and also I question what barrel's length. As for now, they will be interchangable, and I hope to god they use at least a 20 inch barrel for standard infantry units. A 16 inch or less with 5.56mmX45mm cartridge is not gonna be able to effectively reach out to 500 meters.
Also the sights are a problem to me. The iron sights look really cheap to me. It looks like a AK style flip up sights to me, which is definently not the way to go. I have a hard time invisioning the Army and especially the Marine Corps training new recruits with that.
In short, I see the XM8 as a good special forces weapon, not a good infantry assault rifle. It can be used for close quarter battle (and at the moment that's what we need in Iraq a lot more), but I cannot see this being used for anything past 300 meters.

I do not believe that our military should get in bed with a foreign manufacturer. We have enough damn good weapons manufacturers in this country. The problem I see with developing any new type of firearm is that it is always sold to some towel head country that down the road turns out to be our enemy. Of course if we don't sell it to them someone else will. Damned if you do and damned if you don't..

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Originally posted by jdthompson:
A great replacement for the M16 is the Israeli Tavor assualt rifle

although it is pretty expensive

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No one has said what these fancy new guns are really going to cost. I don't care what they say they expect them to cost, triple it then add even more to cover fixing flaws in the design.

It's a good start (i tested all three major variants in the jungle testing) ...but does not out perform the M4 SOPMOD (and barely meets standards of the conventional m16/m4). Ergonomics of the weapon will make it extremely dificult for BRM tricks we have used for years. I will be surprised if the Army goes with it (beyond some General/Congressman really pushing it through). It will get a severe bloody nose during operator testing.

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Why buy foreign made
I do not believe that our military should get in bed with a foreign manufacturer. We have enough damn good weapons manufacturers in this country. The problem I see with developing any new type of firearm is that it is always sold to some towel head country that down the road turns out to be our enemy. Of course if we don't sell it to them someone else will. Damned if you do and damned if you don't..

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I am amazed by the number of people in this thread, who Have said that no Foreign manufacture will make A US issued weapon the seem to have forgotten that US Forces all ready use a large number of weapons Manufactured By foreign arms makers. just too name a few
Beretta 92FS Italy (better known as the M9)
Sig P 226 swiss (used by navy seals)
HK MK .23 germany (Special ops)
HK MP5 Navy germany
Benelli M1014 Italy
FN Herstal M240 Belgium
FN Herstal M249 Belgium (the standard SAW)
some M2HB and M16A4 are also Made by FN Herstal
FFV ordnance out of sweden makes AT-4

The M16 is 40 years old it's about time it saw a replacement the Army (HK XM8) and SOCOM (FN Herstal SCAR) have both Issued requirements and chosen there Champions too replace the M16 and M4 rifles

I am amazed at the number os people who have stated that foreign manufactured weapons or weapons made by foreign arms makers would not or should not be issued. Remember US forces already issue a large number of foreign small arms
Beretta 92FS Italy
Sig P 226 swiss
HK MK .23 germany
HK MP5 Navy germany
Benelli M1014 Italy
FN Herstal M240 Belgium
FN Herstal M249 (SAW)
some M2HB and M16A4 are also Made by FN Herstal
FFV ordnance AT-4 sweden
just too name a few

The M16 is forty years old every other modern Army in the world has changed Assault rifles at least once in that Time. The HK XM8 looks Good for a replacement, And Even the US Special operations command wants to replace it although they want some thing other than the XM8 they have issued a request for
FN Herstal too make what they call the SCAR

I'll be honest with you, I did not read all of the posts, for this discussion thread. But correct me if I'm wrong. This weapon is made in Germany, right? Isn't this the same Germany, that opposed our going into Iraq? The same Germany who has not sent ANY troops, to assist ours? The same Germany, that was in UN violations, for providing weapons/accesories, to enemy countries? If so, why would we want to buy this weapons system from them? I'm not saying don't overhaul the M-16, it is an old weapon, that was still in service when I was active, but lets do it ourselves, or find an allie country, that's not going to run when it gets to hot in the kitchen!!

I have a couple of questions regarding guns and the XM8 soon to be the M8. I was wondering if you increase the rate of fire on a gun does it increase the accuracy of burst fire, because the 2nd gen. XM8s rate of fire was increased from 750 to 850. Also does anybody know if the arched railing on the XM8 serves any purpose or not or does it just add weight for no known reason. Also can anybody tell the disadvantges of high velocity rounds compared to slower velocity.

First of all I was in the Army. The M16 is a great rifle and the veitnam defects have bee way overplayed!

** But most of all anyone who thinks buying weapons from a country that has stuck our soldiers in the back should be shot by that weapon**

**** off Germany and France.