I got "corrected" after a board the other day about wearing jump wings under my CIB and over my ribbons on my ASU uniform. With 3 badges on my pocket already, that's where I put my wings. I've read 670-1 and can't seem to find anywhere in the reg stating that a class 4 or 5 badge cannot be worn above the ribbons with a Class 1 badge, i.e. my CIB. Anyone read otherwise?
|Highly Experienced Member|
What you did is what I would do if I had CIB and AB wings Who did the correcting? What was on your pocket?
I'm just curious, because I always wore my AASLT wings on top. I had troops that put their wings and bolo badges on their pocket flap, while having nothing on top. Always thought that was weird.
CIB and ABN above ribbons, AASLT, PFDR, and Expert Rifle on pocket.
And one of the 1SG at the board
I know 670-1 says "If no badges from groups 1-3 are worn you may wear up to 3 badges from groups 4 and 5 above the ribbons". That doesn't say you don't wear and group 4 or 5 badges above the ribbons with a group 1 when your pocket is filled up. I think I'm just gonna drop the Expert Rifle.
It does say, "When no badges from groups 1 through 3 are worn, personnel may wear a total of three combat and special skill badges from groups 4 and 5 above the ribbons"
While there is no specific provision mentioned in the reg either approving or prohibiting wearing group 4 or 5 badges above the ribbons with a group 1, 2, or 3 badge, how the 1SG addressed you is generally how the reg is interpreted.
If you have a group 1, 2, or 3 badge, that is worn above the ribbons no matter what, then you wear group 4 or 5 badges on the pocket flap. Only when you don't have a group 1, 2, or 3 badge is when you wear any group 4 or 5 badge above the ribbons. Like I said, it's not spelled out specifically in the reg, but if that's what one of your 1SG's is telling you, then just make the switch.
|Highly Experienced Member|
Could be because you were wearing five badges?
I thought four badges period was the max authorized?
Two above, two below
one above, three below
Shuman, the maximum number of badges is as such.
Maximum of five (5) skill or combat badges, marksmanship badges are not counted against this total.
One (1) each from group 1, 2 and 3.
Three (3) from group 4.
Two (2) from group 5.
|Highly Experienced Member|
Six badges, counting a qual badge, is A LOT of bling.
Well you shouldn't see too many of those. It would be pretty hard to be able to pull off 5 badges plus a marksmanship badge, mostly because of the limitations on how many in each group you can wear. Literally the only way you could do that is if you owned one badge from each group 1, 2 and 3, and two badges from group 4 and/or 5.
Being on Bragg and around USASOC and SWC&S I've seen plenty of long tabbers sporting quite a few badges, but I've only met one guy with five. He sported an EIB, aircrew wings, Airborne, Air Assault and Free Fall. He started out as an 11B in the 82nd (Airborne, EIB), then moved on to Division LRS (MFF), later reclassed to aviation (aircrew wings) and somewhere along the way got to Air Assault school. Even still, he can't wear all of that on his A's with a marksmanship badge.
If you look at the Army.mil ASU website it shows in the official Army photos, a 1SG with a Class 4 badge above his ribbons with either a CIB or an EIB, I don't remember which. If I was wrong then so was the Army itself.
Surf Monkey, BTDT, Painkiller
Erik gave you the way the reg is generally interpreted.
If you already knew the answer...then why waste everyones time to ask the question? Unless you simply wanted to gripe in a public forum.
You may try printing out that photo, then approaching your 1SG in a manner of:
"Good morning 1SG. I understand your on the spot correction of my uniform, however, I felt I was correct based on THIS PHOTO from the Army's official website. Can you help me out on where I am am misunderstanding the proper wear of my badges?"
You would get a LOT farther than coming here and getting opinions and interpretations from people who aren't in your chain of influence.
look up AR670-1 figure 29-52. It specifically shows your setup as authorized.
Expert Medic Badge isn't a class 4 or 5 badge.
As far as already knowing the answer, I didn't. I thought I did and I looked it up in the regs and couldn't find anything other than what I stated previously. I understood how the regs could be read and interpretted but then I see the picture. As you can read above, there are two different interpretations of the reg so obviously I'm not the only one confused. Besides, I found the picture after the original post. So giving that Erik's general interpretation is that it isn't authorized and the picture would say it is. I guess we're right back to where we started.
Surf Monkey, BTDT, Painkiller
I see you completely disregarded the second part of my post.
Checking your profile photo I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though I am given your listed rank.
Seems every time I venture back here to the mil.com boards, I realize why I generally stay far far away. Probably a better place for me.
The order of precedence is Group 1, Group 2, Group 3, Group 4, Group 5.
You are authorized 5 combat and special skill badges.
You are ONLY authorized 3 badges on your pocket.
Group 1: CIB
Group 4: Parachutist Badge, Air Assault, Pathfinder
Expert Marksmanship Badge
There is no order of preference from within the same group.
So it's simple Math. Your marksmanship badge has to go on your pocket. Then you can put your Pathfinder and Air Assault on your pocket, your jump wings above your ribbons, and your CIB above that.
The figure I posted demonstrates that you can put 2 badges above your ribbons. There isn't anywhere that says "you can only put Class 1, 2, and 3 badges above your ribbons" just like there isn't one that says "you can't put class 4 or 5 badges above your ribbons.
You want clarification on why your board member corrected you, bring a copy of the reg and ask him to show you. Unless he has an ALARACT in his pocket indicating otherwise, he is wrong.
You missed this part...
"When no badges from groups 1 through 3 are worn, personnel may wear a total of three combat and special skill badges from groups 4 and 5 above the ribbons"
I saw it, but that is more of an explanation as far as what you can wear above ribbons in the absence of a Group 1-3 award.
I couldn't find anything in the AR limiting Group 4-5 awards when a Group 1-3 award is present.
And you won't, you also won't find anything authorizing it, which is what the regulations do, hence the most common interpretation of it.
You have Airborne in your name, if you ever spent any time in the 82nd, in the past 5 years where CIB/CAB and jumpwings are common, you would know what I'm talking about.
I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or right, just saying it's the most common interpretation and how that could be. I don't care either way, I can fit all four of my badges on my uniform either way.
Considering your attitude I'd say the question you ask yourself is justified sir. Why would you log on to a forum put here to help people out and assume the role of troll? And wtf does my picture have to do with anything? It's a relevant question obviously, with everyone having different interpretation and insight. As far as the pic in 670-1 with the Expert Medic Badge above the ribbons, it does in fact state in the reg that up to 1 badge each from groups 1-3 can be worn above the ribbons. And figure 29-52 shows that. What it doesn't show anywhere in the reg is a class 4 or 5 badge above the ribbons with a class 1-3. That, along with the wording of the reg is a pretty strong argument against wearing it. The pictures though on the .mil website on ASUs though says otherwise. But we all know that the Army has put out pictures before that went against 670-1 i.e. ACU regs etc etc. So yes, I ignored your suggestion to take the picture so my 1SG because it's not a very good idea. Thanks for the advice though sir. What I was looking for I guess would be someone to actually look at the reg themselves and give me their interpretation or if someone knew some other message or ALARACT that explained it better to point me in the right direction. I tend to take pride in my uniform, not saying you don't, and I just want to be sure I'm squared away. To play it safe and to ensure that my uniform isn't against someone's interpretation of the reg I'll just lose the Expert Rifle Badge. Problem solved.
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