THE LAST SUPPER IN DETAIL

A zoomable 16 billion pixel image. If anyone's interested, other discussion on the painting is also welcomed.

One thing I've found interesting after reading the da Vinci Code (yes I know it's fiction), is the "extra" hand holding a knife which you can see on the left side of Jesus (after the third person from Jesus, below the fourth) - I never noticed it before, and although I've studied art history I don't remember it even being mentioned during discussions on the Last Supper.

I enlarged the pic. he definetly is holding a knife.

quote:

I enlarged the pic. he definetly is holding a knife.

What's your opinion on who the hand belongs to, judging by the painting?

One thought would be that it's Peter's hand (who struck the ear off the guard that came to take Jesus) - but note that da Vinci was known for his knowledge on anatomy, and he designed the Last Supper for four years.

I read the Book too and it was really good. I know it's fiction but it gives one allot to think about and or speculate!

I donno who is who in the painting except for of course Jesus but the hand holding the knife is wearing blue and the man holding the knife is leaning in to the person sitting next to Jesus.

Is that supposed to be Mary M.? It looks like a woman.

I heard that supposedly Judus wasn't in the pic and was out betraying Jesus at the time of the Last supper but could the person to Jesus's left be Judas? I think it's Mary M.

Also I noticed that the man sitting on the other side of Jesus only has one hand. I take it the other is suposedly under the table?

Why are the three men at the right side of the pic involved in their own discussion when all the others are like hanging on Jesus's every word?
(Except the woman/man next to Jesus who looks like they are about to faint. Who may or may not be Mary M. or Judas)


Either way this is very interesting!

That person looks like he's holding a bag, possibly Judas and his silver?

CoastGuardWife1,

quote:

I read the Book too and it was really good. I know it's fiction but it gives one allot to think about and or speculate!

I also enjoy books that get your imagination running, especially when they deal with actual history (I must recommend reading Mika Waltari's Sinuhe The Egyptian, which has been praised even by egyptologists, but is still almost completely fiction).

quote:

I donno who is who in the painting except for of course Jesus but the hand holding the knife is wearing blue and the man holding the knife is leaning in to the person sitting next to Jesus.

Is that supposed to be Mary M.? It looks like a woman.

I heard that supposedly Judus wasn't in the pic and was out betraying Jesus at the time of the Last supper but could the person to Jesus's left be Judas? I think it's Mary M.

I try not to limit the interpretations, but I will say that the Bible says Judas was at the table (Matt 26:20–25, Mark 14:17–21, Luke 22:14, John 13:21–22).

The person on Jesus's right side does look very much like a woman, and Mary Magdalene was often depicted as having red hair - but I'd also point out that John the Baptist was often depicted as a very woman-like youth (in a later painting by da Vinci as well, although not as woman-like). I don't remember whether it was a blue or red robe Mary was most often depicted in, but I'll try and find out.

quote:

Also I noticed that the man sitting on the other side of Jesus only has one hand. I take it the other is suposedly under the table?

Why are the three men at the right side of the pic involved in their own discussion when all the others are like hanging on Jesus's every word?
(Except the woman/man next to Jesus who looks like they are about to faint. Who may or may not be Mary M. or Judas)

I've nothing to add to these comments yet (hopefully someone will have), other than because of what you said I just now noticed all the people sitting at the table (except for Jesus) are in groups of three for some reason.


joedokes,

quote:

That person looks like he's holding a bag, possibly Judas and his silver?

Good catch. In addition, Judas was also the treasurer of the apostles.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe John the Baptist was already dead by the time of the last supper, and he was never a "follower" or disciple of Jesus' - he was the "one who prepared the way."

quote:

Originally posted by Cider33Alpha:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe John the Baptist was already dead by the time of the last supper, and he was never a "follower" or disciple of Jesus' - he was the "one who prepared the way."

Indeed you're correct! It is Apostle John who attended the last supper and was often depicted as woman-like (effeminate?). Thank you for the correction, I was way off there

CoastGuardWife1, I couldn't yet find out if Mary Magdalene was depicted more often in a red or blue robe, but I did find out that the robe in the painting is a male one. Of course, had it been a woman's robe, the church would not have tolerated the painting at that time - which would also explain why Leonardo's notebooks tell us it's supposed to be John even if it were not.

I'd like to add another observation, when looking at the hands of those at the table.

Jesus clearly points to the bread on the table, to which there seems to be a shocked reaction. According to the Bible what he said at one point was "Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me. ... It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it." - which would explain the reactions. There is also one person's hand reaching for bread at the same time.

It should make no difference how the Magdalene was depicted, since that would be a reflection of the trends during the artists' time, not necessarily those of Palestine during the time of Jesus and Mary. Mary (Jesus' mother) is usually depicted in a white undergown with a light blue robe - both colors not common to "common folk" during her lifetime. In addition, certain colors had specific significance (e.g., purple = royalty) and were restricted from general use either by policy or more informally because of the expense of the dyes needed to achieve them.

Da Vinci and others certainly had wide latitude to paint according to their understanding and to portray their artistic interpretations of biblical events - that often had little to do with historical accuracy.

As others have said here, it's important to be aware of those differences.

Cider33Alpha,

quote:

It should make no difference how the Magdalene was depicted...

Actually, I was referring to how artists in the time of Leonardo (also before and after him) generally depicted the people in the Bible. I think (guess) there were certain guidelines, so to speak, so that viewers would more easily recognise the people depicted.

Personally I do not think the person on Jesus's right side in the painting is Mary Magdalene for several reasons, a few of which are: 1. youths, including John, were often depicted as effeminate (in Leonardo's time), and in a later painting by Leonardo John is also depicted as quite effeminate (although not as effeminate); 2. Leonardo's notebook tells all the names of the people in the painting, although they may have of course changed in the final work; 3. the person is wearing a man's robe.

I'd also say the hand with the knife belongs to Peter, even if the position of the hand is somewhat awkward.

It is still interesting to consider the different interpretations, especially when even on this thread we've noticed that there are several things that indicate which one is Judas, but still Leonardo left some details in the painting open to interpretation deliberately (I say deliberately because of the years spent designing the work). He had been arrested by the church once before making this painting, so it would not be surprising that he left some symbolism open to different interpretations.

I do agree though, that historical accuracy and Leonardo's depiction of it are two different things.

Thanks I like to learn something new every day you have been most helpful!

quote:

Originally posted by 2nd_freedomfighter:
CoastGuardWife1,

quote:

I read the Book too and it was really good. I know it's fiction but it gives one allot to think about and or speculate!

I also enjoy books that get your imagination running, especially when they deal with actual history (I must recommend reading Mika Waltari's Sinuhe The Egyptian, which has been praised even by egyptologists, but is still almost completely fiction).

quote:

I donno who is who in the painting except for of course Jesus but the hand holding the knife is wearing blue and the man holding the knife is leaning in to the person sitting next to Jesus.

Is that supposed to be Mary M.? It looks like a woman.

I heard that supposedly Judus wasn't in the pic and was out betraying Jesus at the time of the Last supper but could the person to Jesus's left be Judas? I think it's Mary M.

I try not to limit the interpretations, but I will say that the Bible says Judas was at the table (Matt 26:20–25, Mark 14:17–21, Luke 22:14, John 13:21–22).

The person on Jesus's right side does look very much like a woman, and Mary Magdalene was often depicted as having red hair - but I'd also point out that John the Baptist was often depicted as a very woman-like youth (in a later painting by da Vinci as well, although not as woman-like). I don't remember whether it was a blue or red robe Mary was most often depicted in, but I'll try and find out.

quote:

Also I noticed that the man sitting on the other side of Jesus only has one hand. I take it the other is suposedly under the table?

Why are the three men at the right side of the pic involved in their own discussion when all the others are like hanging on Jesus's every word?
(Except the woman/man next to Jesus who looks like they are about to faint. Who may or may not be Mary M. or Judas)

I've nothing to add to these comments yet (hopefully someone will have), other than because of what you said I just now noticed all the people sitting at the table (except for Jesus) are in groups of three for some reason.


joedokes,

quote:

That person looks like he's holding a bag, possibly Judas and his silver?

Good catch. In addition, Judas was also the treasurer of the apostles.

Definitely an odd hand holding a knife, that's for sure.