What do you guys think?


SUBJ: SWE SEA/SURF DUTY AND AWARDS POINT POLICY CHANGE
A. PERSONNEL MANUAL, COMDTINST M1000.6 (SERIES)
1. THIS MESSAGE ANNOUNCES A POLICY CHANGE TO THE PROCEDURE FOR CREDITING POINTS FOR SEA TIME SURF TIME, AND AWARDS IN THE FINAL MULTIPLE ON THE SERVICEWIDE EXAMINATION. EFFECTIVE 1 JANUARY 2010, PARA 5.C.16 AND PARA 5.C.3.B.OF REF A ARE CHANGED TO AUTHORIZE FINAL MULTIPLE CREDIT FOR ONLY THAT SEA TIME, SURF TIME, AND THOSE AWARDS EARNED AT A MEMBER'S CURRENT PAY GRADE WHEN THEIR DATE OF RANK IN THAT PAY GRADE IS 1 JANUARY 2010 OR LATER. THIS CHANGE WILL BE IMPLEMENTED WITH THE FOLLOWING RULE.
2. ALL MEMBERS WILL RECEIVE FULL CREDIT FOR ALL EARNED COAST GUARD SEA TIME, SURF TIME, AND ALL AWARDS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED FINAL MULTIPLE POINTS FOR THEIR FIRST ADVANCEMENT ON OR AFTER 1 JANUARY 2010. FOR EXAMPLE, A MEMBER WHO IS NOT
ADVANCED IN 2010 BUT AT A LATER DATE WILL CONTINUE TO RECEIVE ALL EARNED COAST GUARD CREDIT FOR SEA TIME, SURF TIME, AND ALL AWARDS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED. ALL SUBSEQUENT ADVANCEMENTS WILL BE BASED ON THE NEW POLICY.
3. THIS CHANGE WILL TAKE EFFECT FOR THE RESERVE COMPONENT WITH THE OCTOBER 2010 SERVICEWIDE EXAMINATION AND APPLY TO ALL DATES OF RANK OF 1 JANUARY 2010 AND LATER.
4. MEMBERS ARE DIRECTED TO THE MCPOCG BLOG AT
HTTP://COASTGUARDALLHANDS.BLOG...VANCEMENT-RESET.HTML TO POST QUESTIONS. PLEASE REVIEW THE POSTS AND OFFICIAL ANSWERS BEFORE ADDING NEW QUESTIONS.
5. RADM JODY A. BRECKENRIDGE, ASSISTANT COMMANDANT FOR HUMAN RESOURCES, SENDS.
6. INTERNET RELEASE AUTHORIZED.

Awful. I had a career plan that involved front loading my career with sea time, so I could have a family life as I got near the twilight of my career without affecting my advancement opportunity. Now, after what will be 9.5 straight years at sea (out of 10 years of service) will count for nothing. Way to level the playing field for those who can't plan ahead.

I completly agreee with you seanboy617. I too planned my career advancement route so I can start a family as well on my twilight tour. I can't believe they did not consult shipboard personnel on the issue. Way to show great leadership qualities to us junior folks.

This policy is crap to say the least, I spent 5.5 yrs (out of 6) underway to get ahead of the people in my rate that only wanted to stay ashore. And now myself and the others like me have been cheated. The ones that did not want to get on a cutter because they would not be able to go to the club every weekend will be rewarded. What about the time that me and my "SHIPMATES" spent away from our families while the guys at the ANTS and the stations were at home.

I also do not care for this new policy but there isn't anything we can do about it. Time to study more and score higher to get ahead of land people again.

I think most are forgetting that the SWE is the biggest source of points for advancement. Study hard and do well on the test and all those points you are worried about wont matter.

What I do think is unfair is that everyone advancing before 1/1/10 will get to keep all those points. I actually benefit from this but I do think it is unfair.

Nothing is ever perfect but I still feel our advancement system is as fair as it can be.

For all of you complaining, why don't you front load yourself w/ studying for the SWE instead of walking into the test room w/ your points. You'll find that getting a high score will help you out better than all those sea time or award points ever will. It will also make you a better leader when your juniors ask you a question and you're able to give them an answer rather than refer to someone else.

If you think the sea time points sucks after 1/1/10, I had to forfeit all my sea time prior to 1Feb94. Also, the personal awards dropped from 20 points to 10. I'm over it now, as i quickly realized that studying for the SWE and knowing your job will carry you to the top of the list.

Good point on studying for the SWE; no doubt this is the best way to ensure you advance. However I agree with the majority here first of all what is the point of this policy change? What are expecting to gain from this?

One of the prior post said level the playing field; level it for who? Everyone has equal opportunity to go to sea and earn personal awards the choice is yours.

Anyone who has taken more than a few SWE knows having some additional points added into your final multiple can make a dramatic difference.

Seems like we are penalizing those folks who consistently go to sea and earn accolades through their performance; but maybe I'm reading to much into it.

I hear a lot of study harder and all the other stuff. I have to say that the service wide is not about how much you know your job. The service wide is a wide based test. In my rate it can about almost anything, smallboats, 378, 270, 110, 47, etc. Taking away sea points will make people not want to got boats. It seems that people who go to boats go kicking and screaming as it is, it is going to be worse. I know all about pick your rate and all of that. Think about all the discruntled coasties there will be and and the people who have to deal with that. I honestly feel that a lot needs to be based off of marks if the marking system was not all messed up. Your marks is what tells if you do your job. Supervisors inflate marks. The criteria is cut and dry. If you look at the criteria, a 4 is pretty darn good. People who get a butt load of 7s has their marks inflated. Sorry about the rant, butI feel if they are going to take away a incentive from going to sea, maybe they can give a incentive, like having your sea pay be additive to retirement. I would gladly give up sea points for that. Just taking away the points is wrong. The test thing is a lot easier said.

I agree with "outlaw" that sea duty should be compensated by sea pay, which I believe has not been increased in quite awhile. Out of all the enlisted billets in the CG what is the percentage of those billets qualifying as "sea duty?" I would guess less than 1/3, but that is just a guess. Sea duty points should be removed all together...and sea pay increased!!

How will this new program actual work?

#1- If someone took the service wide in May 2010 and was above the final cut for advancement prior to December 31, 2011 but was carried over and did not actually get advanced until February 1, 2012. Will that person's award points be reset at the time of advancement? If so, what happens to all the point that person earned between February 1, 2010 and February 1, 2012?
Thank you for all you did, now start over!!

#2- If a person goes through A-school and advances to E-4 will all their points be reset to zero at that time? They didn't have to take a service wide, but the seasoned Coast Guardsman is now on the same playing field as the brand new Cape May Graduate. And for all you prior service folks...Thanks for all you did, now do it again.

I think "The Test" and Marks should count for atleast 3/4 of the 200 point final multiple. And they should do away with the points for sea duty and awards.

I too will lose the sea and award points. Here is the deal though. The last 3 SWE I took, I wrote between #70 and #100 and got bumped down all the way to 223 and further all because someone had a command that gave out awards for doing their job when I knew way more than what they knew on the test and higher marks. This will level the playing field. Give it time. I understand a bunch of you are frustrated, but we have to start somewhere and I think that the RFMCs have though this through to do what is best for the service.. BTW for those of you saying where is the benefit of going to sea...It is called sea pay.

Hey Cowboy,
Until you get a few years of sea time, you lose money getting underway. Sea pay does not equal BAS. Sea Pay is taxed, BAS is not.
I do feel that this new system will be counter productive in getting junior (E-5 and below) members afloat but it will encourage more senior members (E-7 and above) to get underway. I think the impact on E-6's will not change any.
You stated you got bumped down after writing between 70 and 100. Either way, depending on your rate, you most likely would not have advanced anyway. Try writing in the top ten then complain about dropping on the list.
I am not saying I totally agree with the new system but I am not totally against either.

I cant say I agree with the new system. Not only are the sea points going away, the award points are going away also. I dont feel it is right to level the playing field for someone who does not do their job and gets in trouble and then someone that has their Good Conducts and Acievement/Accomendation medals. The person who has awards gets them erased. So Jonny Dirtbag who kept his nose clean for only one year just so he gets to take the servicewide gets the same playing field as Joe Coastie who always does his job above and beyond. I wouldnt think it is so bad, but the Coast Guard does notgive awards when you earn them, they give them as end of tour which is wrong. If someone looses their points and they go to a lan unit, they wont have any points for 4 years. Points are a incentive for a test that is made for you to do bad, so the incentive is points. That is just my thoughts.

Sea Pay was adjusted in late 2000 or early 2001. The three different levels of sea pay were created, amounts went up dramaticly and nonrated personnel now collect sea pay which was a great change.

And your estimate of the cutter fleet is pretty spot on; we make up about 1/3 to a 1/4 of the service and we are a dying breed.

Even with the sea pay adjustment, you lose money for at least your first two years. I don't think you really gain anything till about five years. That is a lot lot of underway time with no real incentive if you ask me.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: akflyfisher,

I want to say, I completely agree with the boys at the top, at least with the effort of trying to afford yourself the luxury of family life, sans sea life. But I think the Master Chiefs plan is not the culprit...I found a huge flaw in your plan. You choose a sea going rating, in a sea going service. You did not get screwed...your not a victim, your a volunteer.

Look I think all of you that think this system is fair are missing the point. I have been in the Coast Guard for couple of years and every major decision this service has made has turn out to be a disaster; 123 PB, First ODU, MEP, NSC, 25 RBS keep ejecting people and so on. Now by saying this do you really think this is a good idea. Look weather you have been at sea or not, the only think I though it was well thought was our advancement system and there are going to mess it up.

The point here is they said after talking to the fleet they came up with this, well what fleet the "NAVY" I know people in every distric in the Coast Guard and a really high up YN and nobody knew about this. Who do they talk to of course to people that dont get advance and promoted anymore. Is this fair?

I just hate when this sevice lie to everybody and is a shame how often they do it.

its not a sea going service it is a maritime service

I too lost 4 years sea time, since they dont count the sea time before 94...crap happens. Also, I personally have always thought that the SWE shouldnt count as much in your advancement...I have seen some OUTFRIGGINSTANDING people, who should advance, but just froze on the SWE test. There should be more of a board like the AF does for advancements. But that will never happen, so like I said...crap happens.

quote:

its not a sea going service it is a maritime service

I'm not sure what the difference is, could you explain please? I have a hunch the two are synonomous.

CG has ships, ships go to sea, ergo, seagoing service.