One thing i have always noticed is that Officers for equal time served in the Military always seem to have double the awards that enlisted have and they usually always have the higher awards too.

Anyone else Notice this ? For example im checking out various ranked people on google in command at differant bases in the United states and its always the Colonels or Generals that have a ribbon rack going down to there knee's so to speak.

Alot of the Command Sergent Major's and CW5's at these base's usually have 1 or 2 Meritorious Service medal, and a couple Commendation medals and maybe 1 has a bronze star and then the list goes down.

While the Colonels seem to have Defense Superior Merit Medals Bronze stars Commendation, Legion of Merit's. On top of that they also have like 4-5 Oak Leaf clusters on one of them.

I understand Colonels are usually in charge of Garrison's and stuff like that but why do they always have bigger and better shiny's than the others ? Whats makes them so special?

Im not in the military my dad was, but i just want to now why its always like this.

Sadly, you are right and when it comes down to it, it's politics, and officers just tend to be better at it.

I don't play politics well, which is why it took me 18 years to get my first ARCOM.

I dunno it just makes me sick see'ing all these Enlisted and Warrent Officers, who serve for over 20 years have half the crap that these Officers seem to get simply because there "in command"


Have you noticed the Generals ? There in for like what 30-35 years and they have so many medals its sickening. Its like they give themselves medals.

You said it took you 18 years to get a Army Commendation. Now what rank were you ? What did you did in the Military ? I want to know what Qualifies a Colonel to have Legion of Merit's and 5 Meritorious Medals and bronze stars and all that mumbo over someone else

Chief,

You can click on my name (upper left corner of the post) that opens up a drop down, then click on view public profile and all your questions will be answered.

Cliff notes version, currently a CPT. Seven years prior enlisted.

Candyman,

IMHO, medals are definitely doled out according to rank. In Iraq, E-7's and above automatically were awarded a bronze star just for showing up to the party. E-4's and below got ARCOM's if they were lucky, I was one of the unlucky one's who came away with an AAM, and spent the next year out for surgeries and rehab to recover from all the fun. Injured not wounded, no Purple Heart.

But the bottom line is......wait for it......WHO CARES?

The ONLY award that's actually worth a damn is the look in your fellow soldier's eyes when they know you stepped forward to defend their lives with your own.

The ONLY award that's worth a damn is the BROTHERHOOD.

In comparision, everything thing else is just worthless cloth and metal.

SGT US.Army, Infantry Sniper, Iraq Combat Veteran

quote:

In comparision, everything thing else is just worthless cloth and metal.

SGT US.Army, Infantry Sniper, Iraq Combat Veteran

Napoleon is credited with two often quoted statements regarding military medals.

"Soldiers usually win the battles and generals get the credit for them."

" I conquered all of Europe with a spool of ribbon."

MIKE

quote:

Originally posted by candymancan21:
I dunno it just makes me sick see'ing all these Enlisted and Warrent Officers, who serve for over 20 years have half the crap that these Officers seem to get simply because there "in command"


Have you noticed the Generals ? There in for like what 30-35 years and they have so many medals its sickening. Its like they give themselves medals.

You said it took you 18 years to get a Army Commendation. Now what rank were you ? What did you did in the Military ? I want to know what Qualifies a Colonel to have Legion of Merit's and 5 Meritorious Medals and bronze stars and all that mumbo over someone else

Do you have any idea what it means to be in command?

Ribbons and medals don't always give a good picture of a career, but it does give an idea. I have a bunch of medals and ribbons, but I have been in two branches (Air Force and Army) and I have been enlisted and officer. So in 14 years I have 1 Defense MSM (officer) 3 Air Force Commendations (enlisted) 1 Army Achievement (officer) and 1 Air Force achievement (enlisted. Those are nice but the ribbons I value most are my Iraq Campaign, Armed Forces Expeditionary (2 awards) Armed Forces Forces Service Medal (2 awards) Humanitarian Service Medal, and my Air Force Overseas Service Ribbon with an A device for Arctic service. Those awards to me represent my career best, a tour in Iraq, deployments to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bosnia, Turkey, and the Republic of Georgia and a year tour in Thule Greenland.

Bottom line, the standards are different. It's a mult-tiered system that has developed over time. I don't really agree with it. For example an AAM is to an E-4, as an ARCOM is to a LT, an MSM to a Major and A legion of Merit is to a COL. They each get a different medal for doing the important duties at their level, each being important. It's not fair but it has become the system that is used.

Another factor is LT's are typically poor award writers and their men suffer for it. This puts a lot of heat on NCO's to make sure Junior officers put their men in for awards when appropiate and to spend some time writing up a good recomendation.

quote:

Originally posted by Abisofsilence:
Bottom line, the standards are different. It's a mult-tiered system that has developed over time. I don't really agree with it. For example an AAM is to an E-4, as an ARCOM is to a LT, an MSM to a Major and A legion of Merit is to a COL. They each get a different medal for doing the important duties at their level, each being important. It's not fair but it has become the system that is used.

Another factor is LT's are typically poor award writers and their men suffer for it. This puts a lot of heat on NCO's to make sure Junior officers put their men in for awards when appropiate and to spend some time writing up a good recomendation.

Well if the PL is writing awards for anybody besides the PSG the NCOs aren't doing their job. I made sure all my Soldiers had EOT awards, and I reviewed all of them, but the only one I wrote was the PSG. The PSG wrote the squad leaders. The squad leaders wrote the team leaders and so on.

Now when I was the OIC for the units port detail in Kuwait at the start of the deployment I wrote impact awards for my entire team and they all were approved.

Dont take this wrong. There is definitely a correlation between rank and award level. That sucks. However, here is another reason to consider. Look at the very bottom row of ribbons of high ranking officers. They often look...different, right? Its because those are foreign awards earned (or "earned") while working with foreign nations. Enlisted folks rarely get the opportunity to get these.

I think Abis is on the right track. But I'd add that rank (is supposed to be) commensurate with responsibility. The criteria for a lot of the higher awards are such that below a certain rank you don't qualify by virtue of your job description. An E4 receiving an AAM is not because he is but a lowly peon, it is because an E4 is expected to perform at his skill level, and generally the job description of an E4 position will not warrant an ARCOM and certainly not an MSM. If it did, the Army should seriously consider reevaluating the TOE of that position and assigning it a higher skill level.
Do E4's and E5's get MSM+? Absolutely, but they are rare. Those that do usually receive them because they are performing duties at higher a skill level/pay grade than their rank.
And quite frankly, you shouldn't have troops doing jobs (high) above their paygrade on a regular basis unless there's a compelling reason. Not because the lower ranked is incompetent or incapable, but because that's what the higher ranks get paid to do.
Officers get a lot of flak for being rewarded for the work of others. Keep in mind that they carry the responsibility for those others' actions as well. The responsibilities of a Platoon Leader, Company Commander, Battalion Commander etc. are all vastly different. I don't know if BG Karpinski was aware of what was going on at Abu Ghraib or not, but she should have known and the actions of a couple of EM's she's never heard of cost her a star and her career.
Finally, although one award rates "higher" than another - they have to in order to standardize an order of precedence - awards are given for different reasons, so "higher" is not necessarily equal "better". The Joint Commendation and 'regular' Commendation Medals can be earned for the exact same level of performance, but the difference is that one requires assignment in a 'joint' position.

quote:

Originally posted by redleg13f:
I think Abis is on the right track. But I'd add that rank (is supposed to be) commensurate with responsibility. The criteria for a lot of the higher awards are such that below a certain rank you don't qualify by virtue of your job description. An E4 receiving an AAM is not because he is but a lowly peon, it is because an E4 is expected to perform at his skill level, and generally the job description of an E4 position will not warrant an ARCOM and certainly not an MSM. If it did, the Army should seriously consider reevaluating the TOE of that position and assigning it a higher skill level.
Do E4's and E5's get MSM+? Absolutely, but they are rare. Those that do usually receive them because they are performing duties at higher a skill level/pay grade than their rank.
And quite frankly, you shouldn't have troops doing jobs (high) above their paygrade on a regular basis unless there's a compelling reason. Not because the lower ranked is incompetent or incapable, but because that's what the higher ranks get paid to do.
Officers get a lot of flak for being rewarded for the work of others. Keep in mind that they carry the responsibility for those others' actions as well. The responsibilities of a Platoon Leader, Company Commander, Battalion Commander etc. are all vastly different. I don't know if BG Karpinski was aware of what was going on at Abu Ghraib or not, but she should have known and the actions of a couple of EM's she's never heard of cost her a star and her career.
Finally, although one award rates "higher" than another - they have to in order to standardize an order of precedence - awards are given for different reasons, so "higher" is not necessarily equal "better". The Joint Commendation and 'regular' Commendation Medals can be earned for the exact same level of performance, but the difference is that one requires assignment in a 'joint' position.

To redleg

Well what you wrote correlates to what my dad did and got. He was an E-5 or was it E-6 when he got his Meritorious Service Medal. The only things he had before that was the overseas ribbon, NCO ribbon, army service ribbon, national defense, army of occupation, good conduct medal.

I have letters and other paper's saying how he was highely recomended for promotion because he was doing Duty's beyond his paygrade and for being the OIC. His evaluation scores were always 40/40 i have all those papers. His position on the promotion list was always #1 recomended to be promoted before anyone. So it says on the letters.

He was an E-7 like only 8 years in the service which is pretty good, and in that time he earned the Army Commendation, Joint service Archievment. Then when he went to and passed the warrant officer school he was bumped up to CW2 instead of just being a W1 like most people. Then the years he was a CW2 he earned a 2nd Army Commendation. Then he was promoted to CW3 and for those years he got a 3rd Army commendation, Joint Commendation and the Defense Meritorious Medal. Then in 93 he was offered promotion for CW4 but declined and shortly retired. His friend for like 15 years took the CW4 promotion and stayed in for 3 more years. He was the OIC even back in the E-6 days hense why he got promoted so much by doing duties beyond his pay grade.

Im not trying to make this thread into why does this person have more then my dad thread its why i never mentioned him in the first post of the thread. I was simply responding to Redleg


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Back on topic to the thread .. For example. The Commander of this medical facility in texas she is a Colonel. She hasnt served anywhere special according the recored they posted of her. Yet she has Legion of Merit with 1 OLC, Meritous service medal 5 OLC, Army Commendation 3 OLC, Joint Commendation 2 OLC, 1 bronze star. The rest is what most everyone else has.

How does someone get 6 Meritorius medals lol and 2 Legion of merit's and a bronze star and be in the army for 28 years.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: candymancan21,

quote:

For example. The Commander of this medical facility in texas she is a Colonel. She hasnt served anywhere special according the recored they posted of her. Yet she has Legion of Merit with 1 OLC, Meritous service medal 5 OLC, Army Commendation 3 OLC, Joint Commendation 2 OLC, 1 bronze star. The rest is what most everyone else has.

How does someone like that get 6 Meritorius medals lol and 2 Legion of merit's and a bronze star and only be in the army for 28 years

You totally blow your argument when you start ripping apart someone else's career. Why are you complaining anyway? It looks like your dad did very well in the awards catagory.

double post

quote:

Originally posted by candymancan21:

quote:

Originally posted by azmax64:

quote:

For example. The Commander of this medical facility in texas she is a Colonel. She hasnt served anywhere special according the recored they posted of her. Yet she has Legion of Merit with 1 OLC, Meritous service medal 5 OLC, Army Commendation 3 OLC, Joint Commendation 2 OLC, 1 bronze star. The rest is what most everyone else has.

How does someone like that get 6 Meritorius medals lol and 2 Legion of merit's and a bronze star and only be in the army for 28 years

You totally blow your argument when you start ripping apart someone else's career. Why are you complaining anyway? It looks like your dad did very well in the awards catagory.

To me it seems like these people just pin themselves on the chest. I found articles talking about these high ranking officers put themselves in for awards

Im not comparing her to my dad. I only mentioned him to reply to redleg.


Maybe i should delete for what i wrote about my dad for so someone wont think im using him as a comparison. I was afraid someone was going to say that. Why would you assume i was using him as a comparison? I only posted stuff about him to reply to redleg because i was proud of the fact what my dad accomplished, because what he said is what happend to him.

I was just wondering how someone could get awarded so much like that Medical Colonel in such a short amount of time when i said only 28 years 28 years with that many awards and that many OLC's on the awards makes me wonder. I mean common 6 MSM ? How heroic can you be being in charge of a base ?


Again i was by no means using my dad and saying why oh why. I never once said that so dont say that ever again please

This message has been edited. Last edited by: candymancan21,

I'm in agreement when it comes to Officers getting combat awards. I just don't see that pointing out a certain person and jamming on their career adds to your argument. Obviously the COL you speak of has some very serious high level responsibilities. I wouldn't berate anyone for putting in (only) 28 years of service. That's what I got from your post.

Yea sorry i didnt mean to bash someone like her thats not how i was using it. I was just using her as my basis to why you know what i mean?

When i said only i ment like. For example the CSM E10 at that base has been in for 31 years. Doesnt come close to her tho. To me that means its only because she is a high ranking officer and he is just Enlisted even tho he is the Command Sergent Major.

Thats why i made the whole thread, i thought it was wierd how its like this for every officer i see on TV or read in books/internet ect.

It's hard to keep up when you edit your old posts. Most of us have seen first hand how the award system works. It is very much biased.

Sorry i have alot on my mind. So i edit alot

RE: the MSM:

I have seen the MSM awarded to NCOs and Officers who are either retiring, or moving on to another command (that entails more responsibility). So for a field grade officer to have multiple MSMs it isn't that out of line.

Have you ever seen photos of WWII officers? Some Colonels have maybe 2 or 3 rows of ribbons. Back then, awards meant something, and the pace of the conflict outstripped the formation of certain awards (usually campaign or service medals/ribbons).

My dad served 22+ years, including a 13 month tour in Vietnam. He retired an O-5 and has 11 ribbons on his rack. I also have 2 of those as well (NDSM & ASR). Dad's also got the NCOPDR and AGCM, both enlisted awards due to his time as a CPL before OCS. However, he was awarded 2 Bronze Stars with V for heroism under fire in Vietnam. To me, the V and OLC on his Bronze Star means more than a bunch of "Been There, Done That" ribbons and medals.

Prior to deployment, our PL had the same 3 ribbons on his uniform that I do-- NDSM, GWOTSM, and ASR.

Every serviceperson and his/her career are different. Yes, officers tend to rack up the fruit salad more than enlisted. But, as others have said, you have to look at command responsibilities and time in service to get a real good picture of why certain ribbons and medals are on someone's rack.

Matt
SPC, US Army
15U