http://www.uscg.mil/ANNOUNCEME...st/alcoast444-09.txt

WTF...

Now people on a boat, in big surf are paid more than a person in drysuit in big surf!

Just a thought...maybe they spend more time in that environment so the risks are deemed higher? Really, I have no idea but that is what occurred to me.

Personally I think retired GM's should at least get SD 4.....

quote:

Originally posted by Dog_show:
Now people on a boat, in big surf are paid more than a person in drysuit in big surf!

Perhaps there is some confusion about the purpose of Special Duty Assignment Pay. Maybe a reminder about SDAP is in order...

37 U.S.C. § 307

"(a) An enlisted member who is entitled to basic pay and is performing duties which have been designated under subsection (b) as extremely difficult or as involving an unusual degree of responsibility in a military skill may, in addition to other pay or allowances to which he is entitled, be paid special duty assignment pay at a monthly rate not to exceed $600."

Seems to me that the boat driver (SDAP isn't just for "people on a boat") has a higher degree of responsibility than the person in the drysuit. Their duties can be extremely difficult as well. SDAP shouldn't be confused with Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay (HDIP).

IT seems to you? why does it only seem? Do not forget about that high level of diffculty either.

I purposely stated it that way because what isn't in direct quotes is only my own humble opinion. Those with an opinion that actually matter (the SDAP panel in this instance) 'seem' to agree. The boat driver has the greater degree of responsibility - period. Last I heard, coxswains don't have a quick release and none of their crew have a shear switch. The high level of difficulty was clearly addressed in a manner reflecting both jobs. The 'fact' remains that SDAP is not compensation for the danger or hazards you encounter in your rating or duties.

quote:

The boat driver has the greater degree of responsibility - period. Last I heard, coxswains don't have a quick release and none of their crew have a shear switch.

That coxswain is also bearing a hefty degree of responsibiliy for a very expensive boat and the lives of the crew.

My point exactly; no way to 'let go' if things go wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Ex_CG_GM:

quote:

The boat driver has the greater degree of responsibility - period. Last I heard, coxswains don't have a quick release and none of their crew have a shear switch.

That coxswain is also bearing a hefty degree of responsibiliy for a very expensive boat and the lives of the crew.

Last I heard, If that FLT MECH hits the shear switch I will probably die or be seriously injured (do not know how this relates to my responsability). Also, the quick release just releases the trail line. Not really an abort switch.

And I have had the responsability of saving a boat that was not the Coast Guards and was actually sinking...and then I really saved the Civilians onboard. Also, A swimmer whom is now a retired 60 pilot...told me about a case where he had to make decision to remove a man wrapped in a net and wench on a fishing boat...and if he did he risked him bleeding to death...or keep him there and try to steam closer to land. A Chief still standing duty, told me about a case where his decisions and amazing ability saved a 700 ft friegther (I wonder how many 47's that would have bought) from sinking. Mike Odom, was looking for the shear switch on the raft he got left in and almost died from exposure.

I think by saying we simply have an easy button...well. Sorry we don't. But in the same breath.

Surfman and heavy weather coxswains I would assume have a great level of responsability, and a high level of skill to do what they do.

You my friend on the other hand, have nothing to base any of your comments on...except what you think you know. But nothing from experience. So your comments are based truley in the purest form of ignorance.

And also so is your answer why our SDAP went down. I got the skinny. Your reference also was a little old...search for the newer one 1430.1p...there you shall find enlightment.

As for that chip on your shoulder...that's going to have been done a more spirtual plain.

Wow! Not sure who you were addressing but I'll respond to the sections that may pertain to the information I provided.

I never said you had an easy button. There are however, provisions for you to disconnect or be disconnected from the aircraft and yes, I know that the quick release only allows you to disconnect the trail line. Again, yes your job is hazardous. SDAP has nothing to do with it. Your job is difficult and requires a high degree of responsibilty. SDAP is provided for those reasons.

BZ to all ASTs that save lives and property. CG boat drivers have the responsibility for their crew and their boats EVERY TIME they go out. Oh, and they save lives and property too - BZ!

As for enlightenment, your skinny on the 1430.1P is excellent. I read that one too - before I even responded to your original post. Since we've both read it, take a quick look at that line up near the top of page 1. It's the line that says, "Ref: (a) 37 U.S.C. § 307." It happens to be the reference that authorizes the SDAP program.

Finally, I don't know why your SDAP went down. I previously stated my opinion but I wasn't on the panel so I could very well be wrong. Regardless of the reason, my point was that SDAP shouldn't be confused with HDIP and only one of these pays has to do with danger. (I'll ASSUME that you weren't addressing me in regards to not having any experience and to having a chip on my shoulder. If I'm wrong, you know what that makes you and me.)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: M_Chewy,

quote:

Now people on a boat, in big surf are paid more than a person in drysuit in big surf!

So are the CMC's that sit behind that large BMD.

As they say, choose your rate...

Wray...

quote:

Originally posted by M_Chewy:
Wow! Not sure who you were addressing but I'll respond to the sections that may pertain to the information I provided.

I never said you had an easy button. There are however, provisions for you to disconnect or be disconnected from the aircraft and yes, I know that the quick release only allows you to disconnect the trail line. Again, yes your job is hazardous. SDAP has nothing to do with it. Your job is difficult and requires a high degree of responsibilty. SDAP is provided for those reasons.

BZ to all ASTs that save lives and property. CG boat drivers have the responsibility for their crew and their boats EVERY TIME they go out. Oh, and they save lives and property too - BZ!

As for enlightenment, your skinny on the 1430.1P is excellent. I read that one too - before I even responded to your original post. Since we've both read it, take a quick look at that line up near the top of page 1. It's the line that says, "Ref: (a) 37 U.S.C. § 307." It happens to be the reference that authorizes the SDAP program.

Finally, I don't know why your SDAP went down. I previously stated my opinion but I wasn't on the panel so I could very well be wrong. Regardless of the reason, my point was that SDAP shouldn't be confused with HDIP and only one of these pays has to do with danger. (I'll ASSUME that you weren't addressing me in regards to not having any experience and to having a chip on my shoulder. If I'm wrong, you know what that makes you and me.)

I know that SDAP is not HDIP.

I have to ask how come when I Look at 1430.1p I get this paragraph?


Reference (a) established Special Duty Assignment Pay (SDAP), which provides an additional monthly payment as both an incentive to retain enlisted personnel required to perform extremely demanding duties or duties demanding an unusual degree of responsibility and an inducement to persuade qualified personnel to volunteer for such duties.



Now since we are stacked in the rating right now,and we do not need more swimmers. I guess they do not have to as big a carrot on a string to encourage people to stick out through school.

As you should be receiving both HDIP and SDAP, it's good you know they aren't the same. Hopefully the difference between pay for hazards and pay for demanding duties and an unusual degree of responsibility is also understood.

Maybe you answered your original WTF question. Maybe the SDAP panel's decision was based entirely on your rating's recruitment/retention levels. That doesn't negate the reason the CG is authorized to offer SDAP.

If recruitment/retention is your explanation, I don't understand the rationale of your comparison between the people on a boat, in big surf being paid more than a person in a drysuit in big surf. Your original post seemed to be contrasting the dangers of the two situations. If I misread your intent, I apologize. Either way, I stand by my opinion that the boat driver has a higher level of responsibility in a job that can be extremely difficult.

You wrote "I got the skinny" well....what is the answer?
I'm hoping that your answer is derived from Chief Sullivan contacting Master Chief Hoover, if not i suggest that you go that route.

You're correct the rating is at billet strength, however that doesn't necessarily mean we don't need more swimmers...two different jobs. One is a rating and the other is an aircrew position and last i knew we need a crap load of swimmers.

Your last sentence is confusing to me maybe because i remember from 1985 to around 1992ish we never had SDAP and had no retention problems at all...and still don't. SDAP and encouraging people to stick out school have nothing in common.

I guess I thought it was fair to assume that SDAP being an incentive to retain enlisted personel, and an inducement to persuade personel to volunteer for such duties...would directly effect what level would be offered. I mean if that's the purpose of it...why would it not be the criteria used to select the level given?

quote:

Reference (a) established Special Duty Assignment Pay (SDAP), which provides an additional monthly payment as both an incentive to retain enlisted personnel required to perform extremely demanding duties or duties demanding an unusual degree of responsibility and an inducement to persuade qualified personnel to volunteer for such duties.

The above quote is a and/or sentence; R/S falls under the "or" portion without the inducement due to the fact we are the only billet on that list of many that is required of our rating or in other words multiple ratings can compete for the other billets except R/S.

When it comes to what level would be offered; there is only one pot of money that SDAP is drawn from and every year programs compete for that one pot of money and every year the list gets bigger and bigger. The board somehow contrived our level of responsibility is not as important than others and the money had to be spread out amongst the new billets...simple as that.

Dog:

Get qualified as a Surfman - stand that duty for awhile - and tell me which one you think is harder. Or work about triple the hours you do now as a Company Commander (SD4) - I believe you'll answer your own question.

I've done our job long enough and seen theirs long enough to say with some conviction...they should get higher SDAP.

Just one man's opinion.
/r

Mario V.

Dogshow,

When I first became qualified as a helo swimmer, there was no SDAP for our rating.
It was welcomed with open arms when the "piece of the pie" first came our way. My chief was quick to remind us not to take it for granted or assume it would always increase in amount.

Although my duty standing days are long behind me now, I clearly remember standing a number of less than 1 in 4 duty rotations due to swimmer injuries, TADs, leave, etc. Given my choice of SDAP or more swimmers, I'd choose the latter.
As other rating's quals and responsibilities increase, I would guess that the distribution of the SDAP funds will continue to be divided even more. Perhaps it is best to be thankful with a slice of that pie, regardless of it's amount.

just my two cents tossed into the jar...

give my best to Sully and the crew.


mm

quote:

Originally posted by OlderNewMario:
Dog:

Get qualified as a Surfman - stand that duty for awhile - and tell me which one you think is harder. Or work about triple the hours you do now as a Company Commander (SD4) - I believe you'll answer your own question.

I've done our job long enough and seen theirs long enough to say with some conviction...they should get higher SDAP.

Just one man's opinion.
/r


\r

Mario V.

I think I am being a little miss read here. I have no doubt that being a surfman is tough job, demands a lot of a man...nor do I think that they should get less.


I am not even going to argue about the hours. That is very station dependent. In San Diego, We worked a fair 40 hour week, maybe even less. It was pretty cake duty.

In Detroit...a whole other story.

I am not whining here. I did volunteer for this job. So, I will stand my duty diligently. This tour is proving to be a very demanding. And Chief Sullivan is doing a great job on trying to make Detroit a little better for us.

With that said, The Seniors synopsis of what happened with SDAP, makes things a bit more digestable.

and MM...But are we getting more swimmers?

And I am grateful for the money...But I also do not like seeing my paycheck get smaller either. I also do not think asking why is out of order.

quote:

are we getting more swimmers?

The answer is NO, however we'll be getting an estimated 25 more ASTs to provide for the CASA in 2011.

20 more days until retirement AST RFMC sends....

quote:

Originally posted by ASTCS:

quote:

are we getting more swimmers?

The answer is NO, however we'll be getting an estimated 25 more ASTs to provide for the CASA in 2011.

20 more days until retirement AST RFMC sends....

RFMC??? Then whose that Jimi B. guy!

Great point on separating AST's from their aircrew qual!

Here's an old school thought....maybe SDAP ought to be what the member pays back to the CG for having the privelege to do what they do?

Speaking generically.....SDAP should never be thought of as a "norm" either....it falls under "here today...gone tomorrow". I wouldn't factor it into my income when deciding whether or not one can afford a house or car payment.

There are always quite a few requests for SDAP, I think there were two requests thru our office that didn't get selected. The final ALCOAST that gets published only tells part of the story.