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Picture of IronErik
Posted
I've been trying to make sense of our nations financial practices, namely, our ongoing inability to keep spending under controll. As long as I can remember, we have overspent by billions of dollars every year. We have to borrow that extra money, which is somewhere around $11 trillion right now. I've lost track of how much the interest payments are now.

I have to admit my understanding of financial matters is limited to "don't spend more than you make." I can not believe that our nation will last long if we continue to spend money we don't have. Don't corporations go bankrupt over that sort of thing?

Can someone explain what will happen to our government if it continues to add to our massive public debt with no plans to slow down, and no plans to pay it back?
 
Posts: 1339 | Registered: Mon 15 November 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Highly Experienced Member
Picture of ErichG2
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The currency will devalue to such an extent that the purchasing power of your savings will be reduced by double digits on a annual basis without ever leaving the bank. They refer to it as hyperinflation. At that point, the government has to step in and devalue the currency to stop hyperinflation. Most governments typically wait until its way too late to take action here and things really start to fall apart.

So quite common to see foodstuffs rise to historically biblical apolyptic levels. Would not be uncommon for example for a single loaf of bread to cost a days earnings. The price of a car to rise to the price of house, etc.

After a major currency devaluation, the country usually has a issue with it's creditors because they are screwed now as they loaned out dollars that could purchase more then the dollars that are being paid back. So usually a meeting with the creditor nations where conditions of repayment and benchmarks/conditions established. How intrusive those conditions imposed are depends on the creditor / nation. They can dictate type of political system, what is spent in the National Budget, etc. Pretty much the country loses a large part of it's sovernty. Once those conditions are agreed upon and are imposed, you usually see unrest in the street shortly afterwards.

I'm not really sure how Wiemar Germany was let off the stick with it's Creditors. However France invaded and took possession of assets in the West and ended up machine gunning down some Germans sooooo, they didn't escape all the WWI debt via hyperinflation.

So thats what happens when a country exceeds it's means. Kind of similar to a Chapter 11 on the Corporate side but with a little more bloodshed and imprisonment when it happens to a government.
 
Posts: 11205 | Registered: Wed 02 August 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Lord, Beer me strength!"
Picture of pharoah_1701n
Posted Hide Post
So, I should invest in Yen and Euros...
 
Posts: 2613 | Registered: Mon 01 December 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Highly Experienced Member
Picture of ErichG2
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by pharoah_1701n:
So, I should invest in Yen and Euros...


Nope, stay where you are in dollars, would be my advice. Razz

China is kind of a illusion in my opinion not sure how strong their economy is. It's weakness is consumer spending in the United States it appears.

Europe is in worse shape then we are for the most part.

United States is still the investor safe haven for the world. If that ever changes, we could be in trouble though.
 
Posts: 11205 | Registered: Wed 02 August 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Lord, Beer me strength!"
Picture of pharoah_1701n
Posted Hide Post
quote:
If that ever changes, we could be in trouble though.

That's why I invest in canned goods, twinkies, and S&W .40 HPs...
Not really, but I should.
 
Posts: 2613 | Registered: Mon 01 December 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Picture of networkpro
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Just think of Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe's country and its current economic situation.

Highest monthly inflation rate 79,600,000,000% Equivalent daily inflation rate 98.0%
Time required for prices to double 24.7 Hours

The day the Z$100,000,000,000 (thats 100 Billion Zimbabwe Dollars) was released you could only buy three eggs with it.

Its the same situation that Germany was in before the National Socialists took over.
 
Posts: 2820 | Registered: Wed 30 July 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Widowmaker
Picture of airdiablo6
Posted Hide Post
Banks and insurance companies get millions in bail outs ,, CEO's get millions in bonus,,

I live check to check, see my taxes going up, health care costs going up, 401 k going down, and have scrape up gas money.

Yeah Uncle Sam. Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 9897 | Registered: Mon 02 May 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Judge Stump
Picture of WENDELLKEITHDUNCAN
Posted Hide Post
I was listening to talking heads this morning talking about banks. Citi and Bank of America still sucks.
But most of the discussions were about this statement.

[[On Thursday, JPMorgan Chase became the latest big bank to announce stellar second-quarter earnings. Its $2.7 billion profit, after record gains for Goldman Sachs, underscores how the government’s effort to halt a collapse has also set the stage for a narrowing concentration of financial power.]]

A lot of discusion was about bonus money for executives.
If anyone gets a bonus, it should be based on a five year performance and it should be small.
A bonus for 3 months work is BS.
 
Posts: 16286 | Registered: Sat 27 January 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Never Quit!"
Picture of Mad_Matt
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WENDELLKEITHDUNCAN:
... A bonus for 3 months work is BS.


How much is a Noble Peace Prize medal worth?

Matt
SPC, AV
US Army
OCS Selectee
Class 303-10
 
Posts: 3979 | Registered: Mon 19 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
New Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mad_Matt:
quote:
Originally posted by WENDELLKEITHDUNCAN:
... A bonus for 3 months work is BS.


How much is a Noble Peace Prize medal worth?


I'm not sure how much the actual medal is worth, but the prize itself is $1.4million (US currency).
 
Posts: 27 | Registered: Tue 29 September 2009Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Highly Experienced Member
Picture of ErichG2
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From todays news:

quote:
China trimmed its holdings by $3.4 billion to $797.1 billion in August, but still remained the largest foreign holder of Treasury securities.

Japan, the second largest foreign holder, boosted its Treasury securities to $731 billion, from $724.5 billion in July.

The federal budget deficit for 2009, which will be officially released later Friday, is expected to more than triple last year's record imbalance. The Congressional Budget Office projects that under President Barack Obama's spending plans, the red ink will total $9.1 trillion over the next decade.

The 2009 deficit ballooned as the government spent massive amounts to stabilize the financial system and jump-start the economy. In addition, revenues plunged as millions of Americans lost their jobs and recession-battered companies paid less in corporate income taxes.

China's foreign holdings of Treasury securities are a direct result of the huge trade deficits the U.S. runs with China. The Chinese take the dollars Americans pay for Chinese products and invest them in Treasury securities and other dollar-denominated assets.

American manufacturers argue that the huge dollar reserves China is building up reflect a strategy by the Chinese government to keep its currency artificially low against the dollar to gain trade advantages. A weak Chinese currency makes Chinese goods cheaper to American consumers and U.S. products more expensive in China.

However, the administration on Thursday declined to cite China as a currency manipulator in its latest currency report to Congress.

China, alongside several other emerging countries, has been pushing for an alternative to the U.S. dollar as a reserve asset as the emerging Asian power diversifies its holdings. A falling dollar means its reserves are worth less.

Recent figures from the International Monetary Fund showed that the dollar's share of total reserves has fallen to its lowest level since 1995.

The dollar's reaction was muted Friday. The 16-nation euro dropped to $1.4880 from $1.4931 late Thursday, while the dollar rose to 91.03 Japanese yen from 90.65 yen. The British pound, meanwhile, gained to $1.6360 from $1.6268.

The Chinese currency is not freely traded.


In addition, the $787 Billion stimulus is largely social transfer payments which generate no real future wealth. Infrastructure investments in the stimulus package are few and far between. In reality, we do not have much a stimulus. Probably less then $100 billion of the over $787 Billion slotted to be spent is going to Infrastructure.

So the Economy is recovering on it's own largely and it will be a jobless recovery as a result of the transfer payments, we can also expect higher then normal inflation in the not too distant future. Frown
 
Posts: 11205 | Registered: Wed 02 August 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Highly Experienced Member
Picture of ErichG2
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quote:


DEFICITS, DEFICITS:

$459 billion: 2008 deficit

$1.4 trillion: 2009 deficit, highest on record

$1.4 trillion: 2010 deficit (Projection by Congressional Budget Office)

$974 billion: 2011 deficit (projected)

$633 billion: 2012 deficit (projected)

$1.2 trillion: 2019 deficit (projected)

___

BIGGEST DEFICITS AS PERCENTAGE OF GDP, SINCE 1940:

10 percent: 2009 deficit

3.2 percent: 2008 deficit

6 percent: 1983 deficit

21.5 percent: 1945 deficit

30.3 percent: 1943 deficit

___

WHEN HAS THE NATION RUN A SURPLUS?

12: Number of years since 1940 the United States has run a budget surplus

28: Number of years the budget was in deficit, 1970-1997

4: Number of years the budget was in surplus, 1998-2001

$70 million: Cumulative U.S. surplus from 1789-1849

$1 billion: Cumulative U.S. debt from 1850-1900

___

NATIONAL DEBT, HIGHS AND LOWS:

29.6 percent: National debt — the total of annual deficits — as a percentage of GDP in 1790

2.7 percent: Debt as percentage of GDP in 1916, lowest since 1900

33.4 percent: Debt as percentage of GDP in 1919, after World War I

112.7 percent: Debt in 1945

24.6 percent: Debt in 1974, a postwar low

51 percent: National debt as percentage of GDP, 2009

81.7 percent: National debt by 2019 (CBO estimate)

___

NATIONAL DEBT TO GDP (All figures for 2008):

40.8 percent: United States

90.2 percent: Belgium

107.9 percent: Greece

60.6 percent: UK

54.2 percent: France

38.9 percent: Germany

___

MAKE LESS, SPEND MORE:

$419 billion: Drop in federal taxes and other revenue from 2008 to 2009

$543 billion: Increase in spending from 2008 to 2009

$2.1 trillion: Federal revenue in 2009

$3.5 trillion: Federal spending in 2009

___

PAYING THE PIPER:

$253 billion: Interest paid by government, 2008

$191 billion: Interest in 2009

$799 billion: Projected interest, 2019

___

INTEREST COSTS COMPARED for 2009:

4.7 percent: Interest as a proportion of federal spending

18.1 percent: Military's proportion of spending

11.6 percent: Medicare's proportion

___

INTEREST COSTS COMPARED for 2019 (White House projections):

14.6 percent: Interest

13.5 percent: Military

16.4 percent: Medicare
 
Posts: 11205 | Registered: Wed 02 August 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
EIB, Follow Me!
Picture of bowmasterX
Posted Hide Post
I sit in a $1000.00 dollar chair (YES, I said One Thousand dollars) at my federal job. It's a reeaal nice chair. We need good chairs at my job, but we probably don't need thousand dollar chairs. They just ran around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to spend all the 2009 money so they don't lose it in 2010. Thats been the way for years.
 
Posts: 1776 | Registered: Sat 09 December 2000Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Widowmaker
Picture of airdiablo6
Posted Hide Post
Now I want $1,000.00 chair Frown
 
Posts: 9897 | Registered: Mon 02 May 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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