I guess my question is fairly simple:
Has anyone gone, whether first enlistmet, reenlistment or prior service, from enlisted to OCS as an IWO.
Obviously college degree available with better than average grades.
Where would I be able to find a thread about IWO or their forums?
thanks guys

good gravy yes.. several of DH's fellow IWOs are former CTIs..SPALINGS, RULINGS that I know of for certain( his first XO was a RULING)

IWO is of course Secret Squirrel stuff. What exactly are you wanting as far as information? I will point him to this thread when he gets home from work. His screen name is Johnny_b, if you want to look up his past posts in the meantime. he may or may not be able to get on right away.. he getting ready to go IA.

Thanks Mrsjvb.
I want to learn a hard language i believe they are considered Cat IV and then after the follow up training in the crypto field I would like to continue as an IWO.
Now i guess my question should've have been posted properly.
Assuming one goes CTI enlisted out of college, what are the chances of picking up IWO right after CTI training schools, within the first 100-110 weeks or equally a couple months past two years, this is if picked for Cat IV language? I believe DLI is the first school they attend then they go to learn the crypto specialty, am I right?
Then from what i understand one would either go to AirCrew school or subs for training or Intel Centers, which if possible I would like to know more exactly which ones.
I'm understanding that they're pulling everyone away from overseas duty stations except Spain or did I misunderstand this completely?
Now how hard or easy do they make it for one to go IWO in their first enlistment/reenlistment(I'm prior Navy with no clearance)after college?
I know it's a lot but I'm starting graduate school right now and i'm in need of info, since I would like to start either the package for officer or go enlisted and just keep working on it while enlisted and hope i get.
Age is an issue also, will be 29 this winter.

quote:

Originally posted by 8832731:
Thanks Mrsjvb.

Assuming one goes CTI enlisted out of college, what are the chances of picking up IWO right after CTI training schools, within the first 100-110 weeks or equally a couple months past two years, this is if picked for Cat IV language? I believe DLI is the first school they attend then they go to learn the crypto specialty, am I right? Doubtful. DLI is a good year, minimum. I don't recall if any of the C schools are still operational. they won't even let you THINK about crossing to the Darkside without having some sense of how good an enlisted Sailor you are( took DH exactly 4 years and 2 OCS packages before he was selected)
Then from what i understand one would either go to AirCrew school or subs for training or Intel Centers, which if possible I would like to know more exactly which ones. DH has done neither. he was a surface guy all the way. His first duty station post NCBOC or whatever it was called back then was DIRSUP. Second was Sea duty. even has his SWO pin. Now he's at NIOC Suitland.
I'm understanding that they're pulling everyone away from overseas duty stations except Spain or did I misunderstand this completely? some of the NIOCS/CIDs have been reduced. Yokosuka( our first duty station) has been diminished somewhat I understand. Not sure what is left in Rota if anything, now that the squadrons are gone.
Now how hard or easy do they make it for one to go IWO in their first enlistment/reenlistment(I'm prior Navy with no clearance)after college? gotta qualify with the right Degree,the right GPA and the right Evals from your chain of command.
I know it's a lot but I'm starting graduate school right now and i'm in need of info, since I would like to start either the package for officer or go enlisted and just keep working on it while enlisted and hope i get.
Age is an issue also, will be 29 this winter.

What you want to do is unrealistic...sorry, but that's the truth. While it is possible to be picked up for surface warfare or flight while at DLI, being picked up for IWO isn't a possibility until you get several years of experience under your belt.

C-school is a thing of the past for CTIs...after DLI you go straight to your first duty station. IF you get flight orders, they will send you to aircrew school. You don't ever get to go to sub school as a CTI. From what I understand, no more billets for CTIs at Rota.

What do you really want to do? If you want to be a Naval Officer, there are other routes open to you than IWO. If you want to be a CTI, concentrate on that first and worry about the officer part later. If you really want to go into intel, there are other options open to you that don't require you to join the Military as a uniformed body. There are internship progams that allow you to get a clearance, go to military intelligence schools, and work your way up to a decent GG-level job in a few years.

IWOs are NOT better paid CTIs. CTIs are a very specialized group with skills that do not readily translate to the civilian world (or the rest of the intelligence community). If you want to learn a language for the sake of learning a language, then being a CTI is not the route you want. CTI can be a rewarding job for some and a miserable experience for others. Do your research on this forum and see for yourself if it sounds like something you would want to do...focus on that, NOT on becomming an officer, for right now.

To XSquiding
No need to be sorry i already had a good feeling of it being unreal, but my idea was that maybe IWO don't get to learn the CAT IV languages, they're mostly directed to the Romantic languages including in this lists also German.
As far as CTI's being a hard place or have a hard time with work, personally i think that's being unrealistic.
Try working from 0060 to 1800 on top of the flight deck as a jet mechanic then trying to go for lunch and people from your command tell you to leave your food on the table and go back on the flight deck to do a dual engine high power turn because you're the only one left qualified and when you complain about it they would remove the lunch break for everyone so now not only you don't have a right to have lunch (since the Navy only has the right to give you only breakfast before work and dinner after work) but now the whole shop is thinking of you as the reason they're suffering.
I'm not an idiot (I'm not directing this to you but to the options the Navy/officer recruiters might offer me)but even blue shirts and brown shirts which i did myself for almost six months have an easier job than jet mechanics afloat.
I do like CTI because i do like languages but i'm afraid the IWO don't get a chance to learn the hardest languages.
I believe I have the right background and i do want to be a Naval Officer but i'm pretty sure i couldn't be a Naval Pilot b/c of my sight and i don't want to be a Nuke b/c of limited choices in the civilian sector, even though i'm qualified to do both.
The thing where i don't agree with you is that you say that one should focus on becoming one but not the other, so i should focus on becoming a CTI but not an officer, not that you're wrong b/c being a CTI in itself is pretty demanding and thus reasonably enough would make it hard for someone to think about being an officer at the same time as working hard to get the right qualifications.
What i want to do (or wanted) is to get the foreign language out of the way and if the officer package would've gone through i would've wanted to go the OCS way.
But from what i understand, in my limited knowledge, is that if one in my position with a very dependable college degree goes in the Navy the enlisted way, will not be picked up by the officer program after the DLI, am i right?
How many of you out there in the CTI field know of a case like this or heard of?
I do like the idea of the internship program but since i'm in the graduate program for Mathematics right now i believe that by the end next year this time i will have my Master's and most likely that will open up a few more doors for me, not positive b/c competition is very stiff out there for the gov. jobs.
but oh well it just means that i'm going to have to suck it up and get on with it or just go in as an officer if the Navy will need me.

IWOs don't go to DLI period. they DO NOT get language training unless under very specific circumstances..as in the next billet they are going to REQUIRES it..Like Embassy duty.

None of the Ex CTIs that have gone IWO I know have ever used their language training again. except to order dinner at this Russian restaurant we found in Japan....

lol. that's funny. it kind of rains on my parade hear even though i have no idea what i want and probably it does sound extreme, but oh well, might as well start a package for an officer and if it goes through then fine and if not i'll try again.
but i believe the officer application package is the most important thing and if that doesnt work out either Army here i come

Is it possible to go from the enlisted CTI ranks to IWO via OCS? Of course it is. One friend (and OCS classmate) was a CTI1, low-desity Asian guy (Thai and Lao I think); another friend and colleague was a SPANLING who took time off to finish college. Another friend and colleague was an EWC (now CTT's) before he went to OCS and became an IWO.

In fact, out of the 5 guys in my OCS class that went IWO, I was the only non-prior CTx.

One former CO was a RULING and a former XO was an LDO who was a former RULING.

So all pretty much finished their first enlistment prior to going the Officer route. Which jives with what XSquidling said.

I personally was an FC coming up on my 4-year mark when I was picked up for IWO and went to OCS (already had my degree when I Enlisted). My degree in Mathematics and technical background from my time as an FC were big plusses in my favor.

If you already have your degree, have you considered applying directly to OCS for IWO? That is also an available option and I can easily point out examples of former colleagues that went exactly that route (OCS without any prior enlisted experience).

Well i'm going to need to talk to you in more detail then Johnny_B.
My degree is also in mathematics but my initial thread was about me wanting to pick up CTI and after DLI or while at DLI i would put in a OCS package and keeping fingers crossed i would've been picked up for IW.
Has that ever been done before since the age requirements are still in place and i'm already 28 yrs old?
I understand that IWO don't get to use the language in their 3-4 yrs is that correct?
Afterwards they do get a chance to go there, DLI, if they're up for FAO, which i have no idea what it is.
the only reason i wanted CTI is for the sign in bonus but being prior Navy and making use of the GI Bill i'm not even sure if i'm qualified for it anymore.
Anywho let me know some more cuz the enlisted recruiter who put me in hold of the officer recruiter is not giving a crap and the officer recruiter is saying that my info faxed over to him didn't get there????
Anywho i'm going to start by taking the ASTB but i'm also concentrating on my classes for the Masters degree in math and i think right now is to just go one step at a time and hope everything falls in place

At 28, your age is a non-issue right now. I enlisted at 28 and then was commissioned 10 days before my 33rd birthday. According to MILPERSMAN 1131-010 the age requirements for IWO (still listed as Cryptology) is, "At least 19 but under 35."

What I didn't originally mention is that I had applied for OCS twice. The first time was while I was at A-School in Great Lakes. That package didn't get me accepted. After 3 years, I put another package which, through my Evals, showed sustained performance at and above my paygrade. That history is what put me over the top and got me accepted, more than my degree or technical background. That's why XSquidling says expecting to be accepted for OCS while at A-school, or very shortly afterwards is probably unrealistic; you won't have that history of performance to make your package stronger. No one is saying, "Don't apply." We are just saying, "Don't be surprised if the answer is 'No' the first time you do apply."

FAO is Foreign Affairs Officer. You would become an expert in one country or region. It's one of the very few ways an Officer would pick up language training (the other being picked for an exchange program - which I know a couple that had).

You would have to ask your Recruiter about the enlistment bonus. I wouldn't be able to give you anything approaching an accurate answer on that one.

Take the initiative to get your information to the Officer Recruiter yourself; don't rely on the Enlisted recruiter to do it for you. The worst case scenario is you are providing info he already has. If they are reasonably local, go in and talk to them personally. Initiative in solving problems is one of the desired traits in the Officer community.

quote:

Originally posted by XSquidling:
IWOs are NOT better paid CTIs. CTIs are a very specialized group with skills that do not readily translate to the civilian world (or the rest of the intelligence community). If you want to learn a language for the sake of learning a language, then being a CTI is not the route you want. CTI can be a rewarding job for some and a miserable experience for others. Do your research on this forum and see for yourself if it sounds like something you would want to do...focus on that, NOT on becomming an officer, for right now.

I'm lucky enough to be one of the ones for whom it is rewarding, but I just came in to say that I sit next to two (prior military) civilians at work who do basically the same job I do and have similar backgrounds (i.e. training at DLI as first-term junior enlisted), just with more experience. I'm sure they make beaucoup bucks on account of having the fashion sense to wear T-shirts and jeans to work instead of utilities/BDUs, but the point is I must respectfully disagree with the contention that CTI skills don't translate to civilian/IC employment.

I myself plan on making the officer transition at some point in my second, possibly third, enlistment, but I've heard somewhat disheartening remarks about FAOs, that they get their language training, do one tour in their job field as a FAO, and then putz around as a DivO on a ship for a while, not using the language at all (which I suppose is better than not using it to begin with as an IWO). Any truth to this?

CTI_HJG et al; you misunderstand me... Its not that CTI's can't go on to find employment in the civilian sector or the IC, of course they can. My point is that the CTI skill set ITSELF is a very specialized skill which is really only in demand by the NSA, with limited overlap to a couple of other agencies. Unless you want to work for NSA as a contractor or a civilian, your CTI skill set likely to not be much of an asset in another job with a different agency. For me, and for virtually every other ex-CTI I know, it was my general knowledge and exposure to the IC that helped me get my first civilian job out of the Navy, along with the clearance of course. Honestly, my CTI-specific skills were irrelevant.

As I have said many, many times before, being a CTI is not a bad gig for most people. Just be aware that your cti-specific skills are not generally in wide demand, your language skills comming out of DLI are not going to make you 'fluent' in your target language, and that outside of the NSA realm, your cti-specific skills are really not what the IC writ large is looking for...that's typically all-source experience!

Well let me ask a question that i believe will influence my future decisions.
My intro would be: desire to work as a mathematician or cryptologist for the NSA in the future!
So the question is: Who is a better qualified cryptologist, a four-year CTI, a four-year IWO or entry level civilian crypto's with no prior military/gov. experience?

Plus if I would have a Cat IV language experience together with the two other Cat III languages i know and assuming CTI get an excellent training in crypto then i have better chances of being picked up by the NSA or CIA as an enlisted person than IWO with no Cat IV language and assuming IWO also get an excellent training at being Cryptologists.
Or i can always collect loan's never learn another language and just get a master's and hope i get picked up by the NSA, or CIA

If being a cryptologist is your end goal, have you looked into any of the other CT ratings?

quote:

Originally posted by 8832731:
So the question is: Who is a better qualified cryptologist, a four-year CTI, a four-year IWO or entry level civilian crypto's with no prior military/gov. experience?

depends on what NSA wants when you are trying to get a job with them.

this year, they may want the language background. next year they may want Network types.

Plenty of current and Former AD at NSA and her satellites. an Non prior experience civilian would be hard pressed to get in at all. you can have ten degrees..but if you don't have the experience, they won't necessarily want to spend the money on you( the Clearance is a big factor.. if you don't already have one, they may not want to spend the money on getting you one)

MrsJVB, actually, there are internship programs available throughout the IC for folks with no prior military experience. I have worked with several over the years and I sit next to one now. I can't speak to NSA specifically, but these programs do exist, though they are highly competitive.

CTIs really don't do much cryptography; some do, but really the jobset is about having headphones on and transcribing and translating communications.

That's why I said it would be difficult. we all now how hard it is to get into the GS system....same kind of thing, to my mind. If given a choice between somebody who has military experince( regardless of rating) AND a current Clearance over somebody with no real world experience or a Clearance? All other things being equal: the military dude(ette)has an edge.

Since CTI don't do much crypto, then i take it the IWO do it all, except the language.
I know for a fact of a kid who couldn't pass his preliminary exam to continue graduate studies from Master graduate student in Mathematics to PhD graduate student, but because (now this is my assumption) his master's degree was in Algebra he got picked up by the NSA.
I haven't talked to him since he left but i know this because he keeps in contact with one of the proffesors.
So point being is why would NSA hire, just a guy with a TS/SCI when they could hire someone who actually will continue the scientific research in the field and know what other people are talking about in conferences.
If one has a master's in Math, i believe has a much better chance of being picked then someone with a bachelor's degree in math but from an IVY LEAGUE school, who in general has a better chance of being picked up then an officer in the intel community no matter what.
The way i see it is that everyone mentioned above is missing the CAT IV language which would be a must nowadays in the intelligence fields.
All of the above are assumptions on my side, not the guy who actually works there now, though.