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Military.com Forums Navy Discussions Navy Intelligence, Information Warfare and Information Technology I was denied SCI...|
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Basic Training |
I just graduated bootcamp with hopes of becoming an IS. Well during a security interview during boot, I talked about one of the things I did was smoke a herb called salvia. It is a legal hallucenagen (by both state and federal laws at the time) and I have tried it twice, also sold some to a friend which is just as legal as selling tobacco to a friend of age. I disclosed all of this. Well, I was denied right after that interview of getting an SCI clearance because of it. I have no record what so ever other than that, not even been pulled over by a cop, never done illegal drugs, this was the only mark in my secuirity investigation. The crazy thing was, was that I originally disclosed this fact in my SF-86 when I turned it in to meps, but the Navy decides to take my elidgability away once I hit my second security interview during boot. THey now could only give me the job SEABEE, so I am now a seabee reservist. I need help. Can I have another interview? How long until I can try again for this clearance and/or switch rates to IS? I am devistated about this. Any help someone?
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Live and learn..or you won't live long. |
David,
I think you are being a little disingenuous with your post. A little research says a lot here. Let me clarify for others... The active ingredient in Salvia is a psychoactive chemical. According to smokinsalvia.info Also, So you are trying to say that your voluntarily taking AND distributing a psychoactive drug with those properties isn't a cause to deny you access to some INCREDIBLY sensitive information? And it wouldn't provide ANY potential avenues of exploitation by our adversaries to get that information? The determination regarding access to SCI is a never-ending process of risk evaluation. That is why it needs to be reviewed at a maximum of every 5 years once initially granted. To clear another misunderstanding up, you were NEVER granted eligibility for access to SCI, so they didn't take that eligibility away. What they did was to initially determine to continue with the process, but after your second interview, it was determined you were above the threshold of what was an acceptable risk. The use and distribution of a psychoactive drug is what placed you above the threshold of Acceptable Risk. |
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Basic Training |
you should deffinatly not have told them about that, but best of luck getting a new interview. Just outta curiosity what kind of things did they ask you in the interview? And if you have a speeding ticket on your record will it DQ you from getting in? |
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Member |
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Basic Training |
I see your points. I think I looked too much into the technicalities of it (ie: "but it was legal!") Its an integrity flaw not a legal flaw is probably what they saw. Im a fool for not realizing that right away. As for "why disclose it if legal?" Well, I was contemplating that. So I thought, because I am sitting here contemplaTING IT I better disclose it (couldnt hurt if there was not a problem with it). I dont mean to come across as "Im a Vitcim of the Navy", I see it in a better light right now. I think you are taking me for a wrong person which is not hard to do because I only wrote a paragraph on something about myself which happens to be on the topic of a mistake I made in life. Its hard not to assume the worst in that. I really do try display upmost integrity, this was a stupid mistake and does not reflect my character as a whole, you know what I mean? Like I said, I have never tried marijuana or any other drugs (funny thing is, is that the interviewer said that if it was marijuana, that they could get me a waiver, which I never tried because it is illegal!) Have no financial problems or traffic problems.
So as to try to help get me back on my feet, is it possible for me to try again? If so, How much time would you recomend until I try for it? This incident happened 8 months ago. Corvette said Never seeing me getting SCI? I hope thats not the case. Any help would be appriciated. This message has been edited. Last edited by: David_the_Aphid, |
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Member |
On the contrary, putting some time between the use of this substance and your application for a clearance down the road - showing that you've changed/matured - can definitely help you overcome this "flaw." I've seen it with both security clearances (in the civilian sector, anyway) and government jobs that require them. The "character flaw" that you would likely NOT have been able to overcome would have been lying/not disclosing this, so you made the right decision in telling them. Any penalty you pay now by telling the truth will be grossly overshadowed by the penalty you would pay later on, when an investigating/adjudicating agency discovered during a background investigation that you had lied to cover something up, even if that "something" were relatively minor. The bigger problem you may face might be the issue of actually selling/distributing this substance to someone else, but in any case, I suggest you give it some time, keep your nose clean, and try again later on. |
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Basic Training |
you act like you've never made a mistake in your lifetime! sheesh, man. salvia was just recently criminalized, so perhaps by doing it when it WAS legal (and without recognition that it was possibly BECOMING illegal) he didn't think he was doing anything wrong? i would say it's safe to say that most people who refer to illegal drugs would not refer to legal ones the same way, right? that's like using protein shakes or energy pills once or twice, them suddenly becoming illegal, and you going, "oh my god, i knew it was wrong the whole time... i only did it to have fun." chill out, man. |
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Basic Training |
PS hallucinogen
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Member |
I really enjoy when someone that has no idea what an SBI clearance involves gives advise like yours. To make it easy for your brain to comprehend exactly what this guy did wrong lets make it easy for you: Suppose he takes 5 Actifed tablets to get high. It’s an over the counter medication and its legal. The problem isn’t that he used Actifed, it’s that he used it to get high. What was is the purpose to get high? What prevents him of sudden deciding to get high on real illegal drug (Coke, Meth..). What prevents him of selling classified information to support his habit? Can’t he control himself? It all comes down to personal integrity. If you can’t say No, or control yourself, then the group doesn’t need you. He obviously knew it was wrong, because he disclosed it. God, if you’re that stupid to not see the difference between protein shakes and salvia then you’re probably another one that we don’t want in the group. Bottomline, the group doesn’t need people that have character flaws. Yes this guy did a stupid thing that will prevent him from getting in. What I hate seeing is people giving him false hope. Tell him the truth so he can move on. Yes, I have made mistakes in my life, however, they were never stupid mistakes. This message has been edited. Last edited by: 93Corvette, |
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Basic Training |
That reminds me of being pulled over with a radar detector in my car and saying "I'm sorry officer I didn't know I was speeding". The sort of thing that shoots you in the foot.
Dude, in MEPS our depper mantra was "just say NO!". Let me be truthful by saying that "HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITMENT", at one point or another can screw you. |
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Basic Training |
While I agree with you in this case, I feel that this is statement is a little unfair. If someone is a car collector that is always looking to buy another old car, does this mean that they should be denied for a clearance because they might sell secrets so they can buy that '57 Chevy they've been dreaming of for years? Being that he used the drug twice, it doesn't show habitual behaver.
Someone who does drugs twice doesn't indicate a lack of self control to me, it indicates a lack of better judgment. In my opinion, someone who does drugs twice could have more self control than someone who has tried to quit smoking five times without success. With that being said, I have never applied for security clearance of any type and do not have any military experience. I can see why they would deny the clearance and I agree with their decision, but I felt that these points may be worth noting. Thanks for your time. |
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Member |
Obviously he was denied his clearance.
In the 30 year I've been on the black world side, I've seen many reasons why people are denied a SCI access. Beleive me, the OP saying "I talked about one of the things I did was smoke a herb called salvia. It is a legal hallucenagen (by both state and federal laws at the time) and I have tried it twice, also sold some to a friend which is just as legal as selling tobacco to a friend of age." was the nail in the coffin... He screw up by being a "sea-lawyer" and saying it was a legal hallucenagen. It was a stupid thing to say.... Nothing good can happen by saying to someone "I was on a hallucenagen, but it was legal". |
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Basic Training |
Im going to continue doing what Im doing and try again later for this clearance, but...
93, I cant believe how dense you must be to completely judge me as having "Character flaw" and seeing that there is no hope and that the intel group doesnt want people like me, all because a small mistake I made in my past that I disclosed. I dont know if it makes you happy to try and re-live your black world days and act as some DONCAF security interviewer telling me all this, but you really need to be more understanding or maybe even supportive over another person who wants to go in the same direction you went. I dont know...just a though for you. |
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Member |
David, I read people's SSO files all day long. I see all the stuff that people have to overcome. However, never in the 700-800 files have I ever seen anyone get a SBI with hallucenagen use. What I hate is when people will tell you that you have a chance. Well, I guess you might. Just like there is a 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance that a dna paternity is wrong. You just might be that 1 person. Who knows? The Character flaw I was talking about was not so much the drug use, it was the reason of "but it was legal at the time". Just like any designer drug (ie ecstasy for example). Yes, it was legal at the time. But would the Navy want someone that used Ecstasy to have a SBI clearance? Nope. You knew it was wrong, because you disclosed it. People don't disclose items that they truly think are legal. Per your comment, "I dont know if it makes you happy to try and re-live your black world days and act as some DONCAF security interviewer telling me all this, but you really need to be more understanding or maybe even supportive over another person who wants to go in the same direction you went." I still do the clearance thing. Been doing it for 30 years. Once you have been in my shoes and have seen the lame stories I have heard when people are caught with drugs, or commit a crime, then you will see why I already have pre-judgimental opinion about them. Yes, your story about "It was legal at the time" has come up before. What's sad is when I have to pull their clearance, have them box their personnal belonging from their desk, then escorting them out of the building. Yes, I know their clearance is gone forever. Yes, I know that they just lost their job. I just stand there and always wonder why they would risk their wife and childrens welfare to use drugs. Hopefully another SSO can come on in and inform you why we don't think you will ever get a SBI clearance. Again, you can try, but the odds are stacked way against you. This message has been edited. Last edited by: 93Corvette, |
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Basic Training |
wow...great, I guess I can kiss these past 7 months of learning Arabic good bye... boy what have I done?
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Experienced Member |
David,
At least you got to learn a new language. However, I have to agree with Vet on this one. I have attempted to call in several waivers for drug usage and anything other than minimal marijuana use is a no go for a clearance, no waivers authorized. Yes you can argue that salvia is legal. However, even so you can be discharged for using it while on active duty. Plus selling (especially for profit) is an even bigger strike. I'm actually suprised you weren't discharged in boot. Probably only savingg grace was that it is a legal drug. |
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Member |
David,
I'm not really sure what you actually looking for. Alot of veterans have said you really don't have a chance. Even MIguy001 responded to you and said "If you were denied access to SCI information. Chances are you will never have access to that information the rest of your life." in this thread...http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/536007293...151001#9370004151001 As far as knowing Arabic. The Navy could care less how important you may think you are. They have a policy and they will not waive from it. Everyone in the Navy is replaceable.... |
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Lead Modorater Recconect America Forum Navy Forums Mod I dunno. Push it and see what happens.  |
David, here's the deal
I've been reading through your posts, and you need to stop taking out your frustration with the Navy on the Vets and active duty here. They have given you honest and correct advice, and you need to get off your high horse and reallize that where you are today is a direct result of your own actions. Your chain of command did not breech your contract, you did, by not getting the required qualifications. CAt |
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Basic Training |
thanks for the help everyone, I understand its a long shot but I think im just gonna keep pushing on and who knows, maybe some day get my life in this field.
 This message has been edited. Last edited by: David_the_Aphid, |
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Basic Training |
It's a little late, and most of my experience is from the Army Reserve, but David, I think that if you KNOW you really want to do this, stay the course and try again later.
People make mistakes. I've known a lot of people with clearances who have freely admitted to stories similar (or worse) than yours. We've had presidents who have used drugs and grown up enough to realize their mistakes and gone on to great futures. Policies change... think about the whole "don't ask, don't tell" (which was beginning when I joined the military). When I went for my first clearance, there was still a question of "Are you a communist?" Now the SECDEF says that questions about mental health should be out because it discourages people from seeking the help they need. I don't want to give you false hope - hell, 15 years down the line and people are still debating the issue of gays in the military - but I do believe if you really want it, keep trying. And don't waste the skills you've gained in Arabic! Try to keep up with it as you can. |
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