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Military.com Forums Army Discussions Army Awards and Uniforms Another SSI-FWTS Question|
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New Member |
I was reading through the Army's new SSI-FWTS policy:
http://www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/uniform/docs/SSI-FWTS%20A...ssage%20055-2007.pdf And have a question. The unit I'm in wears the state HQ patch. We're a Det. of a unit in a nother state that wears a Division patch. We're scheduled to be deployed with a CAB from yet another division who has their own patch. On top of that, we're probably going to be serving with the Marines in western Iraq. So, based on that, what SSI-FWTS would I be authorized? |
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Moderator Marine Forums "A Marine on duty has no friends." Experienced Member  |
Marine patch/"insignia" is OUT of the question.
That I can say for sure. from AR 670-1 28–17. Shoulder sleeve insignia-former wartime service (SSI–FWTS)
and
No Marine patch......why? Because Marines don't wear patches these days (minus airwingers). The only reason the Army received "permission" to wear the Marine patch is basically one Army General begged another Marine General to wear the 1stMARDIV insignia which isn't even worn by Marines of any rank or MOS.....in a sense the Army wears something Marines do not even wear.....which is pretty odd if you ask me. I'm glad it is relegated to one operation. My guess is because the General wanted some bling for him and his troops....lol whatever. Yes it is an honor thing, I believe it......but then reality sets in....and the Army likes to be different with new "stuff" for their uniform. SO please remove the Marine insignia from your equation, and spread the word. |
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Member Member  |
Chief
Para 7 & 8 pretty much sum it up so be flexible. Unless another ALARACT message comes out authorizing a Marine pacth I wouldn't expect one. As of today the 1ST MD is the only pacth allowed and that period has expired. |
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Member Member |
OK now be nice! The Army begging the MARINE corp for a patch, Nah! didn't happen. The MARINES wanted to say thanks you and an Army General requested the Aproval to show ARMY -MARINE togetherness..... I run into more MARINES in the Army wearing 2'd Marine Div. patches and CIB's that tell me that they are entitled becuase they have CAR's and were attached to the Army for a period of time. |
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New Member |
The 224th Engineers in the Iowa ARNG are authorized to wear the 2nd MARDIV patch as well.
http://spanky.thehawkeye.com/Features/224/2242_0906.html "For the 224th Engineer Battalion, July 31 was a historic day. The soldiers were given the honor of wearing the 2nd Marine Division 'combat patch' on their shoulders. One officer suggested having the oldest soldier present a patch to Jacobus and the youngest soldier give one to Command Sgt. Major Richard Bayliss, the top enlisted man in the battalion. But Mozingo was on leave and Reynolds was on a mission, so the job went to the second oldest and second youngest." http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=B44ECF...B22-B253D32A531E31DE "He says their main job was to support the Second Marine Division. Hapgood says the Second Marine Division was so impressed that they made the Iowans honorary members and awarded them their combat patch -- something he says is unprecedented. " This message has been edited. Last edited by: HwkDriver, |
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Member Experienced Member |
The Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard allow prior service members who were awarded the CIB, CMB, and CAB to exchange those badges for a CAR. There is NOT, I say again, there is NOT a similar exchange of the CAR for a CIB. Tell those soldiers they are wrong. They do get to continue wearing the CAR on an Army uniform. |
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Moderator Marine Forums "A Marine on duty has no friends." Experienced Member |
1SG, I apologize for being shortsighted in the issue....but...I think you are right...
Shuman once again is correct.....you can't "trade-in" a CAR to get a CIB......wrong answer. and to HWKDriver, just because you are "awarded" something, does not mean you can wear it........ That is one problem I think the Guard will always have........wearing items of heraldry the Army says (on paper) they can't. Just like the Airforce badge for anything....it can be awarded, but not worn on a Marine uniform....same difference..... And I think the regulation is pretty clear. Nice story and I appreciate the symbolism and I'm sure they earned "it", but once again I would like to know "who" said they could wear it. A newpaper article tells the story well, but does NOT say it is authorized...... A LTCOL? pffft. Good initiative, good judgement, bad regulation interpretation. The above equals bad for soldiers. |
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Member |
Hate to say it - Active duty soldiers are just as guilty as the Guard in assuming that just because they are 'awarded' something or the army recognizes it as an acceptable award, it is automatic approval to add it to their uniform. Various other uniform fads, for lack of a better word, have come and gone. For a while you had the ACU pattern covering the entire velcro on sleeves until it again had to be squashed. Mainly because soldiers follow the "it doesn't say you can't, so I'll do what looks cool until someone tells me to knock it off'. Company and Battalion commanders don't help when they don't realize that their discretion does not reach that far and approve it, or worse, hand stuff out in ceremonies. Even SMA Preston was wearing a 'combat reversed' 11th ACR SSI-FWTS patch until DA sent out the nastygram telling everyone it's a change in design and therefore not authorized.
As far as Marine patches go... I don't say much to troops about those because so many memorandums are floating around about those, I can't intelligently say that I know for sure the troop isn't authorized it. I have had students with MEF patches (I always thought the Army only accepted MARDiv patches), but what am I going to do? Tell him he can't? He'll look at me and say "No offense, but my O-5 said I can wear this, so some E7 isn't telling me otherwise" Then there are those trying the 'AAFES sells it, so it must be authorized' excuse.  |
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Member Member |
Chief I hate to tell you this ut the 2nd MARINE DIV patch is not authorized period no matter what any COC says, You can accept the patch in a ceromony and put it on you fire place mantel but the Army has said no to wearing it on your uniform. The only approved MARINE patch was the 1st MARINE DIV patch for the listed period. While it might fly back home, you will run into a COC that tells you to take it off.
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New Member |
I'm not wearing the 2nd MARDIV patch. But those that do work in the state JFHQ and so far no ones said anything.
We've got a guy in my Medevac unit that wears a full color MEF patch, a guy who wears the acu velcro covers, another guy who the old division patch rather than the state HQ patch we're supposed to wear. But we don't do formations or wear headgear at drill anyway, so what does it matter? |
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Member Member |
When you are at your units it usualy isn't a big deal because nobody sees you and you set a bad precedence with the troops. When you deploy with another unit and you run into folks that enforce the regulations it will be a big deal. You have Soldiers that spend hard earned money on things they can wear and they get attitudes when an NCO makes an OTSC even when they are wrong and the NCO is right. A few years ago as well as in the late 70's the 1st ID was wearing full collor FWTS-SSI, while I agree with the intent they were in violation of the regs, their entire COC was supporting the violation until recently when they were told in clear and direct terms to STOP. We have enough uniform issues as it is without adding to the growing disregard for the regs.
As for MARINE patches the only patch that was recently authorized was the 1st MARINE DIV patch. That was only fater teh MARINE TWO STAR MG Matis requested that the ARMY be allowed to wear the MARINE Patch. LTG Hagenback (ARMY) granted approval after the COS requested LTG Hagenback to re examine the issue. |
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Member |
At first I thought it was odd that they left out the Coast Guard (although it seems to happen often). Until I came across a couple of photos of RAID Team IV just back from Iraq...
I guess the USCG is starting to allow SSI. |
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Moderator: Joining The Military Forums "Let's Go!" Experienced Member  |
They're probably kind of like our JTACs... when they were with us, they wore 82nd SSIs and SSI-FWTS. When they're in their USAF uniforms other than BDUs, they didn't wear them.
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Member |
Our guys out in Rawah were allowed to wear the 3d Marine patch. Don't know who authorized it or at what level of leadership, but shortly after we got back to the States word came down that the guys had to take the Marine patch off.
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Member |
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Member |
And the USCG Recruiter told me that I would have to loose weight, that the USCG did not do BF%, and that the USCG was very strict on it weight and PT standards...
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Member |
My unit, 2/224th AVN, is allowed (from the highest levels) to wear on the right shoulder MAG16, 3D MAW, or 1MEF Marine patches. This was due to my BN serving as an operational "squadron" under MAG16 in Iraq in 2006, Anbar Province, at Al Asad and TQ. This was given to us by the Marines as a way to honor our performance while supporting the mission. They were proud to offer it, and we were very proud to accept it. Big Army (GEN Cody) gave it's approval very quickly. To our knowledge, it's the only time an Army aviation BN has served as an operational unit directly under command of a Marine unit. I wear it with some pride, as you could imagine.
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New Member |
With all due respect, unless it's being included in a new revision of AR 670-1 or "highest levels" means Chief of Staff of the Army, no, you aren't. FEM posted the reg that flatly prohibits it in the second post in this thread. |
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Member |
Understood, but I was informed that the Chief of Staff did approve it, and my BN CDR has the exemption letter from him. We are a rare exception to the policy, due to the circumstances involved and the attention it got. We go through this a lot, as one would expect.
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Moderator Marine Forums "A Marine on duty has no friends." Experienced Member |
eh...
they should just allow everyone in the Army to wear things Marines don't......... I will believe it when I see it....but in all fairness the 670-1 needs to be revamped.... Why hasn't G-1 put out the policy on USMC patches that they don't even wear yet......? ok I will concede....only USMC wingers wear patches and thats only because the Navy does.... I doubt though through experience in the Army reserve on active duty in 2 theatres of ops that if someone says their BC says they can wear it.....especially if it is has a bling factor to it...that they really can't but they have been told by higher ups that they could....but they really can't because the higher ups are so high no one will challenge them......because of careerist attitudes... Im not saying nobody rates anything....I have a few awards that weren't given by the Army; they are State Department Awards while I was in the Marines.....and they had a bling factor as well....but usually I don't believe anything until I see it in writing.... So if you would sir (Hawk), let us all see the memo......I'm sure its not a National Security matter....... You said you have memo....so show it. |
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Military.com Forums Army Discussions Army Awards and Uniforms Another SSI-FWTS Question
