I know Norwich Cadets have a mountaineering group up there who wears those pins on their covers. Mountain Cold Weather Rescue Company or some sorts.
Find a way to get in touch with Norwich Cadets and I'm sure one of them will tell you how they get theirs. Pretty sure its made locally for them.
TRADOC picked up the AMWS
its one two week phase, either summer or winter. No one is getting grandfathered in. So your a 1 phase deal now. The new pilot course just took place earlier this month.
Also, I am looking for a BDU sew on version of the Rams Head- I will pay for one of these! please PM or e-mail me at email@example.com if you are willing to do a monetary or other item trade for one of these- Perhaps someone doesn't mind cutting off their old BDU badge and selling it to me.
Confirmed. It's a one phase course, now.
I just got off the phone with SFC Kontos at the Army Mountain Warfare School. He forwarded me the permanent orders from the Vermont J-1
Here are some better images of Ira Green's Ram's Head Devices
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rochambeau,
So you only need one phase for the ramshead and echo identifer?
The orders read that you need both summer and winter.
No one said that. Look at the date of the order. We were just talking about the SQI E. The Ram's Head Device orders are different. Who knows whether they'll allow people that get the SQI to wear the badge, too.
I'm in the 3/172 IN, Yes Mountain Warfare School has been condensed to one phase but those who have taken one phase already have to take the other traditional phase. How it was explained to be by a Senior NCO was that it was done in order to get more people through. So that the Army's only Specialized Mountain Infantry Brigade has a higher ratio of soldiers with the E qualification
I'm a former member of 3/172nd Infantry (Mountain) and completed summer and winter in 2000 and 2001. I was curious if you have completed the new consolidated phase yet or do you know how it compares to the old two-phase system. Old timers like me are wondering how the POI now works when they used to teach subjects that were unique to a season or a phase, like ice climbing and skiing in the winter, for example. I'm wondeirng how this works.
If I know AMWS, I'm guessing the usual will remain: Altimeter land nav, knots, knots, knots, systems, humping, and bivouac. Maybe more tactics will be thrown in with an OPORD and a sand table or two.
I miss the 3/172nd. I'm in a reserve drill sergeant unit now. Ascend to Victory.
So can I wear the ramshead even though I'm in the Ohio National Guard? I heard different things. Some people say only the New England states can and then other people have said and national guard graduate can.
Can some one help clarify this for me?
Pumpkin_Shrapnel, I've just graduated the new two week phase, but my unit is also going to send me to the winter phase as well, so after I finish the winter one I can tell exactly whats the same and whats different.
I know they added animal packing, and well searches. I also heard that systems will be in the winter phase, where as previously classes before tradoc picked it up there wasn't.
|Highly Experienced Member|
It will vary from State to State, each has their own regulations in regards to what can and cannot be worn on their uniforms.
Generally, most States allow for the wear of other States awards and decorations on their uniforms.
Check your State's uniform and/or award regulation for the correct answer.
|"A Marine on duty has no friends."|
If you go on Title 10 Active duty, it comes off...
I'm right there with you on the sarcasm/jealousy thing. All NWTC cadre wear the mountain tab over the rank on old school OD PCs (at least that was my observation). The wool shirts (itchy-scratchies) are worn out of tradition. The woodland pattern field-pants I'm pretty sure are just to make them look more special. It's been a while since I attended a class there and they may have switched it up since then, not really sure.
I had the priviledge of attending both CWLC and BMC through NWTC here in Alaska and did get the "E" SQI. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING COURSES! I don't know about VT - mabe it gets down to minus40ish degrees F for their winter classes too... :-P Both courses were 2 weeks, but CWLC often gets cut short if they dont have enough snow on the slopes to do the full ski program. In the summer we rucked straight up those blasted ski hills. Temperate ACU boots worked great for me. Only 1 blister the whole time.
They made mention of the NG badge to the extent that it exists and is a NG badge, but other than forums like this I haven't heard anything concerete about getting the ram's head approved for Active Army Soldiers with the mountain SQI. I wish it would. It's pretty distinctive to have the identifier as even Soldiers who are stationed up here have a tough time getting to both schools. I think a pile of slots for BMC get filled by West Point cadets - about half of my class was at least.
Where can I find documention for authorization to wear? I have graduated both courses about 2 years ago. I am a PA Guardsman. Not sure on how to look up state recognized awards and whether or not my state will allow other state awards. thanks.
Different States administer their regulations differently. Does Pennsylvania have a PAARNG Regulation 600-8-22 or similar publication? If not it is a question for the one that sets the State's National Guard uniform: the State Sergeant Major (via your 1st line leader - 1SG - CSM of course).
Ira Green is now selling the Ram's Head Device right on their website. Look under Army Badges.
The Sta-Black version is $11.30. Yikes.
Anyone herd any rumors about this ever becoming a DA approved device?
|Suspended for disrupting the Army Forums.|
Completed summer phase in 2002 while in KYARNG.
I am currently in the national guard and have two guys in my infantry company that have recieved the device. i will take a pic at drill and post it on this discussion as soon as i can so people can see it.
There has been quite a lot of discussion as to whether the new course is a good or bad thing. Bottom line is TRADOC made the change, the schoolhouse had to conform, and now more basically trained military mountaineers are being produced while we are still fighting in Afghanistan. You will still learn a ton in one two week phase and if thats not enough for you go back for the Advanced Climber course or their other "specialty" courses.
It also needs to be said that the school doesnt mean much unless the graduates practice those skills and are allowed to teach them to other soldiers, which in almost any unit other than 3-172 IN simply does not happen (SF and 75th excluded).
Its a great school and it opens people's eyes to how a military school can, and in my opinion, should be run. If you are not a mature, physically fit, mentally tough, and moderately intelligent person you probably wont make it through.
As far as wearing the rams head...I've been in 3-172 IN for a bit now, every once and a while a CSM or 1SG not in the know will get a hair across his #$% and grill you about it when you have it on outside of VT, NH, or ME. Usually about the time when you tell them you can wear a badge but they cannot...but even at most AD posts and schools people are more interested in the school, the 86th BDE patch with the mountain tab (because only 10th MTN wears a MTN tab right?), and rams head device than anything else because they have never heard about it.
If you want to do something interesting in the ARNG world, and you live in New England, I highly suggest checking out the 3-172 IN. There are rifle companies in VT, NH, and ME and HQ and HHC are in VT.
I participated in the pilot 2 week Winter course in 2009. It was still good training, but different in a way. I did the summer phase in 2008 and that was a really challenging course, and from what I heard the winter phase was supposed to be easier (Since before there were less systems to test on in the winter) However now they tested systems in the winter phase as well. I did notice they added more time to the tests and don't test other things, but maybe they re-adjusted it back to the older standards after 2009.
The Vermont Mountain Warfare School, in my opinion, is better than the Active Duty counter part. You receive more equipment per mountain buddy team then you do as a Squad at the Northern Warfare Training Center. I went to the Norther Warfare Training Center's Basic Mountaineer Course a month after doing the summer phase in Vermont. While Alaska has much better terrain and training areas to offer, the Vermont School house seemed to have better funding and their instructors are National Guard- meaning they don't rotate out every few years like an active duty e-6 does in TRADOC. The instructors at the mountain warfare school in Vermont obviously had more experience and had been there for a while.
Either way both courses had a lot to offer, not to shun one against the other, but I was most impressed by the level of skill Vermont had to offer.
I have yet to be able to attend Assault Climber at either place, but hopefully one day I will be able to see what that is all about.
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