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New Member |
**Edited to explain better**
Looking for any information on the Ramshead device skill badge. Ramshead device, awarded to military mountaineers SQI "E" in the VT National Guard. SQI "E" or Military Mountaineer is also awarded to Regular Army soldiers after completing summer and winter Mountain Warfare courses. However the device its self is a ( last I knew) only a guard award so only worn by national guard with the SQI "E". I'v had a interest in this ever since I joined the Army and have found really no information at all about the device. I find it funny I never knew much about Army Mountain Warfare School or mountain warfare at all despite spending lots of my childhood on the very mountains the school trains on. Since I've been in I done a little research here and there and found some very interesting things about the Army's mountain history but no info about this particular device. Any help info appreciated, pics would help to as many have never seen the badge, I have but have no pics to post. Thanks This message has been edited. Last edited by: crashtdi, |
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Member |
I heard several years ago about a Ram's Head badge that was awarded to guys in the 10th MTN DIV, but it was not an officially authorized badge. Guys received it when graduating military mountaineering school but it wasn't authorized for wear. I also hear the 10th MTN wore a grey beret in the late '60s early '70s. I don't know if either of those is true, and I've never found any pics or articles indicating the veracity of said info. $2 word.
The National Guard is a little different than Active Duty because each state has certain awards, decorations, and I'm guessing tabs and badges. I did see an Alaska ARNG LTC with an "Expert Scout" tab over his SSI. I'm sure that is strictly for wear by National Guard soldiers. I'm guessing if a soldier in the Guard changed over and went Regular Army he would have to take those state acoutrements off his uniform. I'm sure someone else in here can back me up or shoot me down. |
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Will try to post a photo of my BDU top and Class A's.
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New Member |
Thank you, I've acually found the 38th's site before, one of the few I've found.
I've seen the ramshead device before as I'm from VT and grew up on the other side of the mountain from where the Army Mountain Warfare School is. I would appreciate the images anyway as I've only seen it in person. Anyone have more information on the device its self? I've found the forums talking about making it a Regular Army award and making the Mountain tab a skill tab before, but nothing on just the device its self. Honestly I don't know why they don't, being a mountaineer is alot more technical that other things badges are awarded for. I also don't understand why call a unit a mountaiin unit just for heritage, just start training them to be mountaineers, or rotate people who already are back into the unit. anyway, i'll save that argument for those forums.. |
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New Member |
The Ram's Head is given to graduates who pass both summer and winter phases of Mountain Warfare School. It is a TRADOC approved course but the badge is not DA approved. When I was there only the Mountain Batallion [3/172 IN (MT)] soldiers wore it, though I don't remember it being specifically approved.
https://www.benning.army.mil/AMWS/ Here is a good article about mountain warfare: http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/realmountaindivision.htm |
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The Alaska ARNG used to be structured around an old system of scout teams. It has only recently changed. We used to have scout tabs and some grey berets. When I got in in 2002 we still worked in 5 man teams, practicing scouting and arctic ops. With the Iraq war, the AK guard was quickly restructured to fit the current needs of the army.
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Ummm, 10th Mountain Division didnt EXIST during the 1960's-1970's, it was reformed in 1984
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Ummm, you got me there. At least I did say it was hearsay.
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Moderator Marine Forums "A Marine on duty has no friends."  |
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thats the point there is practically no info on this. Other than in person I've never seen it on the web.
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I asked the same thing, it must have been 3 or 4 years ago now. I had only heard about it, I had never seen it. I ran into the same thing you did- Nothing. It was like the thing didn't exist. Someone who lived in the Vermont area, was good enough to scan a picture of the Ramshead device. He said he was stoppin in at the Mountain School, I don't remember if he was serving in the VTNG or not. The thread has since been drop. Is there an archive that can be accessed or are the dropped threads just deleted? I looked on my HD hoping I'd saved it, but no luck.
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New Member |
There was a string a while back with pictures but that seems to have been deleted.
If I have a picture of it on my computer how can I post it here? It's asking me to give a URL. Badge is nicknamed the "Pricess Leia" because the ram's horns look like her hair-do. This message has been edited. Last edited by: ghcooper, |
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yea i just dropped my 4187 to get the school. my 0-5 just signed off on it so hopefully i get the slot this winter. I agree that the rams head shoud be DA approved. if you learn a special skill like pathfinder or air assault then there should be a badge for it. its strange that it being an infantry tradoc school the badge isnt allowed. they let audie murphy, st barbaras(artillery) and other Class A only decorations, so i think they shoould allow the rams head. yes i would like to see some pics of it as well.
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It certainly seems like it would be just as valid a badge to permit on the uniform as the Air Assault badge. If memory serves, the guys in Alaska assigned to the Northern Warfare Training Center were allowed to wear a Mountain tab on their PC's after finishing both phases of Military Mountaineering.
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New Member |
The Ram's Head is a state badge, issued by Camp Ethan Allen. It is not a qualifying school for an officially recognized ASI. The device, while manufactured at state expense and issued to graduates, is not authorized for wear on any Army uniform. The TAG for Vermont used to try to allow it to be worn by his/her troops. Unfortunately, the DCSPER or G1 for the U.S. Army is the only approving authority for changes to AR 670-1.
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The Rams Head is a state award issued by 4 states, (Vermont/Rhode Island/Maine/New Hampshire) for completion of BOTH phases of Mountain Warfare School. It is authorized for wear on a US Army uniform, IF your in the National Guard, just like the rest of our state awards. It is not an ASI qualifier, but it is a SQI "E" qualifier. Also, in the 3/172 we wore the Mountain Tab on our PC's above our rank, once we had both phases completed.
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Have you taken that picture yet of the Ramshead? |
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New Member |
I'm in the IRR now, but there was a SGT in my PSYOP reserve unit who had completed the two phases. He wore the rams head on his class-A's but said he couldn't find a place to buy the subdued pin for his ACU's.
He might have been violating regs, he had to argue with people about it all the time. He also tried to wear the Mountain Tab, but that just wouldn't fly. Sorry, I don't have a pic. I have the guys number I think, maybe I'll give him a call. |
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Ive got the picture but I cant get it to post... Still working on it. I cant understand how I can do it all the time for ebay items and it wont post right on here!
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