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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events General Discussion NROTC is not all it is cracked up to be|
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Member |
Keep us posted. This is very interesting.
Your list did not include your state senator. Have you not spoken with him/her? To be on the safe side (regarding getting your son a college education) have you checked into private universities. With really good scores, they are handing out money that makes it more affordable than some public universities. "They love our milk and honey but they preach about some other way of living When you’re running down my country, Hoss you’re walking on the fighting side of me" - - Merle Haggard |
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Experienced Member |
Okay, I'll admit to being wrong on the ISR. It must be a relatively new program. However, why wasn't the detachment ever mentioned or approached once? It really isn't that hard for a scholarship. Even if you can't get one the first go around, most detachments have allocations they can award for the second semester on. |
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New Member |
Contacting the detachment only recently (within the last two weeks) happened. We were led to believe they would know nothing about this kid because he was awaiting the wavier results - that we should wait on those before contacting the detachment. Once we did get through to the detachment, it was true, they knew very little about him or the situation. They told my son they contact new assignees in July, so nothing was unusual to them as far as being in contact. In the past month we have been looking into other things besides the military. The GI Bill transfer is looking great, so that might be the way to go. We were really focused on the instant job NROTC offers after graduation but that may not be the best way to go for my son to get a job after college. We are still waiting to hear the results of this last wavier....this whole thing has take too damn long - but has provided a lot of learning on our part. Now that the detachment knows about him, it may be helpful. Thanks for wondering about that. |
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Experienced Member |
I wouldn't give up on the detachment. As I stated before, there are lots of last minute scholarships awarded. My nephew is a case in point. Usually, if the kid is good enough to get into the school, he should also be good enough to get the scholarship as the entrance criteria academically are pretty similar. Also, consider this last part, although scholarships are awarded in the fall, many of them are not accepted as the persons involved start to realize the magnitude of their decision. This leaves the detachements with an use or lose situation, so in July and August, they scramble for last minute augmentees to fill out the scholarship slots they have been awarded. |
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WildFlowerLady:
Apparently you haven't been informed, this is no longer your country. It belongs to the New World Order. Most of our politicians endorse it. Your son is white, so he doesn't count. This happened to me 35 years ago. Minorities got the gravy, I got the mud. Dr. Michael Savage had the same problem, but he surrpassed those who tried to destroy him. Your son will succeed where others don't, but he'll have to work harder. Look at our major cities and you will know our socialist elite are in the process of destroying our greatness. These cities are no longer yours. These elite, call them whatever name you choose, but they are not only destroying our cities, but are civil liberties. As Ronco says, never vote for an incumbent. Their idea of greatness is our destruction. It is hard to believe what I just said so just look around. Good Luck |
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Member |
Whoa, whoa.
What's the problem here? Now unless something's drastically changed the Navy isn't giving away $180,000 scholarships to just anybody that walks in off the street. Your kid is 15 yrs old when this started? Assuming a normal graduation age of 18, that means a recruiter's got 3 yrs before the kids even eleigible to sort this out. Not exactly a priority in anybody's book, especially when there are other applicants here and now that can use your limited resources (a recruiter's time and money). Had your kid even taken his SAT's/ACT's? Students usually take them at 16 and they are a hard and fast requirement for these scholarships. On paper, your son might look like the best thing since sliced bread but if he can't get a good enough score on a fairly standard test, then the CO was right to withold: he's just not the right candidate for the job. You said you didn't pursue other scholarship options. Why? Do you have too much money? Did you have some sort of promissary note from somebody saying you were going to get the money? If you don't have anything in hand then why count on it? NROTC scholarships only cover books and tuition. Is your son not going to have any living expenses? Is he not going to drive to school? Is he not going to eat? You're just leaving money on the table. Apparently your son has all sorts of potential so make you need to make sure you use it. Leave the generosity to those who can afford it and make sure your son gets the education he deserves. As far as the affirmative action insinuation is concerned, if the CO's prerogative is that he wants to promote minority candidates then that's GREAT as far as I'm concerned. Ever looked at the disparity between the officer and the enlisted ranks? How come, proportionally, there are so many more minority enlisted folk on the mess decks? Where are all the black, hispanic and Asian officers? Why aren't there more of them in the wardroom? |
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New Member |
Fankhouser - thanks for your thoughts. My family is not yet where you are in conclusions, but I am aware you are not alone with such thoughts.
As for you Frank A: Age wise, my son is qualified - on target and worth the time/money these so call recruiters have given. The recruiters tried unsuccessfully to disqualify him due to age – research completed, he’s old enough. SAT scores and the like - you bet he is way more than competitive on that end. He took the SAT first at 14; at 13 began taking college classes; and from the looks of his most recent AP notification, he can enter college as a sophomore - AP scores of 4s and 5s allow for more college credit. That CO had no reason other then his own agenda to withhold the application - although he did try several times to use some other ill-fated disqualification excuses. We were confident thanks to letters, paperwork and verbal communication that there was no need to be greedy and pursue other scholarship means - the question there becomes, why take scholarship money from others if you don't have to? Lessons learned here, you bet! We will do things differently with son #2 – but we won’t be greedy. The rest of the finances will be taken care of through ole fashioned employment – how do you think he got through the expenses of senior year, of select soccer, or a girlfriend? There’s no scholarship money for that!! In the grand scheme of things for generic employment, I’d say a company does well with their workforce when it is filled by employees with proper qualifications and actually represents population figures for the given area. If a group of people are actually a minority, that means there are FEW of them, so in terms of employment, I would expect to see FEW employed, not MANY. A minority group, just by definition, does not have many members and of that group, naturally would have a handful actually qualified for any given employment. Example – my being female should not get me into a welding job on that specification alone. I need to know welding and be damn good at it – just because a welding operation does not have a woman working there does not mean I should get the job – the employer happy with hiring a woman and thinking teaching will come later….the diversity “need” met, but at what cost? The US workforce is becoming less worthy thanks to notions like these. Where you are asking about mess deck numbers and wardroom numbers, I’d suggest we study behavior, education, ability, and desire – all of which play huge roles in the number differences. Do I want a military workforce with employees who are not the most qualified but meet those feel good racial quotas? Based on quotas alone, that would not be wise at all and I believe the US military needs to be very careful and sustain a qualified workforce. If Affirmative Action does not get in the way of meeting qualifications - I'd believe the program would be a decent tool - trouble is AA does not care about pure and simple qualifications.... |
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Experienced Member |
Your first mistake is going through a recruiter. Recruiters are rewarded by the number of enlisted recruits they get to join. Officer candidates are not part of their quota. As such, they have no real incentive to help you. Also, they are often misinformed and wrong about officer accession programs. If you REALLY want your child to have a scholarship, then go through a detachment and through NROTC itself. Stop going through the recruiters because you are wasting your time with them. Also, finally, realize that your son is applying for an officer training program and not for an enlistment. Two completely separate communities. |
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New Member |
Sorry, not a mistake, a must for our area.... Side note: Enlistment has not been part of this story except to wonder how many waivers have been issued in the various military groups and to wonder how differently applicants are accepted. As a spouse who spent the first 10 yrs of my husband's 20 yr career within the enlisted community, I am well aware of the separate communities. The application process, in our area, goes through the recruiters who work out of the district office which organizes all the area's military recruitment programs (enlisted and officer) from what I gathered, someone's idea on saving money, put everyone in one location - no choice in that matter. Once finalized, everything gets handed over to the NROTC detachment at the college once the paperwork side is completed by the recruiters: waivers, reviews, boards and the like. We are still waiting on that to be done.... Oh yeah, I know how misinformed recruiters are, however that's the group our area must work with..... the path an application takes: Apply. Get assigned to a recruiter. Get the recruiter to complete the paperwork, interview, medical exam.... Once done, the approved paperwork (aka awarded scholarship) is handed off to the college detachment. The detachment takes over from that point forward. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Wildflowerlady;
I will be going to DC sometime in November to protest the sorry Asssss leadership and throwing away of our money in this present day administration. I hope to get an interview with Nancy Pelosi. I will give her a copy of your email you just posted and have her contact you with some help. Please let me know if you would like for me to do this. You can come and join me with my protest sit down if you like. |
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New Member |
Duster - thanks for the reply.
Take whatever info you want - I won't stand in your way however I am not ready -yet- to become Cindi Sheehan like. I can see it happening one day, but right now I need to raise my boys and make the most of what we can in doing that. My absence from them to try and make a point for some yahoo in DC that does not listen won't get my #1 job done any better than my present effort. As a matter of fact, I tend to think what I am doing now (raising Christian Conservative minded boys who work hard to advance) flies in the face of those DC idiots -so I think my present sit-in is just perfect! You do well there - let us know how it goes! |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Hey Duster! Can I go?  Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Of course you can go but you must have a sign to carry and bring allot of cash because I hear it is very expensive to eat, drink, and sleep in DC.
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Highly Experienced Member |
OK, I will make a sign.
What are the size requirements for the sign? I have a pair of pants with a lot of pockets and can carry lot's of cash. What size bills do you recommend? Do they let you bring food in? Some theaters don't and I think they might have the same rule. What do I write on my sign?   Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? |
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Member |
Wildflower lady, If I read your story correctly, your son was finally denied because of asthma, that is non-waiverable in all the services and he could not even join as an enlisted person. If I did not read it correctly I apologize.
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Highly Experienced Member |
On your sign I want you to write something good that Pelosi, Barney Frank, Harry Reid, or Obama have done good for our economy over the last 120 days. |
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Member |
That's funny you say we should study all of these reasons because we have. Repeatedly. And what those studies have shown is that minorities have routinely been shut out and discriminated against when it comes to jobs, housing, education, etc. (LINK>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action) And funnily enough, one proven way to help minorities forward is to provide them with a leg up when it comes to accessing things like funds for higher education. I'm sure you feel that your little cherub should've been signed off the very minute everyone saw the halo on his little christian conservative head. You're obviously very proud of his accomplishments. In your eyes he is very very special. But that CO is not his mommy. That CO has a job to do. His job is to field the best qualified candidates this year. And while it's cute that the kid wants to be a naval officer, 15 yr olds change their minds lots of times. Some want to be cowboys, some want to be firemen, etc., etc. I'm sure you understand why recruiters don't drop everything every time some kid takes it into their head to ask abt a commission. The difference between 15 and 18 is three long years and frankly, those people need to handle the officer candidates who can benefit from the scholarship now. Your son is no doubt the center of your world but in the military he's just another application. I'm sure you feel everyone was out to get you (inexplicably). But the truth is that at the time he applied (15 according to your story) he just wasn't a priority. Another question I have is why are you fixated on the ISR (Immediate Select)? If, in your eyes, he's qualified enough for the ISR then he should be qualified enough to score a scholarship in the regular pool. Seems to me the simple answer would be to send him up for the ISR at 15, at 16, at 17, and if he still doesn't get it then he still has a shot with at the regular pool at 18. It all amounts to the same thing, moneywise. Basically, as far as I can tell, you're mad because the Navy didn't drop everything to stop and throw money at a 15 yr old? Really? Look, here's the short version of what I'm saying: NROTC is a GREAT program. It's full of great people who are trying to do their very best to find the best qualified candidates. If your son isn't up to the challenge of dealing with Naval bureacracy right now, before he's even IN the Navy, maybe he'd better think of another line of work. I'm sure it's very frustrating as a loving parent. You should be proud of your kids. All of you have worked very hard to get where you are. But we're talking about $180,000 here and these recruiter's main responsibility is to be very careful stewards of these scholarships. If your son is as bright and/or deserving as you say, then it'll work out. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
That's gonna leave a lot of room on the sign.  What else do you want me to put on it? Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? |
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New Member |
As far as I can tell, that big ole chip on your shoulder is getting in the way of you seeing our frustration. The local navy office did everything they could to keep this kid from progressing - why? Basically, so they could keep discrimination alive. All said and done - yes, someone's view of what they think his lungs are capable of will most likely be the end to all of this - thankfully though he did have the warewithall to fight through the discrimination - unlike your conclusion mentions. Not long ago when the more expensive college got wind of what the NROTC program was doing with his app, he was issued a $44,000 scholarship - but that location is so expensive, we needed to supply another $44,000 for him to attend - we couldnt afford it. So, yes, we know he is marketable within other programs. This won't be the end to finding support for scholarship money. Im sure at times, NROTC is perfect for many who are not touched by the problems we mentioned. |
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Member |
Seems to me, I'm not the only one with a chip on my shoulder. (I have to confess I am a graduate of UCLA, with the help of an NROTC scholarship. Go Bruins! I get a little defensive when it comes to both UCLA and NROTC)
But your post says what? Short version: Your kid was white. He didn't get a special scholarship cuz he's white(?) (It's not that he didn't get any scholarship, it's that he didn't get the special one? ISR?) So, problem resolves itself and later, when he does get flagged with asthma, you still have a problem with NROTC and you're saying that it's racially discriminatory. Is that the gist of it? C'mon. You sound like a smart lady. Clearly, what you're claiming doesn't add up. Let me tell you from my point of view. When I went through NROTC about 10% of the students in my unit were selectees from the enlisted ranks. There was around 10 of us who had a similar story. Not having money for college upon graduation, we had enlisted first, served a few years and then applied for the program. Now here's the thing: Using your rationale, I could've been parading around here claiming that NROTC had a bias against Hispanics, that it wasn't fair, that all they're trying to do is hold the brown man down. OR I could simply accept the fact that, as a program, NROTC is trying to do the best it can. They have a lot of applicants. Fact is, they try their best. Sometimes they mess up but most times they get it right. Look, I don't want to pick on you. Clearly, you and your husband are trying your best. There's all kinds of ways to get money for college. Don't be afraid of a little debt. Student loans never killed anyone (heck, even our president had to take out a ton of student loans). I'm not going to lie to you. Affording college is going to be hard but you can do it. You and your family will be fine. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank_A_Valdez, |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events General Discussion NROTC is not all it is cracked up to be
