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Military.com Forums Army Discussions USASOC - US Army Special Operations Command Well what do you you think about this|
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Quiet Professional |
I get the counter-insurgency idea and that we need to be always changing tactics and they way we approach the GWOT. To me this article seems like we are just about doing whatever we need to do appease people who the next day will plant a bomb in the road to kill the very same warriors who freed their country and prevent many of them from being terrorized by a different ruler. This guy used bad taste and judgement but to go this far to make things right makes the US military look weak. Give the guy a low ranking on his NCOER and call it a day.
What do you think?Sniper Training |
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Member |
I agree
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Basic Training |
Its a said day when the United States lets local civilians of another country impact on how we discipline our own soldier. He probably whould get less of a punishment for shooting at a christian bible
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Quiet Professional |
If some diplomatic "appeasing" protects the lives of soldiers it's well worth it. Apparantly President Bush agrees. http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/20/bush.quran/index.html
He would probably get no punishment for shooting at a Christian Bible. 1) The point is not which religion's book was used as a target, the point is we have to practice cultural awareness to avoid needlessly antagonizing the population we hope to recruit to our side. 2) What punishment would you advocate for a soldier who used a Christian Bible as a target and why? This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shardik, |
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"Gory, Gory, what a hellva way to DIE!" |
I think thats the Ranger in you speaking, and not the Green Beret, lol  . |
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Member |
The soldier who shot the Quran was wrong, not so much because he defaced a religous book, but he added fuel to the insurgents cause.
When the pictures came out of Abu-Ghirab, the prisoners really hadn't suffered more than embarassment and harrassment. The importance of the crime was about how it affected the overall preception of our forces by the local population, and ultimately how it impeded the overall mission in Iraq. I don't really care that Joe vented his frustrations by shooting some book, any book. I care that his actions led to increased hatred between the Iraqi's as whole and all the U.S. troops on the ground. Did it make a BIG difference? No. But if it causes one additional attack, one more insurgent to be recruited, one more dead or wounded American soldier, than it certainly wasn't worth the relief or happiness that soldier felt when he commited the act. Anytime we serve in uniform, we represent more than ourselves, we represent our unit, our Army, our Country, and most importantly the best of what they stand for. That should never be forgotten. SGT U.S.ARMY, Infantry Sniper, Iraq Combat Veteran |
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Quiet Professional |
See this is my problem, we apologized and I am sure that the offender was discipined, his NCOIC and his Commander were probably disciplined as well. In my opinion we should have told those offended that we aplogize and the Soldier and his command have been reprimanded
Instead we have bent over backwards and IMO appeared weak. I also think that the enemy watched and learned something as well. Something they have learned well since we have been fighting them that if they make a big enough stink and act outraged enough that the US Military will do whatever they ask. However we still have done nothing about the weapons from Iran, the fighters from Syria and Iran, etc. I guess my point is that while I agree with the counter-nisurgency approach we still must let he enemy and those that sympathize with them that we mean business. Anyone that has spent anytime in the ME knows that they often interprut kindness as weakness and in this case I am afraid this is what will happen. |
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Member |
Yup, I'm with you.
They understand one thing, and that is strength. They are probably laughing at us. After all, they kidnap and behead soldiers and civilians, and we shoot at a book....
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Member |
Here's what I think the person who turn him in ought to get his azz kick....
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Judge Stump |
Many a time I had a young stud or studette stood in front of me with a charge that I considered a youthful indiscretion.
I always asked "what were you thinking". Most got caught because they didn't think and left evidence behind. If you use momma's car for a Saturday night date, you don't leave a used condom or wrapper and the girls panties in the back seat. For the Soldier to do this at a range used by Iraqi Police is absurd. Where was the safety NCO? If cartoons of Prophet Mo set them off to riot, it is good the brass nipped it in the bud. |
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Judge Stump |
"Iraqi police found the bullet-riddled Quran with graffiti inside the cover on a firing range near a police station in Radwaniyah, a former insurgent stronghold west of Baghdad, U.S. military spokesman Col. Bill Buckner said." |
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ARMY FORUMS MODERATOR |
OK, I agree with this perspective because it is balanced. Anyway, here is what I learned in the Cold War in 1985 and I know it is a vastly different context and not a warzone. I was never in a warzone so it's the only experience I have in a hostile country so you have to cut me some slack here. Sent into East Berlin in Army uniform as part of a familiarization tour we had to pretty much abide by the rules of East Germany (host country). We were briefed before going in there that if we trangressed we would be left behind in East German custody and the rest of our Company would return to West Berlin without us. A One Star General would have to retrieve us from the East German authorities, a formal reprimand would be placed into our record (among other things) because it was considered a international incident, a formal apology would be issued to East Germany on behalf of the United States. This was all in the military briefing before we crossed through Checkpoint Charlie. We knew this and we were careful in our conduct despite some minor provocations by the East Germans. All of the above is because we had a status of forces agreement with East Germany and it could defend it's own borders and all it's states with it's own Army and it was part of the Warsaw Pact, so that is difference #1. Difference #2 was it was obviously a member of an alliance that was opposed to the United States with equal firepower and we wanted to avoid provoking a conflict. Difference #3 it was not a active warzone. So given the above experience. I have a hard time understanding soldiers / veterans that say it was OK and the SSG should not be punished at all. I mean WTF? Where is the precedent for that? I understand that there is no status of forces agreement with Iraq, it can't defend it's own borders yet and we are still an occupying power there technically. However, I agree with FloridaScoutSniper here as well, you wear the uniform with U.S. Army on it and like it or not you represent ALL of the United States in the host country your serving in. You also represent U.S. Foriegn Policy. You don't pick and choose what you want to represent. You don't perform political acts of symbolism on your own because you want to make a point. Had this been a firefight or direct combat, OK the judgment goes to the soldier on the ground. This was not the case, it was basically target practice in a warzone. It was a incident that did not need to happen but because of a individuals lapse of judgment it did. Iraqi politicians publicly beotching, I say screw them, we never kow-tow to foriegn politicians with international incidents involving members of the U.S. Army. We always find a compromise. General kissing Quran.....overkill and too much, IMO. However, the Army should punish this guy for what he did. So thats my perspective. Hopefully, I won't get slammed too badly for it. |
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Member |
Well said Ryan, Regardless of one's personal feelings towards Islam or Muslims in general, our conduct as Americans is under the microscope because we are operating in someone else's country...and the vast majority of that population is Muslim, including those who's hearts and minds we are tasked to engage, pacify and develop a rapport with. This kind of juvenile behavior IS NOT representative of American Soldiers and does not help our mission at all...maturity and discipline are hallmarks for snipers...this is not an example of either. |
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Quiet Professional |
OK I read the story again and I may have interupted "Military Commander" to mean U.S. General, maybe it was a Cpt which I hve no problem with, now if it were a 2 star Gen. then it seems like a bit of over kill. I get that the sniper was stupid and showed horrible judgement, I just wish that the Iraqi leaders were as concerned about the corruption of their govt. and the level of their troops performance.
Maybe I am just a little tired of stories like this being the news of the hour when you have to search google to read about some young stud/studette who makes an incredibly brave move to rescue a fallen friend. And yes numbers I often have to temper my RGR Bn mindset with my missions in SF. By he way when are you going to pick a name? |
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ARMY FORUMS MODERATOR |
I have no idea/clue on the frustration of being in a war zone or dealing with a population that can be for or against you depending on randomness of selection or the mood of the moment. So I can see where there would be frustration.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: ErichG2, |
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"Gory, Gory, what a hellva way to DIE!" |
Never! That would be declaring my allegance to military.com   |
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Quiet Professional |
C'mon you could choose something like Gen Gavin, Best Paratrooper Ever, 82nd and Wham Rock!
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"Gory, Gory, what a hellva way to DIE!" |
How about "shoots@holybooks" rofl |
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Quiet Professional |
I like that alot!
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Basic Training |
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Military.com Forums Army Discussions USASOC - US Army Special Operations Command Well what do you you think about this
