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I think we need a little billet restructuring for our ID afloat jobs, make them half FS1 jobs and half FS2 jobs.

That would be nice. Maybe take all the recommended FS1s and FS2s and lump them into a big pool of IDFSOs. I'm sure many FS1s wouldn't mind doing an 87' billet.

I'm sure there are many reasons why they can't/won't do that.

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It would also be ideal to have MORE non-FSO FS2 billets afloat to allow exposure to Non-PVA messes.

There are plenty of non FSO afloat billets available for FS2's, you just need to put them on your dream sheet.

I'm not an FS2. The non-FSO FS2 billets AFLOAT are fleeted up with FS3s that get promoted or FS2s that got fired from PBs. As it stands now there is such a shortage anyone that makes FS2 is proptly sent to a PB out of necessity. (With Exceptions.)

Remember (accually you might not) we are a seagoing rate.

I believe I do.

Alot of people on this FS forum need to do there share of sea time before they talk some crap about others leadership style. If you have a problem with the leadership of senior FS's, do them a favor and spend some time underway as a leader instead of acting like you've done it with your 3 years of seatime (2 of which were independent duty).

I would agree with you.

If nothing else there are plenty of perpetual inventory land billets available (which use the same system). With a good supervisor you can learn everything (whether land or sea) you need to complete a successful career in the Coast Guard.

A land billet isn't going to provide the experience of buying food from GITMO, dealing with foreign ports, doing a proper load out and many other cutter specific operations.

I've lurked on this forum for years now. To me it seems like there are to many wannabee Chiefs and not enough Indians. From what I have seen it has switched from the military to reality TV and Top Chefs. You need to remember that the majority of us joined the military for some structure, if you wanted to be a chef you could be working for Rocco right now. It's like I'm back in high school and there is a clic of FS's that think they are representing the entire FS fleet. Remember, you are NOT in an everyday civilian chef, you are in the military. There is no 5 star Galley in the Coast Guard, even though some of you feel that way.

Yup, how many sailors can you feed with an ice carving anyway?

This isn't some high dollar restaurant on 4th ave. The paperwork side of the job is very straight forward. If you look in the Food Service Manual it tells you everything you need to know, and if you still can't figure it out, FSAT is a phone call away.

There is not a rule or proceedure in the Coast Guard that isn't written in a manual or instruction somewhere.

As to where you get non-FSO afloat billets for FS2s: Take commands like WHECs and other large afloat messes with 2 FS1 billets and swap one with selected IDFSO FS2 billets. This could even be a temporary measure until we work out our issues.

One solution to the FS2 problem is to increase the time that an FS3 has in rate, maybe 18-24 monthes in order to be elible for E-5. Then by the time they are advanced they will have more experience(at least 2-3 years) and a better understanding of how the system works. Having a SWE is not the issue because they would just clear the list regardless. Also they need to bring back the FS2 billets to the WMEC's.
Some people are comparing us to Civilian chefs which is fine, but even in the civilian sector a line cook does not go to executive chef in two or so years; it takes practice, training, experience,and time. Advancement to the next higher pay grade is something you should have to work towards and not percieved as an entitlement.
The biggest problem is manpower. Just look at the message boards, there are more solicitations for junior FS's then any other rates. The bottom line is that we need to figure out a way to get more nonrates to FS "A" school and press to get the funds to offer more training opportuties to our junior FS's, and not just the ones who win the awards. Now I have an Ice Carving to get done before the evening meal......

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In my opinion the single most important issue facing the FS rating today is the fact that there is a handful of FS's with there own agenda that feel they deserve to run the show.

I've lurked on this forum for years now. To me it seems like there are to many wannabee Chiefs and not enough Indians. From what I have seen it has switched from the military to reality TV and Top Chefs. You need to remember that the majority of us joined the military for some structure, if you wanted to be a chef you could be working for Rocco right now. It's like I'm back in high school and there is a clic of FS's that think they are representing the entire FS fleet. Remember, you are NOT in an everyday civilian chef, you are in the military. There is no 5 star Galley in the Coast Guard, even though some of you feel that way.

Speaking of Top Chef, they have decided to include a military chef for the next show and asked if I could solicit military chefs to apply to the casting call. Click here to find out more. Also, why would anyone want to cook in a restaurant? It’s a miserable life with no pay. Best place to be a Chef right now is noncommercial food service or the military.

It sounds like you believe there is no high end foodservice going on in the Coast Guard. You are wrong. It’s part of our rate whether you like it or not. 6 cooks and I are currently setting up this 5 star galley you say doesn’t exist. Each of these Coast Guard cooks call themselves chefs due to there accomplishments and experience. We have an ACF Certified Executive Chef with 8 years of high end catering experience, and a seat on the Virginia Culinary Institute advisory committee, we have a CIA Grad who worked at the Four Seasons in Manhattan and Commanders Palace, we have two cooks who work at one of the highest end catering companies in DC directly serving and cooking for the highest profile clientele, both of these cooks have been stationed at the Commandants Mess and one of them was also stationed at the Secretary of Transportations mess, we also have a cook who caters at the white house on the side (you would be surprised how many coasties cook as independent contractors for White House). This group of Coasties can and will perform at the highest culinary level in this galley.

If you think this is the exception you are wrong again. Just in DC alone there are many Coast Guard Chefs with so much high end foodservice experience it’s ridiculous. In the SCA community the talent is off the charts. Around the Coast Guard the level of talent is incredible as well. You would not believe how many former SCA’s, Culinary School graduates and other self taught chefs types run around the Coast Guard as FS’s. They just keep their talents hidden because of the anti chef attitude many FS’s hold. What a waste..

If you think high level experienced Executive Chef types don’t belong in the Coast Guard you are wrong too. Here are a few examples of Coast Guard Units were an Executive Chef would thrive: Any Large Cutter, COTR of the Coast Guard Academy (multi million dollar colligate food service contract run by civilians), Chief of any large MWR club, Senior Enlisted Special Command Aide (Head of all SCA’s), Head Special Command Aide for the Commandant, Vice Commandant, Pac Area, Lant Area or Superintendent of the Coast Guard Academy, Food Service Specialist in Charge at the Department of Homeland Security Executive Dining Facility, Any Chief Food Service Instructor position at the Food Service A School, instructor at the Army's Advanced Culinary School, chef at the White House (yes we have one billet), head of the Commandants Mess and any position at one of the FSAT’s (having a chef on the FSAT team is essential for the training the FSAT team is responsible for providing). These jobs can provide the opportunity for an Executive Chef to enhance and display their Culinary and Hospitality Management skills, provide experience in all aspects of running a catering company/banquet hall, and expose the chef to the civilian upper management side of non commercial food service.

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From what I have seen it has switched from the military to reality TV and Top Chefs.

All of the other services market their Chefs, I decided about 5 years ago that it was time to market the Coast Guards Chefs as well. Marketing our Chefs provides more opportunities for training, publicity and a goal for our junior cooks to strive for.

Opportunities for training include culinary competitions that only require a Tono for the service member. This is a dirt cheap way to get the highest level at training at a bargain price. At most of the competitions you don’t even need a Tono. The costs are paid for by the people putting them on. Some of the recent “free” competitions are The Freedom Chef Challenge, The Barracks Row Competition in DC, an upcoming competition in Paris, France and many others including the possibility that we may have a Coastie at the culinary Olympics in Germany. We wouldn’t get this free training if we had no chefs.

Marketing our chefs also provides great publicity for the Coast Guard. The publicity at these events is tremendous. CG Chefs have the talents and opportunity to place the Coast Guards name out there in an extremely positive manner. Coasties are always frustrated because we are not included when it comes to anything military. This is not the case when it comes to Coast Guard Food Service. Coast Guard food service is respected throughout all the services. We are included in everything culinary and consistently beat out the other services for the “Best in Class” award at Fort Lee's Advanced Culinary Training Course In fact due to MilitaryChefs.com we have the only resource that brings all of the Military’s Chefs together. Can any other ratings say this?

Marketing our chefs motivates our junior cooks. It is not a defect to be in the food service industry and strive to be a chef. It is actually a common goal for most food service professionals minus the Coasties. If you are striving to be a Chef in the Coast Guard you’re looked at as a traitor. I love it ----> About 90% of the FS’s E7’s and above tell me they are “Paperwork Guys” when I ask them if they are into cooking.

Food Service Specialists = Chef

Not “Paper Work Guy”

Have fun doing paperwork.. I’m going to go cook something.

-FS1 James Swenson

“It sounds like you believe there is no high end foodservice going on in the Coast Guard. You are wrong. It’s part of our rate whether you like it or not. 6 cooks and I are currently setting up this 5 star galley you say doesn’t exist. Each of these Coast Guard cooks call themselves chefs due to their accomplishments and experience. We have an ACF Certified Executive Chef with 8 years of high end catering experience, and a seat on the Virginia Culinary Institute advisory committee, we have a CIA Grad who worked at the Four Seasons in Manhattan and Commanders Palace, we have two cooks who work at one of the highest end catering companies in DC directly serving and cooking for the highest profile clientele, both of these cooks have been stationed at the Commandants Mess and one of them was also stationed at the Secretary of Transportations mess, we also have a cook who caters at the white house on the side (you would be surprised how many Coasties cook as independent contractors for White House). This group of Coasties can and will perform at the highest culinary level in this galley.”

James,
You and I joke about the talent that you see even in myself that I do not see. I did enjoy reading this post, as it is the truth.
So, thank you.
Regards,
Tony

To all, I live this truth. I am one of the 6 individuals that James is speaking of. In the past I have never though of myself as a chef. There was even a conversation between Jimmy and I today that instills further in my head that there is a lot more involved with cooking that makes you what you are good at. I do work (cook) for one of the top catering companies in Washington, DC and I was also assigned to the Commandants Mess. If you think that I was given those opportunities, you are wrong. I had to and still do showcase my talents that proved to those who matter what I am capable of doing.

I too kept silent on this post until now. The FS rate as a whole is just fine. What is wrong is a select group of individuals who just does not give a rats foot! Yes, we are Military and yes, we have structure; yes, there is talent and finally, yes, we care.

All the other talent that is showcased throughout our rate is amazing. James spoke of the SCA’s, trust me when I tell you that the talent is there; however, it stems a lot further than that. Take the Coast Guard Culinary Team. It is comprised of FS’s from around the nation that range from FS3’s to FSCS’s, with a good number of individuals who cook onboard ships and at Coast Guard Stations.

With all this, my point is that you are only as good as you perform. Taking pride in what you do and what you are capable of doing is paramount in being successful in what you are good at.

Some may agree and some may not; until you show me what you are capable of doing, please do not worry about those select FS’s in the Coast Guard who do strive to further enhance their skills by bringing bigger and better things to the table.

-FS1 Anthony Noel

The most important part of our job is to serve the fleet(u/w). It seems that now we are focused more on how we look in the limelight not how we are serving our country by getting U/W and just being an FS/Petty Officer. Yes most of my time has been ID on PB's but I still have 10+ years U/W in 15 years.

You should be proud of the 10+ years U/W in 15 years.

We're in the Coast Guard a Sea Going service. We have the highest sea to shore ratio. The most important people in our rate are the ones underway.

Yes there is more.. but serving our fleet should be the top priority.

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It seems that now we are focused more on how we look in the limelight

On my off time, I always promote the unit I’m at. I promoted the 378 the 87 the Superintendents Quarters, Academy Food Service and now I work with Military Chefs so I’m going to promote them. When I get to a cutter I’ll promote the cutters food service ops as well. Are you saying promoting what we do is a bad thing?

If you think U/W units need some limelight you need to go get it for them. No one else is going to do it for you. In fact, I saw no one was promoting the Coast Guard a few years back so I created CGClips.com to promote it myself. Now we have the Coast Guard Channel and You Tube so I don’t need to do it any more.

Perfect example of someone promoting the rate:

Contrary to what everyone thinks Stacey Russell has had no high end food service billets or SCA positions and no ties to headquarters. She’s only been at cutters and stations. Using good quality food she has been able to showcase her units and the Coast Guard on Bobby Flay and Emeril Live.

Another Example:

Go to the minute four on this clip. Chief O'brien (Now CWO O'brien <----- Bah) put together an Iron chef completion that was featured on the food network:

http://www.militarychefs.com/1A/2_Media/OtherVideos/2006CGFSPROMO.html

These are examples of some nation wide coverage. Many other Coasties do the same thing but on a local level.

It’s easy, the media loves good quality, well presented food. No other rating has this powerful tool. They are not interested in your paperwork or how you run the galley (yes this stuff is important but the media doesn’t care). Food sells. Chef coats sell. Culinary expertise sells. If you want to promote the U/W community use these tools and do it.

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Originally posted by IBIS73:
The most important part of our job is to serve the fleet(u/w). It seems that now we are focused more on how we look in the limelight not how we are serving our country by getting U/W and just being an FS/Petty Officer. Yes most of my time has been ID on PB's but I still have 10+ years U/W in 15 years.

Why do I need to be just another petty officer or another FS? I love my country, served it for 11 years, and many more to come. I am also one of the six James was talking about. I work at the Executive Dining Facility in DHS, "The Mount Vernon Room". I also work at the White House. I won galley of the year Med. ashore 2005. I was an SCA for 3 years. I've cooked for the President and family, Prime Minister of Isreal, Congressional Picnic, just to name a few. Does this make me less of a fellow contryman and patriot than another FS. I think that I have worked hard to get where I am because I do love my job, country and the Coast Guard. I also love my family and doing what it takes to learn and succeed in what I love to do will help me support them when I retire. Do what you love, love what you do, and be best you can.
Ice carvings, fruit carvings, garnishes and decorations can't feed someone but it sure was nice to see the smiles of my shipmates faces when they came to the galley. It's not about limelite, it's about the satisfaction of seeing someone enjoy eating in the dining facility, no matter where it's at, (The White House, Station, PB, 210 or where ever.) Have fun and stay safe.
FS1 Larry Dagen

We have a rift in our rating that has been growing larger and larger for quite a while now. To some, it is not enough to simply be satisfied with taking care of the crew and doing the best you can. Some folks crave the excitement and recognition of bigger and better things. And so what? That is fine. There are more than enough opportunities out there to provide everyone the job satisfaction they desire. But we need to quit bickering like a bunch of kids and take a good look at what our rating has become and where it is going.

Fact: Our training opportunities are in the toilet. The few courses available are so hard to get into people get discouraged. It's great to draw people in with the idea that they can become a chef, but they are gonna take off for greener pastures if they are never given the chance to expand their talent. OJT is great, self-learning is great. But not every supervisor has that skill level and not every member is able to teach themselves what they need to know. At the same time, glamorizing our rating too much is almost false advertising. Pity the poor A school graduate who was expecting something other than 13 hour days in the galley, midrats, cooking underway etc.

FACT: We need to get a handle on paperwork management training before we spend money to grow our other school opportunities. At the very least, make people complete their performance qualifications. Can you be an FS2 and not go to ID? Sure. But the fact remains, the FS2 qualifications require the member to complete all daily/monthly paperwork including the 2576. Successfully completing all paperwork for a specified number of months should more than qualify someone for ID. And no more nonsense about needing PVA school. PVA is less than half the work of perpetual inventory. I don't know of anyone who, as an FS3, goes to a unit that doesn't do perpetual inventory. PVA is a matter of always being aware of the bottom line which, if you keep up with your paperwork, you will always know by looking at your 3471.

Fact: At the most basic level, our job is to feed our crew and keep our galley solvent. There are hundreds of perfectly competent cooks and managers who will never be gourmet chefs. They have no desire to be. Their job satisfaction comes from the compliments they receive on a day to day basis, no mistakes on the monthly report and no deficit. Why put these folks down? Why make them feel inferior? There's a "I'm better than you" attitude floating around that has to go away. The most talented guy in the kitchen may be incapable of managing a dining facility or being a supervisor.

Don't we get enough BS from others on a day to day basis without going after each other too? Next thing you know we'll be like some of the other ratings that do nothing but bicker about which side of the house is beter. That's the last thing we need.

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At the same time, glamorizing our rating too much is almost false advertising. Pity the poor A school graduate who was expecting something other than 13 hour days in the galley, midrats, cooking underway etc.

Yup, that has crossed my mind many times.

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Their job satisfaction comes from the compliments they receive on a day to day basis, no mistakes on the monthly report and no deficit. Why put these folks down?

I personally think the greatest accomplishment an FS can achieve is a succesful tour as FSO of a Meduim or Large cutter. I have tons of respect for the cooks/chefs in the fleet.

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Why put these folks down? Why make them feel inferior? There's a "I'm better than you" attitude floating around that has to go away. The most talented guy in the kitchen may be incapable of managing a dining facility or being a supervisor.

I think you have it switched around. The SCA’s have been $hit on for a long time now for what we do. I’ve been asking the same questions Why put these folks down? Why make them feel inferior? There's a "I'm better than you" attitude that has to go away. I completely agree.

The SCA program is part of the rating. I’m going to promote it and I’m going to defend it.

"I personally think the greatest accomplishment an FS can achieve is a succesful tour as FSO of a Meduim or Large cutter. I have tons of respect for the cooks/chefs in the fleet."

So what you are saying is that is not an acomplishment to have a sucessful tour as an ID afloat FSO at a small unit. I fell like garbage now because you were my idol Jimmy Z.

I have no problem with the SCA program. And I agree with you, they have quite often received a lot of grief they don't deserve. That is a difficult job that needs to be done and it takes a certain type of person to successfully do it. I have an outstanding FS2 whose goal is to get an SCA job when he PCS's next year and I have done everything in my power to get him what he needs to be competitive when he applies.

But, lets just say that there is a perception out there that unless you're connected in some way, you're not gonna get the school you want, you're not gonna be considered for that job you want etc. There are people in our rating who have barely been in the field because they somehow managed to do more than one SCA job in a row, but can still make FSC without the required seatime and then go to FSAT (isn't one of the requirements a broad knowledge of the rating AND here's the one gets skipped a lot "have served as an FSO at a unit with three or more FS's assigned". Oops, FSAT, whole different conversation.

I understand that actually filling the SCA jobs can be difficult but if the perception in the fleet is "why bother cuz other people have the inside track" then there is a problem. The other problem you run into with the SCA job is the perception that you are going to be worked to death, doing crap that is not in your job description, hen-pecked by the admiral's wife...There is a lot of disinformation gets passed around whether from the dissatisfied or from the guy that wants to keep others away. A clearer instruction as to the duties and responsibilites of the SCA, widely disseminated and clearly enforced would go a long way toward drawing people to the job. I know the information is out there. And I always make sure my guys have everything they need to make an informed choice. But how do I combat what they may have heard or even SEEN (we routinely supplement the local SCA).

I wanted to do it at one time but I didn't feel that my family situation (single parent) would allow me to devote the time and energy necessary to do the job properly. That's me deciding what's important in my life.

Or think of this...if you live in an area where the district SCA is constantly requesting assistance you got to wonder just how great that job is and if you'd really like to do it.

So I probably was back off subject again. But really, this is a great thread, great topic. Best that's been here in a quite a while. Sorry, only so much culinary quiz i can take

I sell this stuff a bit more than I should.. SCA duties, competitions and catering are far from pleasant. In fact, quite often it can be miserable. There are rewards but just like everything else, it has it’s ups and downs.

Please have your FS2 call me anytime if he wants to talk.

This was a great thread until I hijacked it a bit. I pulled this thing way off topic and will refrain from posting about 5% of the rate. There are more important things to talk about here.

If you want to bash or defend Coast Guard Chefs please move it to another thread. I'll be sure to join in.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jimmy_Z_,

I wonder, how many chefs work in kitchens with grills that only heat up on one side, steam kettles that leak or never get up to temp when there is steam available, rocks 15-20 degrees from side to side 24 hours a day, ovens that have doors held on with lock wire, deep fat fryers that are used for storage because they haven’t worked for the last 18 months, freezers that leak water on everything and freezes, freezers that leak Freon…
And oh, the money that we promised you last year is going to fix the boilers, the main diesel engines, the rudder angle indicator, the RADARS, the nitrogen leak in the 76mm, the small boat davits…

I never had the inside track. I always had to compete and show why I deserved the job. I had to go through stressfull interviews, perpare 4 course dinners for 12 at a moments notice, just part of the interview. I had to work. I was on a 210 for 4 years. I know that the work I'm doing now is easy and yes I have gone from land to land, but I kept my eye on the message board, saw I job I could excell in and went for it. These things just happen. Ask anyone I was ever stationed with, and theres a few on here, and they will tell you that I never brag, I never say I'm better than you, I never complain(at work). Just don't ask the grumpy MK's. I go to work, get the job done, and gone home. My job is just differnent, I'm here just defending that I'm still an FS, in still a Petty Officer, I'm still a Coastie and a fellow countryman.
I miss being on a boat, I miss the friendships, portcalls, and most of all the ocean. This is just another 3 year billet. They are all on the shopping list, if you want it, get it, and I say this with the highest respects for everyone on here. Nobody is in control of your career.

I know the SCA job is hard and I would not want to do it myself. I enjoy not only cooking but also working out on deck and being a Mentor/Petty Officer. After winning Galley of the Year twice and being awarded as the D8 EPOY I was told I should turn in a packet for SCA but the SCA job is something that just does not interest me. The best thing the FS rate and the Coast Guard has given me is my family. Not just my wife and kids but all of the men and women I have sailed with.

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I know that the work I'm doing now is easy and yes I have gone from land to land, but I kept my eye on the message board, saw I job I could excell in and went for it.

Here is my problem, every time I have transfered I have read on the AO website that if you are coming off land you will be getting U/W and it is not the case with all FS's. I have always been "realistic" about my picks expecting to go back to sea and doing my part as a FS, a sea going rate. It just upsets me to see other fellow FS's (E6/E7) without a Permanent Cuttermans Pin and going from land job to land job. If I want to go out of rate, there is the chance(Very High) that I will not get released from our detailer due to the fact that we don't have enough ID FS's.

I have nothing but respect for everyone out there. I know that I'm lacking in FS "variety" billets. I was an SNFS-FS2 on a 210. Then went to a Gru, short toured, went SCA, made FS1, short toured, went to DHS. I want my cuttermans pin and plan on getting it. I need 1 year and 2 months. When I leave here I know and expect a boat. I'm not avoiding it, everything that has happened to my carrer so far happened so quick and I had to make quick decisions. I have no regrets for where and what I've done b/c I know it made me a better Coastie and a better person to see a side of the CG that I never knew existed until I went to my first FS awards show. I know variety is what we need to stay fresh so I know that this "path" I took is just a detour to do so. I think of all CG chefs as that, Chefs. It's not a competition between SCA's and the fleet, it's about finding what you want and getting it. There are hundreds of CG Chefs that have done what I have and much more, I'm not special and I don't think I am. I just love to cook and I want to learn as much as I can.

Very well said IBIS, why should they get to go land to land just because of your past cooking history. Don't give me that "put in for the billet", you guys are hand picked. This is SEA SERVICE! and a "UNDERWAY RATE"! When is the last time you were an FSO? You talk about your team having a FS3, bet he is a wiz at paperwork! Who cares if you can do an ice carving or make all of that gourmet food! If you can't finish a end of month report with no errors and keep your crewmembers pleased then it doesn't matter! If we only put as much time and effort into training people for FSO positions as we do in our "Advanced Culinary Team" we would have very few FSO's relieved. That's my opinion!