Ever since 9/11 the Bush administration has moved heaven and earth to improve America's security against terrorist attacks. Among o0ther things, President Bush has:

Created the Deparment of Homeland Security;

• Beefed-up passenger security through the TSA at commercial airports;
  
• Created some very restrictive no-fly zones at various locations around the country;
  
• Beefed-up the CIA, FBI, NSA and almost 2 dozen other intelligence agencies and greatly revised the way that they share information and co-ordinate their activities;
  
• Greatly relaxed restrictions that were formerly imposed on these several agencies with regard to the way they conducted their domestic spying activities on Americans;
  

Greatly revised and/or restricted individual rights with regard to arrest and detention, habeus corpus, guarantees of legal representation, a legal court hearing, release from jail/prison, or even the listing of formal charges against a person being detained.

So with all of the above as a backdrop for this discussion, the question now becomes: Is America more secure today than we were prior to 9/11? I believe that it was Benjamin Franklin who once said, "Those who would exchange their freedoms in favor of security deserve neither, and shall likely lose both in the bargain."

Well I, for one, do not feel more secure today than I did prior to 9/11. What I feel, if anything, is simply being put-upon by an all-powerful, overreaching centralized government. What about you? Are you feeling more secure today than you did prior to 9/11; or simply put-upon? You know, there are some very important Constitutional issues involved here. So let's have some discussion on this very important topic. I'd like to get all Americans to participate in this one, but most certainly we need to hear from our armed-forces and our veterans on this topic. So SOUND-OFF! Let's hear what you've got to say?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sidewinder123,

I feel more secure, and I at the same time I don't believe any of my freedoms have been taken away through the examples you provided. I feel the biggest erosion to my personal freedoms is over taxation and frivolous fees for silly stiff with in my community and town. Like the fact I have to get a $5.00 permit to have a yard sale. Though, after checking the ordnance is written wrong, its still a law that establishes what I can and can’t do in my own yard with out the local town councils approval.

If you’re an ordinary guy and commit a crime, I don’t think your gonna be denied council or rights based on the Patriot Act. The local police might screw you over, because of incompetence, or a slap happy DA looking to make a name for himself (Mike Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse Case), which in itself, thoe kids had good lawyers looking out for them. They weren’t denied anything because of the Patriot Act.But if you’re a person of interest in and on-going terrorist investigation, you might have something to worry about.

Just today on the news, it was stated that almost every terrorist organization out there, has contacts living in New Jersey. So what does that tell you? So on that note, some restrictions had to be relaxed for domestic surveillance on people that are still coming here, possibly plotting to do us harm. I don’t think the Gov is spying on every Joe Schmoe out there, or they would have shut down everything a long time ago. I don’t think they are the big evil brother some make them out to be. Unless my taxes go up, with out popular vote. Anyway, that’s my thoughts so far.

Very good post Brandon. Four paws up from Abraham.

I think we are more secure. The big hole in our security situation is immigration and border security. They took too long to identify the most pressing threat, 28 years, but we got the wake up call. I don't care who listens to my phone calls. I don't care if I can't travel to Cuba or Syria. I want all immigration stopped now. The tactics are infiltrate, agitate, and seperate. It has worked in numerous countries.
We wouldn't have increased internal monitoring if we didn't let our enemies in to begin with.
Treaties are going to be our downfall.

No, not really considering the administration has managed to piss off the entire planet.

I do feel much safer now!!! And i agree immigration as got to stop...do it legally or don't do it at all!!!!

I still feel the same as I did before 911 for the most part. Yeah the government has made a bunch of fancy new departments and stuff. Which actually helped bring new jobs. I would just say that we are more aware and more willing to react faster. It's all good having all the security and things but I think intelligence and continue to work hand and hand with other nations is the key factors. In my opinion I believe we have become paranoid overall.
Oh and about the immigrations thing. That has been going on forever. I think in the end the goverment will put a band aide over it but the problem will not be fixed. We maybe able to slow it down, but we will never stop it. As long as people less fortunate see that the grass is greener on the other side they will come.

Norm,
Thats a cool avatar!

Good post Golgath

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

...Or fix it.

Sorry I don't have a redneck bumper sticker icon to go with that. I'll work on it.

I certainly won't be saying "America: Love it or leave it" if Hillary gets elected - Will you?

quote:

Originally posted by joshuacarnes:

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

...Or fix it.

Sorry I don't have a redneck bumper sticker icon to go with that. I'll work on it.

I certainly won't be saying "America: Love it or leave it" if Hillary gets elected - Will you?

hows this?

That'll work.

quote:

I want all immigration stopped now. The tactics are infiltrate, agitate, and seperate. It has worked in numerous countries.

The above just about sums it all up.

Stop immigration, search out and find the ones here in violation, send them and thier famalies home.

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

quote:

Originally posted by joshuacarnes:

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

...Or fix it.

Sorry I don't have a redneck bumper sticker icon to go with that. I'll work on it.

I certainly won't be saying "America: Love it or leave it" if Hillary gets elected - Will you?

hows this?

Do you have stacks on your pickup? You ain't redneck unless you got stacks on your pickup. Hey, might as well paint that git John Deere green while you're at it.

Man, I remember one WestPc while me and the guys were sitting on a Mid-Watch on gun quarters (.50 Cal). We were all deprived of sleep and getting bored with the regular traffic. We started contemplating on how to turn our ship into a true redneck tincan. By the end of the night, we had a hitch, pinstripe swirls, semi stacks, a fifth wheel, gun racks in the bridge, flying the Confederate, a huge beltbuckle on the bullnose, and so many other things that I cannot even remember. Yes, there were more than a few Texans on watch that night. But, it is one of those memories that I will always remember. Those were some of the greatest moments in my life. In and of themselves, they were the chittiest as far as when I was going through it. But, today they are the REAL things that I remember. Man, I miss them F-ers.

quote:

Originally posted by sidewinder123:

quote:

Originally posted by Golgoth:
I think we are more secure. The big hole in our security situation is immigration and border security...
...I want all immigration stopped now. The tactics are infiltrate, agitate, and seperate. It has worked in numerous countries...

Come on here, guys. I know that it's tough having to learn how speak English, but we really need to try.

Several people here have said that immigration is a problem, but it really isn't. Immigration is what people do to get into this country. My mother immigrated over here back in the '30s. There is nothing wrong with immigration per se. To be perfectly legal one must apply to the State Dept. for a visa or a permit of some kind - people do it all the time and it's okay.

I think what these people are trying to say is that the infiltration accross our borders by illegal aliens is a problem. That is very correct! I think someone has stated that literally thousands of undocumented illegal aliens cross our borders every day! That's not a problem - that's an INVASION! Our borders are so poreous that I'm beginning to wonder why we even bother to go through the motions of hiring Border Patrols and station Border Guards and Customs people at the checkpoints?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: AirDefndr1968,