Demand that the all Politicions and the President be on the same Medical Plan That the American People are Being Put On. Or that the American People be put on the same Program that is tried and true that all polititions and the POTUS are on now. That would save time and since it is a good one should be no problems.

So true plus they should be on the same type of retirement plan as most people - only Social Security - bet they would fix SS fast if that's all they would receive for their retirements.

How about putting the insurance execs on the same plan also! Equal shares for everybody.

Chief Petty Officer, I cannot agree more. To have an equal footing, the fact that Congress refuses to give up their own government health plan.

It appears that Senator Reid is demanding a public option to be included in the current bill.

But, I see problems in financing a total package under the current economic stresses from which we are suffering, mainly with cost controls.

I fear the current massive printing of money will lead to a hyper inflation, albeit, much under Zimbabwe's inflation, but more what Iceland is and will experience. Look to iceland as the canary in the mine and see what is happening there. The inflation in Iceland is being mitigated from the worse only due to the fact that they can still rely on the dollar as the reserve currency.

The Average Joe who owned a home and has savings is suffering from a one two punch.

Punch One: A catastrophic decline in asset values, mainly in one's home. The fat lady has not finished singing. Wait until next year when the commercial real estate bubble will pop. This pop will result in an increase decline in residential property.

Punch two: A hyper inflation that will wipe out savings. We are talking about the possibility of a 25% inflation rate. Those with employment, who are saving up for a rainy day, will have the savings wiped out.

In response to a rising inflation, the U.S. government will have no alternatives but to print more money.

Now, damn it, I forgot my connecting point with your point Chief Petty Officer.

Oh, the new medical bill relies on taxes to finance the entire program. To kick start the program, 10 years of tax revenue will be needed. It does NOT address the fraud in the system. Nor, does it address the huge mark-up in big pharma, many drigs with a 8,000 to 250,000 percent mark up.

Now lay this over a possible economic model, I propose above. 10 years of taxes chewed up by the hyper inflation to finance 5 years of the medical plan. I doubt the tax revenue will be able to cover it.

The Government has three options to finance the medical bill:

1) Print more money,
2) Sell more debt,
3) Raise taxes

Thank-you Chief Petty Officer for posting this.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Devil_Doggie,

quote:

Originally posted by RetiredCareerCounsel:
So true plus they should be on the same type of retirement plan as most people - only Social Security - bet they would fix SS fast if that's all they would receive for their retirements.

Question, Retired. (and, I do not want to change the direction of this thread-and those threads in the career area seem to be moribund. I'm taking advantage of your post for my own personal concerns, so forgive me) But, under the current economic conditions, what do you advise a discharged military to pursue as a career. I do ask this for my own concern. I am considering to resign my commission at the end of my PhD program. But, the market for engineers and Doctorals are slim to none. Should I stay in?

To long to post and I am not that modivated to do so but you folks need to "Google" *congressional benefits* and see what they get and do not get.... way to many misconceptions. CSRS, FERS, multiple health plan options to name a few..

Oh, and remember SS was NEVER intended to be a living retirement, it was a SUPPLEMENT to ones retirement... if one didn't plan ahead for their future then....... you snooze, you loose.

They get the same benefits as other government employees. They have options in health care, similar to what major companies are able to offer their employees. In fact some talk of a public option would allow people to buy the same insurance that government employees are able to buy.

Members of Congress participate in Social Security and Federal Employees Retirement system. Members of Congress are not eligible for a pension until they reach the age of 50, but only if they've completed 20 years of service. Members are eligible at any age after completing 25 years of service or after they reach the age of 62. Please also note that Members of Congress have to serve at least 5 years to even receive a pension.

The amount of a congressperson's pension depends on the years of service and the average of the highest 3 years of his or her salary. For Members of Congress who meet the age requirements, starting annuities range from about 8.5% of final annual pay after 5 years of service to 34% after 20 years, plus 1.0% for each year of service beyond the 20.

According to the Congressional Research Service, Members of Congress retiring under FERS had an average age of 69.0 years with 21.8 years of federal service. Their average annual retirement annuity was $35,952 in 2006.

I was always wondering why the German system was never discussed in Congress. It is a melange of private and public. One has a choice to go with the private or a public option. One company, for example, is Erbarmer Ersatz.

Ron is exactly correct. The do as I say, not as I do, doesn't get it with me. When President Obama and Congress say we are the first to go on the Public Option, if it is passed, and be honest about it, my opinion will change slightly. Also, just don't play the taxpayer and say it is deficit neutral. Tell us how much it is going to cost us over the next ten years. No BS about pulling the corruption out of the system, that has been said since Pres. Reagan. Do it first to prove that you have the political will to do so, it really shouldn't be that difficult if you are serious.
Has anyone considered what is going on next year with the sunsetting of President Bush tax cuts? This will be a tax increase in addition to everything else increasing the taxes to pay for these programs.

Ron,
You are right 100%, I agree with you 100%.

Some of the voters in this country "Bought A Pig In A Poke" when they voted for the administration.

Some of us did not accept this veiled attempt to sell a grab bag to us!

Obama, proof some of the people can be fooled all the time!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by m551sheridan:
To long to post and I am not that modivated to do so but you folks need to "Google" *congressional benefits* and see what they get and do not get.... way to many misconceptions. CSRS, FERS, multiple health plan options to name a few..
===============================================
I never mentioned S/Security. I don't care what thier options are. They must be a heck of a lot better than what they are trying to shove down our throats or they wouldn't have made thierselves seperate from this plan and keep thiers. They wrote themselves out of this one so they never have to use it.. Something very fishy there, I just can't understand why Democrats are so blind they can't see that.
The Politicians don't want any part of what they are trying to shove down our throats. If they had to be a part of it they would puke it back up. Way to Go Dems....

They are not trying to shove anything down any one's throat. What they have discussed is offering plans to those who do not have them at work, and requiring all people to have health insurance. They want to make sure you have the same choices they do - affordable health insurance. Congress has the same plans that all who work in the civilian US government sector have, insurance choice.

I would like to see the plan allow individuals and small companies to buy the same plans that are offered to those employed by the US government. That would be real choice.

quote:

Originally posted by EOCRon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by m551sheridan:
To long to post and I am not that modivated to do so but you folks need to "Google" *congressional benefits* and see what they get and do not get.... way to many misconceptions. CSRS, FERS, multiple health plan options to name a few..
===============================================
I never mentioned S/Security. I don't care what thier options are. They must be a heck of a lot better than what they are trying to shove down our throats or they wouldn't have made thierselves seperate from this plan and keep thiers. They wrote themselves out of this one so they never have to use it.. Something very fishy there, I just can't understand why Democrats are so blind they can't see that.
The Politicians don't want any part of what they are trying to shove down our throats. If they had to be a part of it they would puke it back up. Way to Go Dems....

Its that pesky logic that gets them every time. Like we can spend our way out of a $13B debt. I have asked for an answer to that one for some time. The left doesn't seem to want to respond.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave_M:
They are not trying to shove anything down any one's throat. What they have discussed is offering plans to those who do not have them at work, and requiring all people to have health insurance. They want to make sure you have the same choices they do - affordable health insurance. Congress has the same plans that all who work in the civilian US government sector have, insurance choice.

I would like to see the plan allow individuals and small companies to buy the same plans that are offered to those employed by the US government. That would be real choice.

Small corrrection, make that all legal citizens and not to the tune of $2T in new taxes as Harry Reid stated. Start small and get those in need help, show us how the government can get the fraud out of Medicare/Medicaid first, then I'm on board with you. Don't destroy the best medical system in the world for a few.

quote:

Originally posted by RogerCollins:

quote:

Originally posted by EOCRon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by m551sheridan:
To long to post and I am not that modivated to do so but you folks need to "Google" *congressional benefits* and see what they get and do not get.... way to many misconceptions. CSRS, FERS, multiple health plan options to name a few..
===============================================
I never mentioned S/Security. I don't care what thier options are. They must be a heck of a lot better than what they are trying to shove down our throats or they wouldn't have made thierselves seperate from this plan and keep thiers. They wrote themselves out of this one so they never have to use it.. Something very fishy there, I just can't understand why Democrats are so blind they can't see that.
The Politicians don't want any part of what they are trying to shove down our throats. If they had to be a part of it they would puke it back up. Way to Go Dems....

Its that pesky logic that gets them every time. Like we can spend our way out of a $13B debt. I have asked for an answer to that one for some time. The left doesn't seem to want to respond.

there's a lot of people who only get paid minimum wage and can't affort health insurance and when their family members get sick they have to go to the emergency room which costs alot! more than if they had health insurance, stop listening to those conservative loony's who only want to make lots of money for themselves off the shows! they entertain! us with. how can any one with a decent heart be against another human being having health insurance, did anyone feel! good when president bush vetoed! health care coverage for CHILDREN?? does anyone realy think that this great country is doing the right thing when we have theivfs on wall street and in corporations stealing millions and billions of our retirement money and we can't provide health care to children right here!! in america, shame on anyone who does not have enough compassion to show the moral values which this country was built by of people working together to help each other as good neigbors and to make this country great again. the greed on wall street and from corporate ceo's has been a bad example of how we should treat each other, also most of the millions and billions of dollars that those on wall street that rewarded each with multi million dollar bonuses (for what they get any rewards when they don't produce anything is beyond my comprehension), but that money belongs to all of us as our retirement money is invested in the hub of a redistribution of wealth called the stock market.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: big_red_1,

quote:

Originally posted by RogerCollins:
Ron is exactly correct. The do as I say, not as I do, doesn't get it with me. When President Obama and Congress say we are the first to go on the Public Option, if it is passed, and be honest about it, my opinion will change slightly. Also, just don't play the taxpayer and say it is deficit neutral. Tell us how much it is going to cost us over the next ten years. No BS about pulling the corruption out of the system, that has been said since Pres. Reagan. Do it first to prove that you have the political will to do so, it really shouldn't be that difficult if you are serious.
Has anyone considered what is going on next year with the sunsetting of President Bush tax cuts? This will be a tax increase in addition to everything else increasing the taxes to pay for these programs.

i've read and heard news stories that the goverment is! using organized crime tactics to go after fraud and abuse on wall street and against those who are committing madicare fraud. i don't know how anyone!! can give an exact figure how much something will cost for ten years the way prices are going sky high on everything!!! i don't even know how anyone can tell how much something will cost for just one year for that matter, but i think health care will cost alot!!!! more in ten years, if we don't fix it now, much much more then any predictions! of what it will cost to fix it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: big_red_1,

quote:

Originally posted by Dave_M:
They are not trying to shove anything down any one's throat. What they have discussed is offering plans to those who do not have them at work, and requiring all people to have health insurance. They want to make sure you have the same choices they do - affordable health insurance. Congress has the same plans that all who work in the civilian US government sector have, insurance choice.

I would like to see the plan allow individuals and small companies to buy the same plans that are offered to those employed by the US government. That would be real choice.

that is true Dave but do remember the plans available range from the very good (expensive) to the not worth a schit (cheap)... those on the outside making minimum wage could most likely afford only the lower end options. The upside? Allowing all to participate would cause prices to become lower..... so those who would say Congress and the Senate should have the same plan they want for everyone else are not realising there are many dozen's of options available. The best bet is to allow all into the same pool that is available for all federal employees. MHO anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by big_red_1:

quote:

Originally posted by RogerCollins:

quote:

Originally posted by EOCRon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by m551sheridan:
To long to post and I am not that modivated to do so but you folks need to "Google" *congressional benefits* and see what they get and do not get.... way to many misconceptions. CSRS, FERS, multiple health plan options to name a few..
===============================================
I never mentioned S/Security. I don't care what thier options are. They must be a heck of a lot better than what they are trying to shove down our throats or they wouldn't have made thierselves seperate from this plan and keep thiers. They wrote themselves out of this one so they never have to use it.. Something very fishy there, I just can't understand why Democrats are so blind they can't see that.
The Politicians don't want any part of what they are trying to shove down our throats. If they had to be a part of it they would puke it back up. Way to Go Dems....

Its that pesky logic that gets them every time. Like we can spend our way out of a $13B debt. I have asked for an answer to that one for some time. The left doesn't seem to want to respond.

there's a lot of people who only get paid minimum wage and can't affort health insurance and when their family members get sick they have to go to the emergency room which costs alot! more than if they had health insurance, stop listening to those conservative loony's who only want to make lots of money for themselves off the shows! they entertain! us with. how can any one with a decent heart be against another human being having health insurance, did anyone feel! good when president bush vetoed! health care coverage for CHILDREN?? does anyone realy think that this great country is doing the right thing when we have theivfs on wall street and in corporations stealing millions and billions of our retirement money and we can't provide health care to children right here!! in america, shame on anyone who does not have enough compassion to show the moral values which this country was built by of people working together to help each other as good neigbors and to make this country great again. the greed on wall street and from corporate ceo's has been a bad example of how we should treat each other, also most of the millions and billions of dollars that those on wall street that rewarded each with multi million dollar bonuses (for what they get any rewards when they don't produce anything is beyond my comprehension), but that money belongs to all of us as our retirement money is invested in the hub of a redistribution of wealth called the stock market.

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. Karl Marx, he had dozens of these jewels along with Lenin.

You didn't answer my question on the huge debt in place and growing. Interesting forum name.

Trying to spend ones way out of debt makes as much sense as it does to take a loan out to pay their original debt off.

Unless, of course the second loan has a lower interest rate!