Sep 17, 4:16 PM EDT


Iraq expels American security firm

By ROBERT H. REID
Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD (AP) -- The Iraqi government Monday ordered Blackwater USA, the security firm that protects U.S. diplomats, to stop work and leave the country after the fatal shooting of eight Iraqi civilians following a car bomb attack against a State Department convoy.

The order by the Interior Ministry, if carried out, would deal a severe blow to U.S. government operations in Iraq by stripping diplomats, engineers, reconstruction officials and others of their security protection.

The presence of so many visible, aggressive Western security contractors has angered many Iraqis, who consider them a mercenary force that runs roughshod over people in their own country.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki late Monday and the two agreed to conduct a "fair and transparent investigation" and hold any wrongdoers accountable, said Yassin Majid, an adviser to the prime minister.

A State Department official confirmed the call but said he could not describe the substance.

But it was clear that the U.S. hoped the Iraqis would be satisfied with an investigation, a finding of responsibility and compensation to the victims' families - and not insist on expelling a company that the Americans cannot operate here without.

Interior Ministry spokesman Abdul-Karim Khalaf said eight civilians were killed and 13 were wounded when contractors believed to be working for Blackwater USA opened fire on civilians Sunday in the predominantly Sunni neighborhood of Mansour in western Baghdad.

"We have canceled the license of Blackwater and prevented them from working all over Iraqi territory. We will also refer those involved to Iraqi judicial authorities," Khalaf said.

He said witness reports pointed to Blackwater involvement but added that the shooting was still under investigation. One witness, Hussein Abdul-Abbas, said the explosion was followed by about 20 minutes of heavy gunfire and "everybody in the street started to flee immediately."

U.S. officials said the motorcade was traveling through Nisoor Square on the way back to the Green Zone when the car bomb exploded, followed by volleys of small-arms fire that disabled one of the vehicles but caused no American casualties.

American officials refused to discuss Iraqi casualties, nor would they confirm that Blackwater personnel were involved. They also refused to explain the legal authority under which Blackwater operates in Iraq or say whether the company was complying with the order.

Phone messages left early Monday at Blackwater's office in North Carolina and with a spokeswoman were not immediately returned.

The incident drew attention to one of the controversial American practices of the war - the use of heavily armed private security contractors who Iraqis complain operate beyond the control of U.S. military and Iraqi law.

The events in Mansour also illustrate the challenge of trying to protect U.S. officials in a city where car bombs can explode at any time, and where gunmen blend in with the civilian population.

"The Blackwater guys are not fools. If they were gunning down people, it was because they felt it was the beginning of an ambush," said Robert Young Pelton, an independent military analyst and author of the book "Licensed to Kill."

"They're famous for being very aggressive. They use their machine guns like car horns. But it's not the goal to kill people."

In one of the most horrific attacks of the war, four Blackwater employees were ambushed and killed in Fallujah in 2004 and their charred bodies hung from a bridge over the Euphrates River. According to insurance claims on file at the Department of Labor, 1,001 civilian contractors have been killed in Iraq since the war began in March 2003, through June 30, 2007.

But Iraqis have long complained about high-profile, heavily armed security vehicles careering through the streets, with guards pointing weapons at civilians and sometimes firing warning shots at anyone deemed too close.

Contractors have been accused of shooting to death an unknown number of Iraqi citizens, but none has faced charges or prosecution. In May 2007, a Blackwater employee shot and killed a civilian who was thought to be driving too close to a company security detail.

On Monday, Iraqi officials were quick to condemn the foreign guards.

Al-Maliki late Sunday condemned the shooting by a "foreign security company" and called it a "crime."

Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani described the shooting as "a crime about which we cannot be silent."

"Everyone should understand that whoever wants good relations with Iraq should respect Iraqis," al-Bolani told Al-Arabiya television. "We are implementing the law and abide by laws, and others should respect these laws and respect the sovereignty and independence of Iraqis in their country."

Defense Minister Abdul-Qadir al-Obaidi told Iraqi television that "those criminals" responsible for deaths "should be punished" and that the government would demand compensation for the victims' families.

Despite threats of prosecution, government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh told Alhurra television that contractors cannot be prosecuted by Iraqi courts because "some of them have immunity."

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the United States had not been notified of any Iraqi government decision to revoke Blackwater's license and declined to speculate as to how that might affect State Department activities if it happened.

"The bottom line is that the secretary wants to make sure that we do everything we possibly can to avoid the loss of innocent life," McCormack told reporters in Washington.

In April, the Defense Department said about 129,000 contractors of many nationalities were operating in Iraq - nearly as many as the entire U.S. military force before this year's troop buildup.

About 4,600 contractors are in combat roles, such as protecting supply convoys along Iraq's dangerous, bomb-laden highways.

Blackwater, a secretive North Carolina-based company run by a former Navy SEAL, is among the biggest and best known security firms, with an estimated 1,000 employees in Iraq and at least $800 million in government contracts.

---

AP correspondents Deborah Hastings in New York and Matthew Lee in Washington contributed to this report.

Judge,

The Blackwater hater/ anti-contractor crowd has been foaming at the mouth over this.

I don't really have an opinion on Blackwater.

I do believe if all the employees of Blackwater were to pack up and leave right away, there would be a lot of Iraqi politicians getting shot down in the street.

Truth is, protecting an oil pump is more important than a shiek.

So, no matter what details Blackwater was on, someone will have to cover the most valuble assets. There will be a lot of shifting.

quote:

Originally posted by Infantry32:
Judge,
The Blackwater hater/ anti-contractor crowd has been foaming at the mouth over this.

Well, if a non-governmental organization killed eight civilians anywhere in the world (Bosnia, etc...) it would be a pretty big stink regardless don't you think?

Sure, but rather than jump on the bash BW/ Contractor bandwagon I will wait to see what really happened. Since everyone seems to forget that there was a complex attack involved. We don't even know for sure that "real" civilians were killed. Hopefully, some peoples thirst for blood won't distort the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Shardik:

quote:

Originally posted by Infantry32:
Judge,
The Blackwater hater/ anti-contractor crowd has been foaming at the mouth over this.

Well, if a non-governmental organization killed eight civilians anywhere in the world (Bosnia, etc...) it would be a pretty big stink regardless don't you think?

in Iraq, when a civilian is reported killed.. it just means his buddy ran to the body and took his Ak-47 away

I think this is just alot of hot air. I am curious what the Iraq leaders will do to protect themseleves and their countries assets. While spraying indiscriminately is wrong and if someone was just being an idiot then fire them and ban them from this type of work in the future. Maybe if the Iraq people would step up they would not need such a high number of contractors and then the companies could be more selective. Until then there will be more work than there are qualified people. Simple supply and demand

quote:

Originally posted by Infantry32:
Judge,

The Blackwater hater/ anti-contractor crowd has been foaming at the mouth over this.

I am curious about a couple of things: Why do some folks, entities, etc hate Blackwater? Is BW responsible for some of hatred directed at them?

quote:

Originally posted by Infantry32:
Sure, but rather than jump on the bash BW/ Contractor bandwagon I will wait to see what really happened. Since everyone seems to forget that there was a complex attack involved. We don't even know for sure that "real" civilians were killed. Hopefully, some peoples thirst for blood won't distort the facts.

Remember the big stink in '03, when 325 AIR "slaughtered " a bunch of "innocent civilians" in Fallujah?

A crowd marched on a schoolhouse that was being used as a CP. Allegedly, they were protesting the use of the school as a CP. This would be the same school that had been packed floor to ceiling with weapons and ammo.

Turns out there were folks in the crowd shooting AKs at the Troopers. They in turn, were shot by the DMs stationed on the rooftops.
Shooting from above, the only people hit were the ones shooting at our Troops. The AKs disappeared along with the crowd.

The hoopla died real quick when a video, shot from a rooftop, showed what really happened.

Oh yeah. What's funny is there are those here at this site who want to bash BW and contractors and apparently will not wait and see what the facts are before they pass judgement. And they are in many cases former military themselves! Unbelievable.

quote:

Originally posted by gumbydammit:

quote:

Originally posted by Infantry32:
Sure, but rather than jump on the bash BW/ Contractor bandwagon I will wait to see what really happened. Since everyone seems to forget that there was a complex attack involved. We don't even know for sure that "real" civilians were killed. Hopefully, some peoples thirst for blood won't distort the facts.

Remember the big stink in '03, when 325 AIR "slaughtered " a bunch of "innocent civilians" in Fallujah?

A crowd marched on a schoolhouse that was being used as a CP. Allegedly, they were protesting the use of the school as a CP. This would be the same school that had been packed floor to ceiling with weapons and ammo.

Turns out there were folks in the crowd shooting AKs at the Troopers. They in turn, were shot by the DMs stationed on the rooftops.
Shooting from above, the only people hit were the ones shooting at our Troops. The AKs disappeared along with the crowd.

The hoopla died real quick when a video, shot from a rooftop, showed what really happened.

Article today has statements that the iraqi survivors say there was no gun fire agains the blackwater employees..they say the BW guys showed up and started shooting people.

that ridiculously thought of lie alone proves the BW guys did nothing wrong

Read an article yesterday that said all civilian movement was cancelled and every civilian was basically on lock down. This included all construction projects as well. Guess those Iraq's need contractors more than they think.

yeah but with muslimaniacs a dead insurgent is a civilian.

Out of curiosity, how does your automatic assumption of Muslim guilt compare to the Muslims' automatic assumption of Blackwater's guilt?

Just heard this morning on CNN that some witnesses are say that the Iraq Police started shooting at the convoy after a distant explosion and the Blackwater guards laid down a base of fire and left the area.

quote:

Air America or Blackwater it all looks like the CIA to me?

Well yeah, that part's becoming more and more obvious. The real question is, no matter what side of the argument you are on - if PMCs are not subject to US law, UCMJ or Iraqi law then what laws are are they subject to?

If they were contracted by DOD they would be subject to the UCMJ, but their contract is with the State Department, not DOD. The State Dept needs to get their act together, first Bremer now this. It appears the State Dept can't even do wrong right.

Do these private firms pay and have near the same benefits as the government military?

Nope - they pay 6 figures. $350 to $1,500 per day.

The pay is more like 350-750 per day. Almost no one gets 1500 per day anymore. On my last contract the EOD techs (civilians) made more than the shooters did. There aren't really any benefits per se. Medical coverage is DBA and the private stuff for families is pretty spendy. My last was with Cigna Int'l and it was almost 1000 per month. There is no retirement.