??

No

well, let me add to this. Of course there is no Special Ops ROTC program. Basically all ROTC is the same. Technically there are three different types of ROTC programs, but the ROTC classes and basic training is the same.

However, back to the Special Ops question, you can do CTLT with a Special Ops unit. You can also be SMP with even a Special Forces unit.

Bottom line, though: don't count on it. CTLT can be luck of the draw where you get assigned and to do SMP with a Special Forces Guard unit I have no idea.

sometimes I sit and daydream what it would be like to do CTLT at the JFKSWPLP...and how awesome it would be. Then I snap out of it and realize I just missed 10 minutes of notes and won't get anywhere with a sucky GPA...

for a link of what the hell CTLT at the JFKSWPLP is go here

I'm not entirely sure what all of the acronyms mean, but thats besides the point. The information I was given is that once you complete ROTC (graduated, commissioned and with your unit,) and after you gain the rank of O-3 Captain, then you can request to report for Special Operations Selections.

How long will that be? The information I was given (from a Capt.) is that you gain O-2 1st Lieutenant after 18 months. You gain O-3 between 42 months and the end of your contract. Kind of like how E-1 become E-2 after 6 months then E-3 after...18? Anyway, there is not a Spec Ops ROTC, but that option is still there, just a few years away.

Thanks for that information 1252, I was considering starting a new topic asking about that. What sort of things do they look at when you apply for Special Operations Selections? Do they only look at people from Combat Arms branches or Infantry or what? Does being in one of those help or is it entirely objective selection?

So you know: JFKSWPLP= John F Kennedy Special Warfare Platoon Leader Program

tread lightly when you go but try professional soldiers

also, you can go to the bragg site


The recruitment criteria listed below are valid as of the time of construction of this Web page. Speaking to a recruiter will provide you with the most current information on prerequisites.

The following criteria is required for all applicants (officers and enlisted):

1. Must be an active duty male Soldier.
2. Must be U.S. citizen (non-waiverable).
3. Must be airborne qualified or volunteer for airborne training.
4. Must score a minimum of 229 points on the Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT), with no less than 60 points on any event, using the standards for age group 17-21.
5. Must be able to meet medical fitness standards as outlined in AR 40-501.
6. Must be eligible for a "SECRET" security clearance (security clearance is not required to attend SFAS).
7. No Soldier, regardless of Military Occupational Specialty or basic branch will be recruited if he is unable to reclassify from his current MOS or basic branch into CMF 18.
8. All Soldiers will be given a 50 meter swim assessment, conducted in uniform, during SFAS to determine whether they have the aptitude to learn how to swim.

Additional criteria exclusive to enlisted applicants:

1. Enlisted applicants must be in the pay grade of E-4 to E-6 or E7s with no more than 12 years TIS and 9 months TIG. Successful completion of SFAS is a prerequisite to the SFQC.
2. Must be a high school graduate or have a general equivalency diploma (GED).
3. Must have a general technical (GT) score of 100 or higher.
4. Stabilization of current drill sergeants and detailed recruiters will not be broken.
5. Specialists, Corporals, and Sergeants who successfully complete SFAS will normally have their Retention Control Point waived to attend the SFQC. Upon successful completion of SFQC, they will be allowed continued service. Staff Sergeants approaching their RCP will not be allowed to apply. Each Sergeant First Class (SFC) must have no more than 12 years time in service and nine months time in grade when applying for SFAS and must be either airborne or ranger qualified. SFCs must also be able to PCS to the SFQC within six months of selection from SFAS.
6. Soldiers on assignment will not be allowed to attend SFAS without their branch’s prior approval. Soldiers on orders to a short tour area will be allowed to attend SFAS if a deferment is not required. These individuals will be scheduled for the next available SFQC after their DEROS. Soldiers who volunteer for SFAS prior to receiving assignment notification will be deferred to allow SFAS attendance. For SFAS graduates, assignment to the SFQC will take precedence over any assignment conflict.
7. OCONUS-based Soldiers may attend SFAS in a TDY and return status anytime during their tour. Upon successful completion of SFAS, Soldiers will be scheduled for the next available SFQC provided they have completed at least two-thirds of their overseas assignment obligation and have received HRC approval for curtailment of the remainder of their overseas tour obligation. Soldiers serving on a short tour will not have their assignment curtailed.
8. CONUS-based Soldiers may attend SFAS in a TDY and return status anytime during their tour. Upon successful completion of SFAS, Soldiers will be scheduled to attend the SFQC ensuring that they will have completed at least one-year time on station prior to PCS.
9. Must have a minimum of 36 months remaining Time in Service (TIS) upon completion of the SFQC.

Additional criteria exclusive to Officer applicants:

1. Must be in the pay grade of O-1 / O-2 and be in the targeted year group for the Captains Board.
2. Have at least a Secret security clearance prior to final packet approval and meet eligibility criteria for Top Secret clearance.
3. Have completed the Officer Basic Course and have been successful in your branch assignments prior to application for Special Forces.
4. Have a Defense Language Aptitude Battery (DLAB) Score of 85 or higher or a Defense Language Proficiency Test (DLPT) of a minimum of 1/1 reading and listening score.
5. Have a minimum of 36 months remaining time in service upon completion of Special Forces Detachment Officer Qualification Course (SFDOQC).

All applicants must not:

1.
Be barred to reenlistment or be under suspension of favorable personnel action.
2.
Have been convicted by court-martial or have disciplinary action noted in their official military personnel fiche under the provisions of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (Article 15). This provision can only be waived by the Commanding General, United States Army Special Warfare Center and School on a case-by-case basis.
3.
Have been terminated from SF, ranger, or airborne duty, unless termination was due to extreme family problems.
4.
Have 30 days or more lost time under USC 972 within current or preceding enlistment.

-----------------------------------------


There is some good information on the Bragg website. The required rank for A & Q course is inaccurate in the previous post.


Goodluck.

that was an amazing source of information on those sites and i cannot thank you enough for pointing me in that direction

quote:

Originally posted by 12528706:
I'm not entirely sure what all of the acronyms mean, but thats besides the point. The information I was given is that once you complete ROTC (graduated, commissioned and with your unit,) and after you gain the rank of O-3 Captain, then you can request to report for Special Operations Selections.

How long will that be? The information I was given (from a Capt.) is that you gain O-2 1st Lieutenant after 18 months. You gain O-3 between 42 months and the end of your contract. Kind of like how E-1 become E-2 after 6 months then E-3 after...18? Anyway, there is not a Spec Ops ROTC, but that option is still there, just a few years away.

Are you currently an officer?
Are you in college/ROTC?

I wouldn't worry about becoming an SF soldier, yet. You need to become a great officer first, spend a few years as a PL and do a deployment. Your jumping way ahead of yourself that you really have no control of, the thing you should be worried about is getting commissioned, being a good officer and keeping your PT score high.

Wow i had never heard of CTLT at JFK but damn that sounds badass. I wonder though if that is the same thing as "robin sage" where they send cadets to be OPFOR for the SF students. Oh and I think that would be hilarious if there was some high ranking special forces NCO that decided he wanted to do ROTC and SMP with 20th group or something.

quote:

ever heard of CTLT at JFK but damn that sounds badass. I wonder though if that is the same thing as "robin sage" where they send cadets to be OPFOR for the SF students. Oh and I think that would be hilarious if there was some high ranking special forces NCO that decided he wanted to do ROTC and SMP with 20th group or so

I did ROTC back in the 90's with a guy who was a prior SSGT with Ranger/SF tabs and was in GWI and Somalia.

So yeah... it happens.

no.

army rotc has a ranger challenge team (which you can do your own research on) and that's as close as you'll get.

Of course, a little self study isn't a bad idea either. We formed (with permission of the SAI) both Aggressor and Special Forces units within our battalion. These were totaly extracurricular to the main JROTC program (our time - our dime) but we also had help from the local Reserve and Guard units. Both our SF and AGR held weekly outdoor training exercises (separately of course) but we did go out on manuveres together with the ARMY Reserve and Guard units and the local Marine Reserve Inf. Co. on a regular basis.

In my Senior year as a Cadet. Capt. I had the responsibility to go to each of the different units and make the arrangements for each of the outings we participated in. When we informed them we were interested in Special Ops type stuff they always would assign one or two "vets" who were qualified and had seen combat. They were great help in teaching us their basic operations and how to plan attacks and ambushes, proper setup of fields of fire, etc.

I guess what I'm saying in short is...

Start your own!

You do realize JROTC and real ROTC are two very different things? You can't just make up "training" on your own, especially because if someone gets hurt, their commission could be jeopardized.

To add onto wannagousna's comments I'm not sure having A SF ROTC unit is a good idea even if it were feasible. The point of any ROTC is to prepare college students for entry level 2LT/Ensign positions in the armed services. The SF entities do high level stuff that has little to do with "the basics". Given this, the whole thing sounds like a waste of time to me.

quote:

Originally posted by amuscato:
Wow i had never heard of CTLT at JFK but damn that sounds badass. I wonder though if that is the same thing as "robin sage" where they send cadets to be OPFOR for the SF students. Oh and I think that would be hilarious if there was some high ranking special forces NCO that decided he wanted to do ROTC and SMP with 20th group or something.

Yeah, SF CTLTs are pretty coveted slots. And I seriously doubt its linked to Robin Sage given that the aim of CTLT is to give a cadet a little real world platoon leader time while Robin Sage provides warm bodies which can carry weapons to be used to train Army SF students.

And (as has been noted) the notion of an SF NCO doing ROTC isnt all that far fetched. Special Forces MOSs open the opportunity for early promotion. Its not at all impossible for somebody to make SSG or even SFC and still be young enough to go through ROTC.

quote:

You do realize JROTC and real ROTC are two very different things? You can't just make up "training" on your own, especially because if someone gets hurt, their commission could be jeopardized.

You do realize the JROTC I'm referring to was during the Viet Nam war, at the end of your senior year you got your Diploma, Draft Number, and marching papers. They (the military) wanted their cadets to have some familiarity with weapons and tactics before they went for induction/enlistment. Todays JROTC/ROTC is but a shadow of what it once was as far as I can see. Are the college ROTC programs issued live weapons these days (I hope so)? JROTC was issued live M14's up through 1976, before the M14's we had M1 carbines (also live). We were taught the proper way to care for and shoot the M14 and even given the opportunity to qualify with the rifle through the Michigan ARMY Reserve. Also we had oversight by combat proven vets while in the field directing our training. This helped many cadets decide which MOS they wanted to try for. It also was a way to show initiative by starting our own program, administering the program, and it improved morale too. The recruiters loved to come to our school because we had so many cadets who were motivated and had some field leadership abilities. We wern't a bunch of high school kiddies just out to "play army", we were the OpFor unit on all of our outings with the Reserves and Guard units in our area. We got many compliments by the unit commanders for putting up a hell of a fight, oh yeah, and if you got injured you just delt with it. Boo Hoo! No ones commission was on the line.

My how times change.

quote:

Originally posted by PKMgunner:
My how times change.

Well, they have.

First off, JROTC is no longer a prep course for ROTC or Basic Training. Its more or less Boy Scouts on steroids. I cant say conclusively when and why the change occurred, but my guess is it came out of the movement that caused many ROTC detachments to shut down on elite universities. Personally, I would prefer it to be like you describe. However, it seems to work alright as is.

As to ROTC. In Army ROTC, we did live fire training with M16s and M60s. We did non-live fire training with other weapons too. I cant speak for the other services, but Im sure they receive weapons training as their services deem appropriate.

Now this notion of ROTC SF units. Like I said before, ROTC trains for entry level O1 positions and SF is above and beyond this. As an example, look at my folks in Army ROTC. These folks are evaluated on their ability to lead in a dismounted infantry situation. There is no opportunity to show how good you are at fielding guerilla forces, doing high level recon work, commando raids, etc. So filling a cadet full of such skills will do him/her a disservice. I would imagine this is the same in Air Force or Navy ROTC. Perhaps more so.

I took JROTC in the early 90's and it was almost identical to what I learned at North Georgia college. It may depend on where you go. I competed on the rifle team (where we fired .22 and .177 rifles everyday) and on the Ranger Challenge Team. I learned more on the Ranger Challenge Team in JROTC and on the Ranger Challenge Team at North Georgia than I ever did in just ROTC alone. We fired M-16's annually in JROTC. In ROTC, we of course did M-16's and grenades.

Now, this may be because our SAI in JROTC was retired-Special Forces and our Ranger Challenge Team advisor at North Georgia was both a Ranger and Special Forces. Not too sure. But we learned a lot.

As for Special Ops ROTC itself, it is not going to happen. For cadets who merely enroll in ROTC, it is basic-basic training, The class teaches jack. If you want to learn anything, you have to do the extracurriculars. Compete in the Ranger Challenge unit, compete in marksmanship if they offer it, and certainly to to Jump School and Air Assault when available. If you are nonscholarship, do SMP.

We had a cadet in my ROTC class who was Special Forces, and drove over to Alabama monthly for his drill. But this is because he was already enlisted before he enrolled in ROTC.

Remember, this is sad, but true. Most soldiers (as with everyday people) are stupid. This is the same for cadets. To put cadets through some special ops ROTC program would be stupid unless it was highly competitive and incorporated into a program like the Ranger Challenge program. The cadets would take the MS classes, but outside the MS classes, they would need to be separated from the other cadets. This is how the Ranger Challenge program at North Georgia works. The RC unit is a unit itself, and has nothing to do with the ROTC brigade there. Cadets are selected during FROG week and then belong only to the RC unit.