I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but generally curious about what people think.

The USAF recently discontinued their version of the Good Conduct Medal because they stated that good conduct is expected when someone wears their uniform and should not have to be rewarded.
USAF GC Medal

I completely agree.

It is my understanding that officers aren't awarded good conduct medals because as officers they are expected to hold themselves to a higher standard. To be an Officer and a Gentleman, in other words.

It would seem as enlisted we are expected to not hold ourselves to a higher standard, but to get into trouble while on liberty.

I think by receiving a Good Conduct Medal you have failed to meet the organization's expectations. Isn't that insulting?

Do we need this medal at all?
I just wear my top three. I don't wear this medal, or the GWOT medal, or the 9/11 ribbon, or the any number of awards created recently out of some kind of misguided nostagia.
I'm an E-6 with 15 years in.
Thank you.

I don't know the history of the Good Conduct, but it does seem that we are rewarding expected behavior. I don't know about others, but I don't swell up with pride when I am given an award for not screwing up.
ag

You feel you awarded the GCM as a reward for expected behavior by TODAYS standards, your present CG.

Until the late 1990s, the wording on the reverse read " Fidelity, Zeal, Obedience", not what you have today. The GCM is just "named" the Good Conduct Medal, but was also awarded to recognize leadership "FIDELITY" and proficiency in rating "ZEAL", not just good conduct "OBEDIENCE". All three together had 4 year standards to be met.

All enlisted also had a distinction if they were awarded a CGM for 12 years consecutive good conduct. The priviledge of wearing a gold shield, gold hashmarks and a silver bullion crow and specialty mark, with gold chevrons. E-4 to E-9. It was not uncommon at all to see CPOs with 20 or better wearing scarlet hashmarks and chevrons.

It was only with the shift to "Bender blues" that somehow CPOs were ,by divine right or somesuch, the only ones authorized gold rating badges and hashmarks.

Good Conduct Medals have been awarded in the Navy since the Civil War era, and the CG since about 1921. Prior to the CGM, the wearing gold was the indicator of good conduct, from 1908 in the RCS onward to 1976.

But, if those other traits are no longer worth recognizing in your Coast Guard, get rid of the thing, it has outlived its usefulness.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mastersmate,

quote:

Originally posted by jpft123:
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but generally curious about what people think.

The USAF recently discontinued their version of the Good Conduct Medal because they stated that good conduct is expected when someone wears their uniform and should not have to be rewarded.
USAF GC Medal

I completely agree.

It is my understanding that officers aren't awarded good conduct medals because as officers they are expected to hold themselves to a higher standard. To be an Officer and a Gentleman, in other words.

It would seem as enlisted we are expected to not hold ourselves to a higher standard, but to get into trouble while on liberty.

I think by receiving a Good Conduct Medal you have failed to meet the organization's expectations. Isn't that insulting?

Do we need this medal at all?
I just wear my top three. I don't wear this medal, or the GWOT medal, or the 9/11 ribbon, or the any number of awards created recently out of some kind of misguided nostagia.
I'm an E-6 with 15 years in.
Thank you.

That is an interesting point of view, however, I completely disagree. You have the choice to wear your full set of ribbons or the top three which you indicated you do. So what is it to you if somebody else wears any award with pride? Like I was told a long time ago, "if you don't like it, then change it". Get some rank and change the awards manual, GOD knows it needs a review. My 2 pennies as always.

BTW Happy veterans day to all.

quote:

Originally posted by Coastie63J20:

quote:

Originally posted by jpft123:
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but generally curious about what people think.

The USAF recently discontinued their version of the Good Conduct Medal because they stated that good conduct is expected when someone wears their uniform and should not have to be rewarded.
USAF GC Medal

I completely agree.

It is my understanding that officers aren't awarded good conduct medals because as officers they are expected to hold themselves to a higher standard. To be an Officer and a Gentleman, in other words.

It would seem as enlisted we are expected to not hold ourselves to a higher standard, but to get into trouble while on liberty.

I think by receiving a Good Conduct Medal you have failed to meet the organization's expectations. Isn't that insulting?

Do we need this medal at all?
I just wear my top three. I don't wear this medal, or the GWOT medal, or the 9/11 ribbon, or the any number of awards created recently out of some kind of misguided nostagia.
I'm an E-6 with 15 years in.
Thank you.

That is an interesting point of view, however, I completely disagree. You have the choice to wear your full set of ribbons or the top three which you indicated you do. So what is it to you if somebody else wears any award with pride? Like I was told a long time ago, "if you don't like it, then change it". Get some rank and change the awards manual, GOD knows it needs a review. My 2 pennies as always.

BTW Happy veterans day to all.

You can certainly wear whatever you like. I don't care. This topic isn't about that.

I'm curious if people think the GCM is still relevant. I think when you put on the uniform and take the oath you should know how to act and conduct yourself. Should a medal for good behavior be a part of today's CG?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by MastersMate:
Until the late 1990s, the wording on the reverse read " Fidelity, Zeal, Obedience", not what you have today. The GCM is just "named" the Good Conduct Medal, but was also awarded to recognize leadership "FIDELITY" and proficiency in rating "ZEAL", not just good conduct "OBEDIENCE". All three together had 4 year standards to be met. . .

. . . But, if those other traits are no longer worth recognizing in your Coast Guard, get rid of the thing, it has outlived its usefulness.

Now my 2¢ . . .

MastersMate is right (again!). Another point is that ribbons/medals used to be the exception rather than the rule.

Unlike today's plethora of awards for even the most minor achievements, or even for just "fogging the mirror" (e.g. the "Katrina" PUC ribbon).

Forty-five years later: On my Auxiliary uniform I proudly wear the CG Good Conduct Medal I earned while on AD.

My solution would be to cut back on the number of meaningless ribbons, medals and award -- but keep the GCM!

...gjd

quote:

Originally posted by geejaydee:

Now my 2¢ . . .

MastersMate is right (again!). Another point is that ribbons/medals used to be the exception rather than the rule.

Unlike today's plethora of awards for even the most minor achievements, or even for just "fogging the mirror" (e.g. the "Katrina" PUC ribbon).

Forty-five years later: On my Auxiliary uniform I proudly wear the CG Good Conduct Medal I earned while on AD.

My solution would be to cut back on the number of meaningless ribbons, medals and award -- but keep the GCM!

...gjd

gjd,
How is the GCM different than the "plethora of awards for even the most minor achievements, or even for just "fogging the mirror"? Unless you count doing what is expected of every Coastie as a significant achievement. Todays GCM is given not for what you have done - but for what you have not done (Mast, Court Martial, Low marks).
The Medals and Awards Manual says the eligibility requirements for a GCM are "Awarded for proficiency in rating, sobriety, obedience,industry, courage, and neatness throughout such period of service. Effective 1 July 1983, the required period of service is 3 years." Has anyone ever heard of this actually being taken in to consideration? To my knowledge the only measurement used is, if you have not gotten into trouble - then you are assumed to have met the requirements (and the medal is automatic). How often is a display of "courage" considered before a CGM is awarded - I have not heard of it if it has.

ag

quote:

Effective 1 July 1983, the required period of service is 3 years." Has anyone ever heard of this actually being taken in to consideration? To my knowledge the only measurement used is, if you have not gotten into trouble - then you are assumed to have met the requirements (and the medal is automatic).

If the three year period is not being met, then the award has been awarded in error, and one would hope that with your core values as a guiding light, the recipient would point out the discrepancy and return the service medal. Additionally if the required grades in all evaluation subjects do not average three, or conduct four, the award is in error, and the award should be returned.

Why does someone that flies in an airplane get to wear a winged insignia on their uniform ?

Why does someone who has served five years on a cutter, get to wear some sort of insignia on their uniform ?

Why does someone that handles a small craft get to wear some sort of insignia on their uniform ?

Insignia, campaign and service medals are a part of the military recognition system. Every one of those insignia worn, or service ribbons & medals, aren't required to do the job the designate. They are there to provide RECOGNITION of the job being done.

It may be best to eliminate them also, and reduce the ammount of clutter worn on the uniform, not to mention the cost savings to the recipient.

Military decorations, on the other hand, are awarded for cited accomplishments, above and beyond.

Then again, everyone is expected to do their duty above and beyond when required. Maybe the military decorations system should be eliminated also.


original posting,
"Do we need this medal at all?
I just wear my top three.

Just 3, either katrina PUC, unit commendations and/or personal decorations. commendable.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mastersmate,

To lighten things up a bit: In my "Hooligan Navy" days at least, the GCM was often described as an award "for not getting caught for a period of three years."

The definition provided says the GCM is

quote:

. . . Awarded for proficiency in rating, sobriety, obedience, industry, courage, and neatness throughout such period of service.

If "industry" (as defined in the dictionary is an "Energetic devotion to a task or an endeavor," then "not getting caught" for three years certainly meets this standard. For 12 years? It's was a miracle!

My additional 2¢

Fights in the mess hall are tough to cover up?

Yeah, but one could always "plea bargain" a potential Mast down to an informal "Extra Instruction." (There's probably a ribbon or medal for that now!)

...gjd

I think the problem is not with the medal or what it is for, rather it is that the higher ups have made it a give-me metal that does not consider all the requirements. But on the other side I have seen where the good worker who made a bad choice and went to mast was quite up set at loosing the GCM. He felt that not having it would brand him as a trouble maker. That in it self, I think will help to not make that type of mistake again. Not so much the punishment he got as it was a slap on the wrist and was over in 30 days. The missing GCM will last him 3 years, if he proves to have learned and cares. Now I am not trying to say that everyone will be like his but it is a thought. Also maybe there needs to be a change with the marks to help in awarding the GCM as it meant to be. Maybe instead of just having a Sat or Unsat mark for conduct it could be worked to to meet the req. for the GCM. Set it up just like the other marks with scale. Then when you meet all the req. for three years, BOOM GCM. I also like the idea for the gold ratings.

That would be my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by MastersMate:
Why does someone that flies in an airplane get to wear a winged insignia on their uniform ?

Why does someone who has served five years on a cutter, get to wear some sort of insignia on their uniform ?

Why does someone that handles a small craft get to wear some sort of insignia on their uniform ?

Insignia, campaign and service medals are a part of the military recognition system. Every one of those insignia worn, or service ribbons & medals, aren't required to do the job the designate. They are there to provide RECOGNITION of the job being done.

It may be best to eliminate them also, and reduce the ammount of clutter worn on the uniform, not to mention the cost savings to the recipient.

Military decorations, on the other hand, are awarded for cited accomplishments, above and beyond.

Then again, everyone is expected to do their duty above and beyond when required. Maybe the military decorations system should be eliminated also.


original posting,
"Do we need this medal at all?
I just wear my top three.

Just 3, either katrina PUC, unit commendations and/or personal decorations. commendable.

MasterMate,
With all due respect, I think you may be comparing apples to oranges here.
"Why does someone that flies in an airplane get to wear a winged insignia on their uniform ?"
Because they have completed some type of training and/or syllabus - the winged insignia is recognition of doing something.

"Why does someone who has served five years on a cutter, get to wear some sort of insignia on their uniform ?"
I am a little out my AOR here but I think more than just serving on a cutter for 5 years is required - I think completion of some type of PQS and getting qualified in some capacity is required, again the Cutterman Insignia is indication that something of significance was accomplished.

The same is true of Coxswain, Command Insignia, etc, something was accomplished by the member. The GCM (seems to me), is awarded for simply not getting into trouble - for not doing something. I suppose you could put a positive spin on it and say it is awarded for meeting expectations, but that does not seem like much to crow about.

If I am missing something, please point out the error in my thinking.

ag

quote:

Until the late 1990s, the wording on the reverse read " Fidelity, Zeal, Obedience", not what you have today. The GCM is just "named" the Good Conduct Medal, but was also awarded to recognize leadership "FIDELITY" and proficiency in rating "ZEAL", not just good conduct "OBEDIENCE". All three together had 4 year standards to be met.

The GCM is not just about good conduct. It is also about meeting the leadership minimums or whatever they're called now, and the proficiency minimums, whatever they are called, for a specified time frame. If an individual has good conduct, but below the required marks in proficiency and leadership, the GCM is NOT supposed to be distributed to the individual. If, as another poster alluded to, it has become a "gimmee" then the leadership is remiss in its responsibility in maintaining the "integrity" of the award.

It is a service medal, distributed to those who meet the specified requirements in the awards manual. Other than the shape, a ribbon or a ribbon with a metal pendant, it is essentially a "qualification" recognition. Much the same as the cutterman, air crew, coxswain or surfman insignia. Meeting, "qualifying", to specific standards. It is the "qualification" insignia from the time prior to all the breast insignia. Are qualification insignia really necessary ?

It is not a personal decoration, a completely different creature from a service or campaign medal. This is my last on the subject, but it is only my opinion that the general subject of awards is so muddled today, that there is not a clear understanding as to the differences.

At least this subject will keep bouncing around this place. It is your Coast Guard now,you folks can interpret the subject of awards any way you'd like now. If it is passe' now, then those concerned should start the ball rolling up the chain of command, and eliminate the thing.

As gjd alluded to earlier, in the time prior to the proliferation of todays ribbon only awards, the Good Conduct medal was a significant milestone in a petty officers career. It was usually one of the three or four ribbons that would be amassed in a twenty year career. One had to, at times, be resourceful to keep on the steady course for four years.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mastersmate,

When done right, it is not a gimme. (I know - that is a big statement, when done right) When I do up a set of EERs, I pay the most attention to the last two items. They require the most thought of all. I follow the guidelines in the PERSMAN rather than just automatically give a S and an R. Over a three year period for a Petty Officer, Conduct is evaluated 6 times. There is a plethera of items that are automatic DQs, as well as others that when summed up, could be a DQ.

MM - save me some hassle shipmate and explain the old retiree pay rules that were based upon continual GC.....

quote:

As gjd alluded to earlier, in the time prior to the proliferation of todays ribbon only awards, the Good Conduct medal was a significant milestone in a petty officers career. It was usually one of the three or four ribbons that would be amassed in a twenty year career. One had to, at times, be resourceful to keep on the steady course for four years.

"Resourceful!" I like that a lot better than my "not getting caught."

...gjd

$$$$$$$$$$

In a nutshell, an additional 10 % to an enlisted mans retired pay, the benefit of maintaining a good conduct record.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mastersmate,

But the guys with the red hashmarks had more fun!

quote:

Originally posted by MastersMate:
$$$$$$$$$$

In a nutshell, an additional 10 % to an enlisted mans retired pay, the benefit of maintaining a good conduct record.

Roughly the same as a medal with a V or H on it!

I think I needed better representation, Chief Pledger might not have been in my corner, Duh!