Has anyone else read the following story?

navytimes.com/news/2007/08/navy_scholarship_070828w

We not only read it, but are living it and rather ticked off by the whole situation.

A year ago in February, my then 15 yr old son and student at a local public high school began the process of applying for a Navy ROTC scholarship worth $180,000. He talked at great length with recruiters and military members alike. With his Dad serving in the Navy this seemed like a natural match. All told, the combined military experience between our families comes to about 150 yrs of service reaching back to the Civil War, I believe.

Despite the family history, my son's interest in serving our nation in the military is his own without pressure or pushing from his parents.



The NROTC research started in Feb 08 resulted in us learning that NROTC had a special program called Immediate Select (ISR) which allowed the regional recruiting office to pick one application and tell the Navy this person is our choice to fast track - meaning that application get automatic approval, is awarded the $180,000 and moves on to the medical review. Few within service are aware of the program, what it is for, or how to apply it.



Knowing my son was going to apply for the scholarship, he was paired up with a recruiter in the local office who walked him through the application between March-May 2008. From the get-go we asked about Immediate Select. The recruiter learned that my son was an AP scholar athlete, graduating in the top 10% of his class, had several community connections and would be graduating a year early - meeting all ISR requirements.

My son's completed application was submitted the first week in May 2008 hoping for the ISR designation.



At first, my son's age came into question - a possible disqualification. We did not think much of it – however this was the first of many disqualification attempts. He completed the in-house interview that was needed and the assigned recruiter told us our son was their ISR (sometimes called ISD) pick.



Roger that, we were thrilled!



May 08 passed - by email and phone call we were told the ISR was his.



June 08 passed - by email and phone call we were still told the ISR was his.



Strange thing, in early July 08 we asked about getting the medical exam completed after waiting through June, giving the local office some time to get things in place. No response on the medical side, however we were told another in-house interview was needed. This was odd - usually that means the first interview did not go well and the candidate is given a second and final chance to get things right. But, during that first interview my son was told everything went really well and they were happy to give him the ISR selection.

This, we later learned was another attempt by the local office to disqualify my son’s application claiming the interview did not go well thanks to the officer conducting the interview not doing it right. A second interview was completed giving the same results: the ISR was still to be given to my son.



August 08 passed - by email and phone call we were told the ISR was his but no medical appointment information came our way.



By September 08, we thought something was wrong. A postal letter arrived in the mail saying my son's application was being sent into the general pool for scholarship consideration - somehow the ISR designation had been dropped. This put his application four months behind in consideration. The majority of the overall scholarship fund for the NROTC program had already been issued. Instead of having his application completed early, it was now late. We tried contacting the local office to no avail. Still believing the $180,000 scholarship was his, we watched other scholarship program deadlines pass by thinking money from those programs would not be needed so let others have it.



After some research on our own we discovered that ISR candidates usually bring in other, new candidates - my son was not recruiting others, was this the reason his application was held up? Still getting no response from the local office, we contacted the military program’s next in line POC at the National office.



Something was wrong. We learned the local office was holding my son's application - but why? By this time the application process was fully completed for others and scholarship money in total was awarded to them- what was going on with my son's application? At this point, it was sitting on the local recruiter’s desk for four months and counting.



At our request, a POC at the national NROTC office started looking into where my son's application was at. The CO at the local office was contacted by the national POC to give an answer. This did not go over well, at all, with that CO. He was not to be questioned by anyone, including his national level boss ....



The local CO had other motives in mind that he and his staff did not bother sharing with anyone until that phone call was made by the national POC.



****At this point in the story, I will interrupt to mention something. Our family believes diversity can thrive in any community and is something to find joy within, but we feel as though forced diversity can be detrimental to many situations including a workforce. Where employment is concerned, it seems to us, a colorblind system of finding the most qualified personnel creates the best workforce possible. So, it seems that employment equality should be based on ability and nothing more – consider everyone, employ the most qualified. We realize, especially since this experience, that not everyone sees things this way but that does not make us treat anyone any differently. At times, the rest of this story deals with this issue so additional racial descriptions become important - something I ordinarily would not feel the need to include. ******



During that phone call, it was learned that yes, indeed, my son was being told he was the local office's ISR candidate but actually he was not the candidate at all. The CO had told his staff early on that the ISR spot would be given to a qualified person of color and no one else. If a qualified person of color did not show up, no one would get it. The entire time my son’s application was sitting on the recruiter’s desk they were waiting for a person of color to show up, keeping the ISR spot open yet putting a stop to my son's application - all the while making us believe everything was on track.



The CO got angry with the National POC questioning his tactics. After all, the CO said, you -the National POC- should understand why I -the CO- have done this, you are black......and I -the CO- have taken it upon myself to make sure officer candidates from this office and beyond represent diversity.



The national POC did not see things the same way. He believes a qualified workforce is most important and in situations like this, forcing diversity just is not possible or even practical given there are few qualified people to consider.



The National POC told the local CO he could not pass on this application - the boy's qualifications and family support were rare and he needed to take what he could get.



The local CO was told to complete the interview process, make sure the qualifications were there and properly forward on the application.



My son, me and his father were called into the CO's office in October 08 for the final interview. He first spoke with the three of us, then excused my son, closed the door and spoke with us, the parents. I was very upset with the staff for holding on to my son's application making it late which meant less scholarship money was available. It was during this interview we learned the CO's motives.



He apologized for his staff's slow reaction to the application, but went on to tell us how important diversity was to him. He showed us a photo of his family, him being white and married to a black woman he needed to make sure his children's futures were set, not necessarily thanks to qualifications but skin tone. He believed the Navy did not employ enough diversity candidates and he was going to do all he could to make sure that changed, including keeping white kids like my son from being considered. He went on to tell us he would conduct the interview, only 20 minutes of his time would be given with my son and he would let us know the results by postal mail in a few weeks - he had no intention on having anyone interfere with his decision.



We kept our cool, saying very little. He knew I was beyond frustrated even mentioned my body language told him I was frustrated. I knew it was best to remain reserved - nearly 20 yrs of serving as a military spouse helped me do this. There would be a time and place to rectify/clarify this situation, but yelling at him now was not wise.



We were dismissed and my son was called in. The interview went beyond 20 minutes to about an hour if not longer. Once finished, my husband and me were called back in. Not only was this guy impressed with my son, the CO's entire stance changed. He could not believe how much my son had accomplished and knew the Navy could benefit from an employee like this.

This local CO went on to say had my son been a black boy, my son in the CO's view would be the Navy's most perfect candidate. That aside, my son was offered the scholarship on the spot, all $180,000 and was told his office would quickly progress the application on to the last step: the medical exam. If any further help was needed, my son was to contact him right away.



The paperwork and exam appointments were finally completed in January 09. We traveled two hours to complete the exam, which took less than 10 minutes. The DR completing the exam told my son everything looked good - no problems.



On the paperwork, my son listed asthma related issues before age 13 and a shoulder dislocation at age 15. Still, that DR said no red flags all seemed good.



Come late February 09, we got a letter in the postal mail stating the Medical review board wanted medical records from age 13 on.



As a result of those copies, we were told my son was disqualified due to asthma and a recurrent shoulder dislocation and for having braces on his teeth - but would be considered for medical waivers.



SAY WHAT??



We sent emails asking for further clarification, but no one replied. That CO who said he would help in any way, remained silent. We made phone calls, and were told by a POC in the review board office to supply the board with the requested copies all at once – as much information as can be provided. They would read everything.



With further research, we learned that the Naval Clinic's medical records copies list Asthma and Dislocation on EVERY page as part of the patients history making it look like these issues are current when they really are not. It is a flaw in the medical records software that has taken an act of congress to fix - literally.



We have gotten letters from my son's doctors stating he is healthy; he does not have recurrent problems. Right now, it is believed the medical review board is so overwhelmed with paperwork that they have not taken the time to actually READ the letters and record copies that has been provided. Because the questionable terms are listed on each page, disqualification is a must, even for waivers.



Again, we sent emails and made phone calls to get some help. The local recruiter’s office has remained silent. The only person interested in helping is the National POC – going so far as to telephone during his off time to talk with my husband about how to proceed within this situation.



College finance down payments were needed - will the scholarship money still be his? Which college should my son choose that he had been accepted to- the $25,000 per year school or $7,000 per year location? We can’t afford to pay $25,000 per year w/o scholarship support. What to do....what to do..... By now, time has expired to get other scholarship support.



As of late April 2009, the review board was saying the waivers will not be issued, so the application is fully disqualified and the $180,000 scholarship money is resended.

We were not going to stand for this situation of misdiagnosed results and lack of attention to detail. I phoned the director of the medical review board to voice my concerns. I phone several times and finally found him answering his phone. I directed him to where he could actually READ the paperwork - medical records, letters from athletic coaches and doctors - over 100 pages worth of supporting documentation showing my son was fit for duty.

Within a week, the disqualification claim on braces and shoulder dislocation was removed. The issue needing addressing was the asthma related disqualification - there were some questionable results on a few lung fuction reports.

The review board issued a request for further lab testing, which we are in the process of completing - some 17 months after this whole situation began. Despite his doctors (military and civilian) saying his is physically fit - the numbers listed on a lung funtion printout may very well be at issue.



At this late stage in the college calendar my son had to pick a school. We have no options left, so we can only afford the less expensive school.

This situation is not yet resolved and has left us with many questions.

Did the Navy make the most informed choice in disqualifying my son from the get go (remember there were at least three attempts to disqualify him)

Is there really a health issue at hand that should keep my son from military service?


Should we push these issues we have been forced to confront and insist that the Navy be upfront with diversity, that the review board READ the supporting documentation and more importantly consider DR opinion rather than numbers on a report?

Doesnt the Navy have both enlisted and officers serving with asthma related waviers? I wonder just how many.....

Would this put my husband's 20 year career at risk?

Should we get legal support?


What would you do?



Before answering, look again at the following news article - as shown here my son's story is NOT unique:

navytimes.com/news/2007/08/navy_scholarship_070828w





I tracked down and spoke with the mom mentioned in the story link above. She told me quite a bit, mentioning there are hundreds of students qualified for scholarship money but for some reason or another are treated so poorly - a group that may be tapped into for class action ligitation. She has a notebook full of names who are interested.

Legally speaking the following is of interest:

1. The Navy should have policies in place that properly define diversity and how it effects employees and applications/programs - uniform proceedures that all departments should follow.

2. The NROTC application process should be clearly described through expectations and timing, fully involving parents of 18 and under applicants. Recruiters should follow applicants through to the final decision.

3. During medical reviews, the Navy should make EVERY attempt to review submitted material before a disqualification is issued and be available for questions and concerns.

4. The Navy should be accountable for creating situations that make employees or applicants miss monitary educational opportunities.

IN the fall my son will begin his college education. We will find some way to pay the tuition. More than likely, the Navy will miss out on this potential employee thanks to paperwork issues. I am rather certian my son would be found qualified to serve if he enlisted no matter what the lung function printout says...... Despite physically proving fitness, Officers don't receive gray area scores on lung function print-outs.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Wildflowerlady,

Ma'am I read your post and the link. For concerns of policital correctness, I cannot comment other than the Bureaucratic SNAFU is to be expected. However, this is no news to you.

I would expect that you are more than ticked off, with full right to be.

BTW, ma'am, remove the link. It is against the TOS, I believe.

IF anything, I put this post in the wrong forum. If the link needs to be removed, Im sure one of the moderators will do so. The link is a big part of the story so I hope in considering that, mods will allow it to stay.

If readers find the link is missing, just email me and I will send it along. If I have to be kicked out of the forum all together, so be it -after my experience here there would be no surprise to me with such a response as being disqualified to post information.

I am not sure how long my post will remain online - the frankness of the story may be too much to stay visable. If just a few people become aware of what we went through maybe they will pass on the story's caution to other students who apply. Those students need details like this so they can be very intune to details and attention that might get missed when applying.

quote:

Originally posted by Wildflowerlady:
IF anything, I put this post in the wrong forum. If the link needs to be removed, Im sure one of the moderators will do so. The link is a big part of the story so I hope in considering that, mods will allow it to stay.

You missed the point! While your post may be valid, hotlinks ARE NOT ALLOWED on these fora; you can be banned from this site for posting unapproved hotlinks!

Approved hotlinks are those which:

• link back to these fora
  
• link to .mil sites
  
• link to .gov sites
  
• link to certain other similar sites previously approved for hotlinks (No, I can't recall what they are).
  

to "de-hotlink" your links, simply post the URL with an additional character such as an * at it's beginning or post the URL in color.

Wildflowerlady, when my son went through bootcamp at Parris Island, for whatever reason, I stressed and lost 20 lbs. If I was going through the crap you and your son are, I'd be down to my high school weight in no time.

I wish you luck and wish I had some answers for you.

Good luck,

Don

There are always points to be made, arent there?

Thanks for the help.

For now, there is no more blue linking text in the post.

quote:

Originally posted by KJ1110:

quote:

Originally posted by Wildflowerlady:
IF anything, I put this post in the wrong forum. If the link needs to be removed, Im sure one of the moderators will do so. The link is a big part of the story so I hope in considering that, mods will allow it to stay.

You missed the point! While your post may be valid, hotlinks ARE NOT ALLOWED on these fora; you can be banned from this site for posting unapproved hotlinks!

Approved hotlinks are those which:

• link back to these fora
  
• link to .mil sites
  
• link to .gov sites
  
• link to certain other similar sites previously approved for hotlinks (No, I can't recall what they are).
  

to "de-hotlink" your links, simply post the URL with an additional character such as an * at it's beginning or post the URL in color.

KJ, back to your "fora."

Me loves it

Thanks for the post. Weight loss would be a bonus - but for now, time loss and funding loss are at hand......

quote:

Originally posted by 21yrsUSCGUSCS:
Wildflowerlady, when my son went through bootcamp at Parris Island, for whatever reason, I stressed and lost 20 lbs. If I was going through the crap you and your son are, I'd be down to my high school weight in no time.

I wish you luck and wish I had some answers for you.

Good luck,

Don

quote:

Originally posted by 21yrsUSCGUSCS:
Wildflowerlady, when my son went through bootcamp at Parris Island, for whatever reason, I stressed and lost 20 lbs. If I was going through the crap you and your son are, I'd be down to my high school weight in no time.

I wish you luck and wish I had some answers for you.

Good luck,

Don

It only proves to have a back-up plan. Other avenues are open to the Officer Corps, other than ROTC, as well. But, the scholarship is the driving force.

quote:

It only proves to have a back-up plan. Other avenues are open to the Officer Corps, other than ROTC, as well. But, the scholarship is the driving force.

Indeed, we missed out on creating the back up plan with the eggs in one not so trustworthy basket- but maybe for good reason. If my son was issued the $180,000 in full faith like we believed, should he still try to collect other scholarship money, in turn allowing others to loose out?

After all this, does my son want to work for an organization that has issues like I describe? I have not asked him that yet. I think I will if this final wavier comes through. Nothing is perfect, but this scene seems to have more against it then anything else. In view of all this, I am amazed my husband's career (shoot all other folks as well) has lasted so long.

The Corps has its problems. It is a subset of the Dept of Navy. It's a huge organization with the same sort of politics that goes on in any large organization. Arse kissing, one of them.

The CO is arse kissing. He's adhereing and adpating.

I entered the Corps through an alternative path, thankfully.

I think it's good for your son to experience this and to continue on through NROTC, if that is his choice:

It will teach him that life ain't fair and agendas prevail. But, in the end, generally the right course is the result. It will also teach him how to work in a large (behemoth) organization and to persevere. The shortest distance between two points in the military is never the straight line.


The headscratching habit will become second nature. I use humor to get through the stupidity.

I'm glad you have brought light to this issue, though, Ma'am.

If it is your son's goal to pursue the military as a career recall, Was mich nicht umbringt macht mich starker. (What doesn't kill me makes me stronger).

quote:

Originally posted by Wildflowerlady:

quote:

It only proves to have a back-up plan. Other avenues are open to the Officer Corps, other than ROTC, as well. But, the scholarship is the driving force.

Indeed, we missed out on creating the back up plan with the eggs in one not so trustworthy basket- but maybe for good reason. If my son was issued the $180,000 in full faith like we believed, should he still try to collect other scholarship money, in turn allowing others to loose out?

After all this, does my son want to work for an organization that has issues like I describe? I have not asked him that yet. I think I will if this final wavier comes through. Nothing is perfect, but this scene seems to have more against it then anything else. In view of all this, I am amazed my husband's career (shoot all other folks as well) has lasted so long.

This was really screwed up process. It sounds a lot less standardized than normal enlistments - too many various offices not communicating with each other, and the CO is really given to much latitude in this scenario. You can't tell someone they have something, while holding out for another candidate, it's unethical.

For your own sake, don't ever believe anything the military says as far as getting in, until you have it in writing. Enlistees run into this kind of scenario every day, but most of us know the drill by now, don't believe it unless it's in a binding agreement (IE a contract.) It's not so much that recruiters have it in for you (that's rare though not unheard of) so much that if something gets screwed up on their end, they still owe you what you have in writing.

I wouldn't worry too much about the kid's school this year. A year's worth of student loans won't hurt him or the family. And it's probably a good idea to get adjusted to college work in general for a year, before getting into ROTC coursework. Will it be possible to apply for NROTC where he is currently enrolled? If not, there are other ways to get a commission in the military. I don't know all the Navy programs, but there's one called degree completion, or you can join after graduating. If he enlists after graduating, he could possibly get his loans repaid that way, and then go officer.

I would see if you could possibly work with another recruiting center in the future. Best of luck.

Something you should remember about this WFL is that the only unfounded attempt to not let him in was the CO's "diversity" issue. Everything beyond that your son will have to prove otherwise. You're on the right track. If it is still a problem, try going to another recruiter with a different CO.

The last part of your post is the most important. Asthma is an immediate disqualification from any branch. The only way to get a waiver for it is if you take a Lung Function test and pass it. If your son has taken this test and does not pass, sorry, but that's a disqualification. Remember that the military isn't an Equal Opportunity employer, they can turn down anyone that they see unfit for duty in any kind of way.

I hope that things go well and that you all find the answers that you need. I would suggest looking at other avenues for your son though.

Is there a Cliff Notes version of this story? Wow! That was long.

All I can say is, NEVER assume anything. The whole time you assumed your son had this scholarship.

Not assumed, but was told.

Being told and in writing are two different things. Nothing was in writing according to the information that you provided. As well as you knew that there was a medical evaluation that determined the final outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by Wildflowerlady:
Not assumed, but was told.

You said assume. I see you edited your story...

Wildflower,thats a shame what happened to your son!

Consider it a blessing and move on[yep without the 180 thousand nrotc deal].

Do you really want your son involved with the Navy or military after that garbage they did to your family?

Civilain life is good, I know I have been one for 23 years now and don.t miss the AF one bit LOL.

Maybe your son can get some funding some place else? Good luck and sorry that happened to you guys.

Ok, I'm calling BS on this one. First of all, rotc are officer candidates. As such, they don't "enlist" per se, but go through a board. I have never, ever heard of an ISR. ROTC isn't even handled by the recruiters. Rather, they have their own selection process. And before you all go in a huff and say this is navy versus AF, I had applied to all three programs and was accepted for all three. I've been through the process and this sounds fishy to me. Finally, you can always pick up a last minute scholarship by calling the rotc detachment at the university you are going to go to school. Case in point, my nephew was accepted to Johns Hopkins, but did not apply for the scholarship because he wasn't sure if he wanted to serve or not. He finally made his decision in May and called the rotc detachment at his school, in this case, Army. They fastracked his application through TRADOC and he was accepted for a four year scholarship three weeks later. I've had similar situations with other cadets in college who made decisions to join at the last minute and were awarded scholarships. So, I'm sorry, but I find this hard luck story to be suspect.

quote:

I have never, ever heard of an ISR. ROTC isn't even handled by the recruiters.

ISR aka ISD:
http://www.nnoa.org/pro_develo...ROTC_INSTRUCTION.pdf

http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/publi...ROTCGOALSFY08_09.pdf


NROTC Coordinators, many times located within recruitment offices:
https://www.nrotc.navy.mil/locate_coordinator.aspx

"Hard luck story" = six pound binder of paper trail work associated with the story, now pushing 18 months long and counting.

3 recruiters - yes that is what they are, business card supported.
6 doctors
2 coaches
4 teachers
1 national affiliate
1 washington director
2 frustrated parents

all pulling for 1 exceptional student. I call your BS bluff, Aggie....