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Very interesting concept. The title " Master Mariner" might not be appropriate due to other usage in the sea going world, but,

Someone should research way back to maybe 1980 or so for Uniform Board results/discussions.

As originally established, the Cutterman Insignia was strictly an indicator of "sea time" 5 years. Not a whole string of quals attached to it. At that time the PQS system did not exist, you qualified locally in the cutter. Did not matter if sea duty was in one cutter or three cutters. Strictly sea time.

About 1980 +/- there was quite a bit of scuttlebutt about proposing just the insignia you describe above. Don't know what happened to it, but around the same time frame, the sea duty ribbon was established as an indicator of sea time less than 5 years . From there on ?????

I understand the passion, but think it is probably a huge can of worms. Several of the other services, most notably the USAF, uses 'proficiency' levels on their pins - for the USAF, for all of them. Each of their pins have three versions. A basic one, then a wreath over the top for middle and a star added for the pros.

The Army does the same thing even adding differences for completind a qual/etc. during combat/hazardous duty/being in immenint danger.
It could be a nice way to distingush the diffent levels of proficiency/experience.

How about a device for drawing "saved pay" for such and such many years? Like some little hands with a dollar bill over it, that would be cool...
Of course I would want the one with the wreath and a star on top...

chapwood.....

I love it. I think there should definitely be some sort of way to distinguish between a temporary and permanent pin... or do away with the temporary all together. The 10 year thing is an interesting idea.

Interesting concept gonzo. But it will be a very uphill battle, considering that that was why they created the Sea Service ribbon and authorized stars for it (Okay Phil I know the manual needs updating).

I was wondering if you've taken your design further? I for example have 16.5 years of sea duty so what does my insignia look like for over 15? Just an example of the kind of push back and questions you'll get on this.

Cutterman8
I haven’t taken it any further as of yet, I don’t even know if I will. You always have people, that don’t like new ideas and concepts. I just wanted to feel out the general CG public and see what they thought. If feedback is mostly positive I’ll attempt of submit for a future uniform board.

Ever seen a cuttermans pin for a cutterman with over ten years of sea duty? They already exist. It gets green in all the nooks and crannies from the saltiness. Seriously. Go tell someone with a pin like that to polish it. They'll tell you that the pin polish is down in the repair locker with the DC punches. Maybe you can get a little of both!

quote:

Originally posted by LEDETOIC:
Ever seen a cuttermans pin for a cutterman with over ten years of sea duty? They already exist. It gets green in all the nooks and crannies from the saltiness. Seriously. Go tell someone with a pin like that to polish it. They'll tell you that the pin polish is down in the repair locker with the DC punches. Maybe you can get a little of both!

Per the uniform manual:
"The polishing or high gloss plating of Coast Guard qualification insignia originally finished in a single color (completely gold, silver, satin antique pewter or satin antique gold colored finishes) is authorized. Personnel must make this modification at their own expense. Polished or high gloss plated insignia are authorized for optional wear unless prohibited by the uniform prescribing authority."

So this is telling me that you are authorized to polish or have your insignia plated, but at your own expense. Otherwise let it get as green and crusty as you want.

I was on the Basswood and we were having a PI. The BM1 was standing there in pressed trops, looking sharp, with a crusty, green cuttermans pin. The CO comes by, looks him over and says, "You should get some shine on that pin, boats." Without blinking an eye, and at attention, BM1 replys, "No sir." The CO just kind of stood there for a second, and then moved on.

pretty close, the CO could be considered the uniform precribing authority, so they could say no polish.

But - saying you are 'allowed' to let it go green is a push. Uniform items still need to be in good condition. Can't order someone to sahine a green pin, but could order them to buy a new one if it looks like ****!

Actually it's star for senior then wreath around the star for master, i.e your qualification goes as such; basic, senior then master.

quote:

Originally posted by Mightyz90_93:
I understand the passion, but think it is probably a huge can of worms. Several of the other services, most notably the USAF, uses 'proficiency' levels on their pins - for the USAF, for all of them. Each of their pins have three versions. A basic one, then a wreath over the top for middle and a star added for the pros.

Thanks for the correction Guns!

Can I get a B- for at least knowing that the wreath and star equaled really good?

Done.

quote:

Originally posted by Mightyz90_93:
Thanks for the correction Guns!

Can I get a B- for at least knowing that the wreath and star equaled really good?

Gonzo---What made you think of this idea? I like it but I dont think many others would bite on it ,forward that badboy up to the next uniform board!!!Hope that Jersey is fun for ya. Hey man,can you make me some eggs!!!
An Old Connie friend
Albo

Yeah... Coni guys are like flies. We are everywhere, like it or not!

Great to see you guys! Hard to believe that it has been close to 10 years already!

BTW, that is a great idea Gonzo. Shoot it up your chain of command!! Whats for mid-rats? Just as long as it is not in a "pocket".!

Why are people so resistant to change? Sometimes it's a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by BattleshipStLouis314:
Why are people so resistant to change? Sometimes it's a good thing.

I don't think people are resistant to change at all. Now, many are resistant to changes that they do not understand or see a benifit in. That is where LEADERSHIP comes in. First leaders seek out and listen to proposals. Then they review the pros and cons. Is the 'cost' of the change (whatever the cost might be) worth the benifit gained?

There is an aweful lot of types of 'costs' associated with changes. They might be actual hard dollars, they might be perceptions (service members and public), they might be lives lost, they might be 'loss of warm and fuzzy feelings' of our people, it could be administrative burdens. I doubt anyone could list all the types of 'costs.'

Likewise, there are many types of benifits. It could be the 'pride' of a handful of people. It could be lives saved. It could be money saved or billets moved. It could be efficiency. Again - too many to think of.

Then they make a decision and then promulgate and explain it. Sometimes they explain in detail, sometimes they don't. Some decisions need detailed explinations, some just don't.

After all of that happens, most people normally follow through. When dealing with sailors especially, their will be griping! I'd bet if coungress decided to DOUBLE our base pay next month, someone would gripe! Someone would think that if John's pay was doubled, their's should have been tripled.


A lot of times, people don't see the whole picture and a lot of times the leader can't explain the whole reason (for many reasons)

quote:

Someone would think that if John's pay was doubled, their's should have been tripled.

Is there any discussion of changing Coxswain or Surfman pins for years certified?