in His heaven.

Can you disprove it?

Can you prove it based on empirical evidence?

If Jesus is alive, please indicate his location, and I will send a team of board-certified doctors to verify brain wave activity.

If you are speaking of the "soul", then please indicate the parameters by which we will define whether a "soul" is alive or dead.

Then we can debate. Otherwise, you have simply made a sweeping statement with no points of contention, and people are either free to agree or disagree due to lack of evidence on either side.

Sorry, as per the sticky for the thread, I merely stated my point and asked that one give evidence to disprove the statement that I made. Refer, please, to the part of the R&H that requests that no ad hominem attacks take place in this thread. If you have no evidence, please bypass this thread.

You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

Here is a hint: The Bible is suspect and is not proof, unless I can introduce Grimm's Fairy Tales as proof of a golden goose that makes golden eggs.

quote:

Originally posted by transport1:
Sorry, as per the sticky for the thread, I merely stated my point and asked that one give evidence to disprove the statement that I made. Refer, please, to the part of the R&H that requests that no ad hominem attacks take place in this thread. If you have no evidence, please bypass this thread.

The rules are quite simple:

Any Member is welcome, including Moderators.

Any Topic or Subject may be brought up in this forum.

There will be ZERO name calling, ZERO ad hominem debate, and ZERO PERSONAL ATTACKS.

All are expected to do their OWN homework to enable themselves to effectively argue, or counter a point or belief

Guys, you can't expect to have someone argue a point that you have not first supported.

quote:

Originally posted by AKinNC:
You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

Here is a hint: The Bible is suspect and is not proof, unless I can introduce Grimm's Fairy Tales as proof of a golden goose that makes golden eggs.

And I would argue to you that the biographies of the Brothers Grimm is well known. Their work is marketed as "Fairy Tales" (defined on dictionary.com as: 1. a story, usually for children, about elves, hobgoblins, dragons, fairies, or other magical creatures.
2. an incredible or misleading statement, account, or belief: His story of being a millionaire is just a fairy tale.) And as far as the egg - ask you to produce said egg, or a mineralologist detailed assay of said egg.

As far as my arguement, which it is - I stated the arguement and asked that anyone disprove it. Since it is my arguement, and this then is my thread - the burden of proof lies with those that come to argue with me. Otherwise, for me to lay out the proof means that I do not need you.

I don't believe in God or heaven, therefore, I have met your simple standard. Since you have given nothing to support your claim, other than your personal opinion, my opinion is used to disprove yours.

quote:

Originally posted by transport1:

quote:

Originally posted by AKinNC:
You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

Here is a hint: The Bible is suspect and is not proof, unless I can introduce Grimm's Fairy Tales as proof of a golden goose that makes golden eggs.

And I would argue to you that the biographies of the Brothers Grimm is well known. Their work is marketed as "Fairy Tales" (defined on dictionary.com as: 1. a story, usually for children, about elves, hobgoblins, dragons, fairies, or other magical creatures.
2. an incredible or misleading statement, account, or belief: His story of being a millionaire is just a fairy tale.) And as far as the egg - ask you to produce said egg, or a mineralologist detailed assay of said egg.

As far as my arguement, which it is - I stated the arguement and asked that anyone disprove it. Since it is my arguement, and this then is my thread - the burden of proof lies with those that come to argue with me. Otherwise, for me to lay out the proof means that I do not need you.

Thing thing is, an argument has evidence to support it; it has premises and conclusions; it is convincing and compelling. Baldly making a statement with no supporting evidence, no logical argument, and really no basis at all isn't an argument.

Just because your statement is a popular idea in America's current culture doesn't mean you get a pass and get to state it without evidence. After all, it's not uncommon in the USA to think that the government was involved in 9/11 in some way (~25% of Americans believe this, if I recall correctly), but we don't accept that statement as fact and say "Disprove it." just because it's popular.


You are the one making the positive assertions that:

1) Jesus exists.
2) God exists.
3) Jesus is alive.
4) Heaven exists.
5) Jesus is at the right hand of God in Heaven.

Support them if you can.

quote:

Originally posted by transport1:
in His heaven.

Can you disprove it?

It is impossible for me to disprove it. But it is also impossible for you to prove it.

You have not presented an argument. You have merely made a statement.

But then all creation stories and religions must be true as well, as they have texts and traditions that are equally authoritative.

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357L:

quote:

Originally posted by transport1:
in His heaven.
Can you disprove it?

It is impossible for me to disprove it. But it is also impossible for you to prove it.

You have not presented an argument. You have merely made a statement.

Agreed. I believe that Jesus existed, I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and I believe Jesus is now in Heaven. This cannot be proved and it cannot be disproved.

Many things cannot be proved and cannot be disproved. For example, is it possible to "prove" that pi always equals 3.14159265 rather than 3.14159264? No - because pi is a mathematical concept - and concepts cannot be proved or disproved. Millions of people may believe that a particular concept is correct - but that does not mean it is "proved".

quote:

Originally posted by Fightdirector:

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357L:

quote:

Originally posted by transport1:
in His heaven.
Can you disprove it?

It is impossible for me to disprove it. But it is also impossible for you to prove it.

You have not presented an argument. You have merely made a statement.

Agreed. I believe that Jesus existed, I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and I believe Jesus is now in Heaven. This cannot be proved and it cannot be disproved.

Many things cannot be proved and cannot be disproved. For example, is it possible to "prove" that pi always equals 3.14159265 rather than 3.14159264? No - because pi is a mathematical concept - and concepts cannot be proved or disproved. Millions of people may believe that a particular concept is correct - but that does not mean it is "proved".

Exactly Rich, IMO if Ya can't see it, Ya can't prove either one.

quote:

Originally posted by transport1:
in His heaven.

Can you disprove it?

I can't disprove it because I fully believe it.

Excellent topic, transport!

quote:

Originally posted by sweetsuds:
But then all creation stories and religions must be true as well, as they have texts and traditions that are equally authoritative.

However no other "religions' central character" has been publicly executed and risen from the grave 3 days later, been seen and identified by hundreds of human witnesses that had no reason to lie. Nor had that "central character" raised the dead, healed the blind and lame, or fed thousands from a few baskets of food. All of this in full view of the general public.

True. But other religious texts do tell of miracles performed publicly, so they must be equally authoritative, if you're using public miracles as a standard.

quote:

However no other "religions' central character" has been publicly executed and risen from the grave 3 days later, been seen and identified by hundreds of human witnesses that had no reason to lie. Nor had that "central character" raised the dead, healed the blind and lame, or fed thousands from a few baskets of food. All of this in full view of the general public.

One might ask about the dearth of any mention of Jesus by any contemporary Roman chronicler or historian, save for the disputed Testimonium Flavianum of Josephus.

quote:

Originally posted by sweetsuds:
True. But other religious texts do tell of miracles performed publicly, so they must be equally authoritative, if you're using public miracles as a standard.

Really?! Who, what, when .... Refresh my memory...Oh and their founders have all risen from the dead after being publicly executed by hostile troops of an invader?

quote:

Originally posted by Drmwvr:

quote:

Originally posted by sweetsuds:
True. But other religious texts do tell of miracles performed publicly, so they must be equally authoritative, if you're using public miracles as a standard.

Really?! Who, what, when .... Refresh my memory...Oh and their founders have all risen from the dead after being publicly executed by hostile troops of an invader?

Don't bother LT, I read that post 10 times and still don't get it.

quote:

Originally posted by transport1:
in His heaven.

Can you disprove it?

No. Can you disprove Apollo?

In Greek and Roman circles, Apollo (in Greek, Ἀπόλλων—Apóllōn or Ἀπέλλων—Apellōn), is one of the most important and many-sided of the Olympian deities. The ideal of the kouros (a beardless youth), Apollo has been variously recognized as a god of light and the sun; truth and prophecy; archery; medicine and healing; music, poetry, and the arts; and more. Apollo is the son of Zeus and Leto, and has a twin sister, the chaste huntress Artemis. Apollo is known in Greek-influenced Etrusca as Apulu. In Roman circles he is known as Apollo.

Disprove away.

This is the thing about such proof. The one making the claim is the one who must prove it to the other, not the other way around.