Sapper's are engineers first, but when there are no engineer tasks, we act as infantry. In practical terms, we get all the training and equipment of an infantry unit, only we are trained in explosives, construction, heavy equip as well.
Engineer tasks largely focus around mobility(build the bridge or road) or countermobility(destroy bridge or road). We also can get training on breaching, which is basically using explosives to open doors, windows, or walls in support of a raid.
Ooh ok, yeah since South Dakota doesn't have infantry, my recruiter said that we have sappers, so I asked him what they were and he joked that they were "Infantryman on steroids", later he said that they were close to infantryman, so I was curious.
Depending on the answer my "federal and state tuition" question on the forums, I might move to Nebraska and become an infantryman, or stay here and become a sapper, I don't know yet.
You know whats funny? Everyone compares themselves to the Infantry in some way or another. That aught to tell you something. Being a Sapper is a fun job. If you are into combat arms stuff and blowing things up then there is no better job. Never mistake anyone other than an Infantryman for an Infantryman though. Sappers are like Sappers, Grunts are like Grunts. There is a difference.
Yeah, I'm more of an infantryman kind of person, which is what I really want to do, I just need to make sure all my research is correct, and I don't get too dependant and get screwed.
Yessir. As long as you make sure you get what you want, and don't settle for something you don't want just because its available, you'll have a good career.
Originally posted by runfuret: You know whats funny? Everyone compares themselves to the Infantry in some way or another. That aught to tell you something. Being a Sapper is a fun job. If you are into combat arms stuff and blowing things up then there is no better job. Never mistake anyone other than an Infantryman for an Infantryman though. Sappers are like Sappers, Grunts are like Grunts. There is a difference.
Okay, here's a question for you. What do you call an Administrative NCO branched Infantry but does not actually do anything Infantry.
Thats easy. I know of a recruiter who was prior service in the Navy. He joined the National Guard and went to the 2 week MOSQ school for Infantry and then became a recruiter. Although his MOS is 11B he has never been in an Infantry unit, and has never done anything in an Infantry roll other than his MOSQ course. Thats what we call a GINO. Grunt In Name Only. In other words no, they are admin. Being a Grunt is more than holding an MOS. That being said if a Grunt gets moved out of his Infantry spot through no fault of his own he may retain that discipline and toughness that Infantry are known for. If you are not working as an Infantryman you are not an Infantryman. Simple.
Originally posted by runfuret: Thats easy. I know of a recruiter who was prior service in the Navy. He joined the National Guard and went to the 2 week MOSQ school for Infantry and then became a recruiter. Although his MOS is 11B he has never been in an Infantry unit, and has never done anything in an Infantry roll other than his MOSQ course. Thats what we call a GINO. Grunt In Name Only. In other words no, they are admin. Being a Grunt is more than holding an MOS. That being said if a Grunt gets moved out of his Infantry spot through no fault of his own he may retain that discipline and toughness that Infantry are known for. If you are not working as an Infantryman you are not an Infantryman. Simple.
Okay, so according to you the 11 Boo MOS is not enough to make you Infantry.
So, suppose you are out on patrol seeking to destroy the enemy and you are doing so on foot; but you are a 21 Boo, doesn't that indeed make you an Infantryman and in fact aren't you a grunt?
BTW: Infantry is defined by Websters as:
1 a: soldiers trained, armed, and equipped to fight on foot b: a branch of an army composed of these soldiers.
So, if the branch doesn't do it, it must be the training, arms and equipment that makes one Infantry right?
I see what you are trying to do but I took a college level logic course too. I recognize Socratic questioning when I see it. Being an Infantryman is more than the sum of it's parts. A Grunt is not only someone who does the job of an Infantryman, but he is someone who knows and appretiates the myths and lore of the Infantry. He doesn't just qualify as an 11B and go off to recruit, he lives the life that Infantrymen know and have written about. He doesn't just wear the cord and crossed rifles, he has sweated and fought for them. But most of all he is someone who thinks that being an Infantryman is the most important thing in the world. I know a lot of hardcore dudes in lots of different MOSs. I know a lot of hardcore Engineers whom I respect and admire. I've seen them hunt down the enemy with increadible skill. However when they do those things they are Engineers who engage the enemy. This should bring back some memories of that Predicate Logic class... In order to be an Infantryman you must be an INFANTRYMAN. Sounds simple, but think about it for a second...
Originally posted by runfuret: I see what you are trying to do but I took a college level logic course too. I recognize Socratic questioning when I see it. Being an Infantryman is more than the sum of it's parts. A Grunt is not only someone who does the job of an Infantryman, but he is someone who knows and appretiates the myths and lore of the Infantry. He doesn't just qualify as an 11B and go off to recruit, he lives the life that Infantrymen know and have written about. He doesn't just wear the cord and crossed rifles, he has sweated and fought for them. But most of all he is someone who thinks that being an Infantryman is the most important thing in the world. I know a lot of hardcore dudes in lots of different MOSs. I know a lot of hardcore Engineers whom I respect and admire. I've seen them hunt down the enemy with increadible skill. However when they do those things they are Engineers who engage the enemy. This should bring back some memories of that Predicate Logic class... In order to be an Infantryman you must be an INFANTRYMAN. Sounds simple, but think about it for a second...
Got it, so an Infantryman is what you say it is, and consequently what others say it is because it is a subjective standard based on emotion, myths and lore.
Therefore, based upon your own reasoning MANY Soldiers may be Infantry and it does not depend solely upon their MOS.
So, the ex-Infantryman who becomes and Engineer and continues the traditions of the Infantry in their new job are indeed Infantry.
I don't think you've got it yet. In order to be an Infantryman you must be an Infantryman. If you loved it so much go back and be an Infantryman again. If not just enjoy being a Sapper and quite trying to claim other things.
sgt here...870th combat engineer company sappers....look at the tier of special forces tabs...only 3 exist....speial forces, ranger, and sapper....yes, open to all 21bangers e5 promotable and up....talk to a ranger or spec force unit and ask them....we've had tabbed rangers not make the sapper course....it's more a recon based course designed towards engineering tasks, but it is 4 weeks of hell...and I know 2 tabbed rangers that did not pass the course......hmmmm...not infantry?
I was reading that Sapper school is open to women though, whereas the Ranger and Special Forces schools are not. What are the qualifications for Sapper school? Are officers who branch Engineering guaranteed Sapper school like Infantry officers are Ranger?
Originally posted by gallagheria: I was reading that Sapper school is open to women though, whereas the Ranger and Special Forces schools are not. What are the qualifications for Sapper school? Are officers who branch Engineering guaranteed Sapper school like Infantry officers are Ranger?
I am heading to OCS and then most likely branch into engineers, (there is a shortage of officers with my degree in my state, which deals directly in engineering). I have spoken with a Major at the nearest engineering brigade and he told me a little about sappers, but the best info I have gotten is from the sapper course site. http://www.wood.army.mil/sapper/ I did not see anything disallowing female soldiers. The course is for soldiers holding the rank of E-4 promotable and officers below the rank of Captain.
