quote:

Originally posted by daCAT:
yeah right, Jimmy Carter really helped us cold war troopers at the gap. (Downs Barracks, Fulda FRG 01/74-07/78)

Yeah he helped he gave the draft dodgers amisty for not reporting for the draft and guys like me were thrown out because we drank too much

Those were pretty lean times, made scrounging and procurring a necessity. Regimental formations on the quad by COL(LTG)Schwietzer would make Knucke Rockne sound like a mouse. Other commanders to the south had their Soldier's moved from the barracks to GPs on their quad to clearly understand standards. Regimental alert, saddle up and move out 1:30AM January 1st. Accomplished.

Recall being notified to appear at the Regimental Promotion Board for SSG. I was in garrison, Regiment was at Graf annual tank gunnery. Had to secure transportion from Fulda to Graf with less than 24 hours notifcation, no problem.

Only thing a Soldier looked forward to was a set of orders and a port call at RheinMain. No need for a medal, it was your duty and assignment. Be equiped and train.

quote:

No need for a medal, it was your duty and assignment. Be equiped and train.

So I guess everybody that went to Korea and did the exact same thing: Duty, Equip and Train, should give their KDSM back right?

I never went to Europe or Korea, so I really can't say what did or did not go on there but as much as I believe that everyone in Korea deserves a KDSM, I think every one in Europe deserves a EDSM, which the European Defense Veterans of America is trying to get approved.

Plus I still say the Cold War was a war and every one that served in it CONUS, OCONUS, Reserve and National Guard should receive a CWVM for that service.

Still waiting on my KDSM. Why cant the army pull up my pay reports from the time period to prove I was there. Heck I was tdy every week....oh well.

shuman 14, don't know about Korea, never had the tour (s). Yet I had plenty of 'em in USAREUR, best part of career. Got a real good understanding of what the Total Army was training for during those years. Yet my first enlistment covered the seriousness and reality of the tour to SE Asia. Experience of those Soldier's that had served in WWII, Korea, and VN established my respect in understanding of the Awards and Decorations program. Still hold that same value, as did many that served during the same time and periods of service as I did.

Return to CONUS and a 6 month hold pending further assignment, I wouldn't of thought to have gained a greater respect for those that had their assignments to SE Asia. And again while assigned to an organization within FT Hood that respect and understanding was tweeked to another level. A Soldier that had recently returned from RVN, my age, from TX was to be awarded three significant awards by III Corps Cdr; Silver Star, Air Medal w/V device and Purple Heart. The Bn CSM & S1 both combat vets, Ranger, SF, the total Soldiers, gave me the responsibility to coordinate the ceremony. It didn't happen, the Specialist simply denied the awards if a cermemony was to happen. Bottom line, it was understood and accepted by III Corps and the Soldier compeleted his commitment and ETS'd. His words to me, I was doing my job and that is what I was trained to do.

The cabbage we've created during the early 80s was a little much, possibly a marketing tool for enlistments. The Overseas Service Ribbon, recoginizes a Soldier's duty outside CONUS. Wow, isn't that what we are trained for! Assignments to exotic locations in either EUSA or USAEUR, and the purpose?

There were training accidents in both theatres, members of our Armed Forces were casualties in certain incidents carrying out their missions, many of them not offically disclosed until years latter. Yet, we were not at war, we were training to hone our skills, maintain our equipment, lead and train our Soldier's to be ready, if we were to go to war.

Many of us did so and looked no further to gratitude and appreciation than to have our orders, clearance papers, and port call to either fort living room or that CONUS assignment we dreeded. That was my recollections of three (3) tours to USAREUR five (5) assignments and 10.5 years. I did my job the best I could, appreciated and grasped the Leadership, training, and those I shared experience of the assignment.

I find no merit in recogonizing those of us that served during the Cold War. The Cold War Certifcate was a generous gesture to those that had served during that period. Let it be. I can understand and accept on why the Cold War Service Ribbon Medal failed the mean test. To my knowledge none of the Leadership that were directly involved with our training during that period ever indorsed or supported this effort to secure a service medal. If they have I'd be interested to know.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: daCAT,

quote:

I find no merit in recogonizing those of us that served during the Cold War.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I believe there is merit to it, and so do a lot of other people.

Wonder why it passed in the House version of the NDAA if many people didn't think it was appropriate?

It failed in the Senate because it was sponsored by Ms. Clinton.

No Republican will support any Bill coming from her, even if they to believe a Cold War Medal is due.

I'll keep fighting for this medal for every Cold War vet until it's award or I'm dead.

I hope the former happens before the later.

shuman 14, that's political nonsense to put the failure of the Cold War Service Medal based on an introduction and support by Hilary. I'd be more apt to fight for accountablity to our elected officals, than to accept the failure of the Cold War Service based on preceived partisanship of this award. Petty, it is better to agree that the issue is disageed upon

I do not see why we need another gong. The Cold War could be considered a campaign. However, do we need another medal for those I consider PX heros? BTW the VFW could change their entrance requirements regardless of the campaign ribbon. They already did this for Korea service.

quote:

Originally posted by Maciborski:
I do not see why we need another gong. The Cold War could be considered a campaign. However, do we need another medal for those I consider PX heros? BTW the VFW could change their entrance requirements regardless of the campaign ribbon. They already did this for Korea service.

Here's your Cold War PX hero, you SOB!!

I'm all for the CWM, my days were spent in the armored cav conducting border surv, this sh*t does nothing but pizz me off !

Kurdjos,

Have you joined the CWVA? If not, you should.

Have you written, e-mailed, or called your Congressman and Senators and asked them to support the respective CWVM Bills in the House and Senate?

Not knit picking, but if you feel that way, join us, help us, and we'll get the CWVM passed.

Havent joined sir. I am interested, if you would, please send me the in the right direction.

quote:

Originally posted by kurdjos:
Havent joined sir. I am interested, if you would, please send me the in the right direction.

Not a problem, here you go:

Cold War Veterans Association Homepage

CWVA Online Forum

Department of Veterans Affairs, CWVA Information page

Hope this helps and hope to see you on board soon.

quote:

Originally posted by deddygetty1:

quote:

Originally posted by Maciborski:
I do not see why we need another gong. The Cold War could be considered a campaign. However, do we need another medal for those I consider PX heros? BTW the VFW could change their entrance requirements regardless of the campaign ribbon. They already did this for Korea service.

Here's your Cold War PX hero, you SOB!!

deddygetty1, keep your emotions in check and DO NOT make any more personal attacks such as the above. Maciborski did not attack you and your attack on him was unwarranted and will not be tolerated. This is your only warning.

Well, I'll say this. My grandfather served in the Army Air Corps during WWII and was shot down over France. He survived and escaped. He was a war hero. He remained in and went Air Force after the war when it was transferred over and retired after 20 years. My gradnfather was a war veteran.

Now jump ahead. My father enliste din teh Army in 1981, at the height of the Cold War during the 1980's and remained in until 2001. My father never saw a second of combat and was never even deployed overseas (unless you want to count his "overseas" stations of Hawaii and Alaska!) So don't tell me for a moment that my father is some "war-hero" or "war-veteran" because he served for 20 years sitting behind a desk for the most part at a hospital as an NCO medic.

Now, to the present. My brother commissioned medical service corps in 1998 and became a medevac pilot in the Army. He was deployed to Irag in 2002 and was shot down. Several on board were killed and and my brother luckily survived, although he underwent surgery and has amnesia from it. My brother would be awarded the Bronze Star with Valor for what happened and would continue flying for another tour. My brother, like my grandfather, is a war-hero, a war-veteran.

These men who served like my father though, during the "Cold War" are not WAR-heroes or WAR veterans. I respect them and do consider them, like most soldiers, to be heroes, but certainly not war-veterans.

So as for the VFW, I see no reason there should be all these exceptions made.

gallagheria,
hooah! Appreciate your family's fine tradition of Selfless Service..

>Now jump ahead. My father enliste din teh Army in 1981, at the height of the Cold War during the 1980's and remained in until 2001. My father never saw a second of combat and was never even deployed overseas (unless you want to count his "overseas" stations of Hawaii and Alaska!) So don't tell me for a moment that my father is some "war-hero" or "war-veteran" because he served for 20 years sitting behind a desk for the most part at a hospital as an NCO medic.

One must remember the members of the military that served during the Cold War that did serve overseas, and were killed or wounded in action.

The VFW claims there were 382 fatalities. There were an unknown number wounded.

Records reveal the majority of the casualties occurred during the early period of the Cold War. (9 May 1945 to 25 April 1962).

Because guidelines up to 25 April 1962 required an "enemy" to be the cause of the death or wounds, military personeel were not authorized recognition, the Purple Heart.

However, 26 April 1962 to 26 December 1991 all casulaties experienced by a foreign hostile act were authorized recognition.

As the son of an American that chose to serve his country regardless the circumstances should make you proud. Obviously, to you, he should be as much as a hero as anyone.

Robert

The below quote is part of a discussion thread in the Military History Forum under the "General History" topics. I believe it makes the point of why there should be a Cold War Medal,

quote:

I hate to correct you, but the American Defense Service Medal (ADSM) was awarded for service 1939-1941 for 12 months of Active Service with the US Army or for any Active Service (IE 1 day) with the Navy, Marines, or Coast Guard.

It was awarded for the hightened state of alert and combat readiness that was taking place during the lead up to our entry into WWII. (Which, by the way, is very similar what happened during most of the Cold War.)

I believe you have it confused with the American Campaign Medal (ACM) which was awarded for 30 days service in the American Theater or one CONUS service. While a combat award of this medal is likely, many shots fired between our Naval Services and U-boats and Condors and Japanese forces in our hemisphere, it was not required. Most personnel earned it prior to being shipped out overseas.

Also, the only devices authorized on the National Defense Service Medal (NDSM) are Bronze Service Stars for the Periods: 1950-1954, 1961-1974, 1990- 1995, and 2001-TBD. No "Battle Stars" are authorized.

As to a Cold War Victory Medal, servicemembers sometimes don't get to choose where or when they will serve. There will always be "Stateside" assignments. Those who serve there fill important roles that helped with National defense and to victory in WWII and the Cold War and is leading to that victory in the current War on Terror.

The ADSM, ACM, NDSM, and GWOTSM honor those that do these thankless jobs that help win wars.

Look at it this way, the Cold War had campaigns and those campaigns have service medals (MFHA, KSM, KDSM, VSM, NDSM) just like WWII. What the Cold War Doesn't have is a victory medal. Both World Wars do (WWIVM, WWIIVM).

Neither one of these medals required one day of combat service, just service during the war, which in and of itself, helped win those wars.

We won the Cold War, the USSR and the Warsaw Pact are no more, most are friendly allies now, we WERE the victors.

The Government has conceeded this by the issue of the Cold War Service Certificate.

But that Certificate is disrespectful to veterans, one it's NOT a military award (every civil servant gets it too), and two it's not a medal, which IS the standard, normal, thanks-for-your-service recognition given in all militaries, world wide.

So follow my logic regarding WWII, the Cold War and the War on Terror:

ADSM = NDSM

American CM = GWOTSM

APCM, EAMECM = MFHA, KSM, KDSM, VSM = GWOTEM, ICM, Afghanistan CM

WWIIVM = Cold War Victory Medal = War on Terror Victory Medal (When we win, and we will!)

It's not about boot camp, it's not about overseas service, it's not about combat, it's about appropriate recognition of servicemembers during times of National Crisis.

And that's why there needs to be a Cold War Victory Medal.

I'd also like to point out that I don't think membership into the VFW should be allowed for just serving during the Cold War, but those that did serve overseas during the Cold War should be allowed to join.

I'm not a member of the VFW (or the Legion or AmVets either) so I have no real say in the matter, but that's my thoughts on that anyways.

shuman14, I've always ''saluted' you as a Soldier. Always respected your career and tenure, I'd be willing to Soldiered with you. We've come to a juncture on this subject many times, point's taken. P/CP had been engaged with little repetition. Points have been discussed, some with comparison, and that is where we agree to disagree.

The Cold War was a continuation of unfinished stuff, WWII! And old 'blood & guts' was right, right? We ended up in an apathetic state of defense on both continents, VE Day was declared, and all that were able to do went back to the good old USA. Following the agreement and restructure of Europe, Soldier's trained to defend from Ivan and some were casualties. While in the other contintent the other fight for democracy or the threat of communism involved 'combat'! Those that paid with injury, disablity, or the ultimate sacrice did so in a recognized 'combat' enviroment. Those are combat veterans of our Cold War.

Those of us that were members of the Armed Forces and not directly assigned to a 'combat zone' are not combat veterans. We had the privilge and honor to Serve and Support those that had paid the price and been assigned to a 'combat zone'.

We are members and Veterans of a Combat era.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: daCAT,