I am going to ALS soon. I'm crossing over from the Army, and I already did the Army version of this course, PLDC, (and the 1st phase of one above that too, BNCOC), but it was YEARS ago.

I had to give up a stripe (E-6) to get my AF slot (Guard), and now must complete ALS by December, or I lose ANOTHER one and become an E-4, so I got a resident slot at an active duty ALS.

Question is, I am a Staff, with some gray hair, and am going to be the dinosaur of the class. Everyone I know says I will be the class leader due to my date of rank.

This makes me a little uneasy, as I'll have a bunch of young kids who are competent Airmen looking up to me in a way. I just finished 1/2 of my flying training (6 out of 8 courses completed in the Rescue Herk FE pipe), so I've been in the blue suit for a little bit now, but I don't REALLY speak Air Force too well, and I haven't marched a platoon/flight or done ANY D&C in God knows how long. i.e. I know there is a Levitow Award in schools, but I have zero clue who Levitow was...(okay, that's a lie...I looked it up...but you get the point...I wasn't "raised" with this stuff like y'all were)

you know?

So, for those of you that have been in the class already, what would you suggest I do, or what should I read, to bone up on basic AF stuff to get me more on the same page as these hot-to-trot Airmen who are bucking for their NCO stripe. I could dive into all kinds of pubs and AFI's, but I don't know where to start looking to get at what would be MOST relevant to what I am going to be doing.

I sure don't want to go in there being the crusty, seasoned NCO...and then end up looking like a wad of chewed up bubble gum when I am lax on the basic, common AF knowledge, stuff.

(Give me a limitations sheet on the C-130, however, and I'll shine like a diamond)

Any advice is welcome...pubs links even more welcome. I have 3 weeks to do some prep in my off time before the school.

without the spaces (for the spambots), email is: m c 1 3 0 f e @ g m a i l . c o m , or just post here.

Thanks much.

There is so much for you to learn before ALS.
I'd recommend you get familiar with AFI 36-2903 (dress and Appearance).
I had a guy come to my squadron from the Navy. Nobody thought anything about it, (we wear flight suits) until he had to wear his Service Dress (for ALS, I think) and didn't have a CLUE how to put the uniform together.

Another piece of advice. You know how we always tell new Lts to find a CMSgt and stick to him like glue? I'd recommend you find a fellow SRA in your class and do the same thing. Nothing against the Reserves or Guard, but pick an AD Sra. They've been working this stuff daily (plaing the AF game)
Find a non-flight suit wearer as well. Someone who's used to wearing utilities or blues daily. (Inspections are a BIG part of school) An Admin troop would help - they're usually pretty good with finding AFIs (if you need it) A cop could help you with the leadership/self image part (most of them are pretty self-confident) Someone on base Honor Guard can help with te drill & ceremony stuff.
I'm NOT saying "use" these folks. Pull them aside, explain your situation, and ask for help.

Since you are a SSgt already, your classmates will be SrA. Even if there is another SSgt, chances are that your TIS and Age will still make you the oldest/ranking member.


Don't think you'll have nothing to contribute in return. As a crusty old Army dude you'll have experience that the whole class can draw on.

OH! If you haven't already, start reading the Professional Development Guide. It's what we use for our promotion testing. There is LOTS of AF "stuff" there that will help you out. It's boring as "heck" but it'll help.

quote:

Originally posted by AFshirt1:
? I'd recommend you find a fellow SRA in your class and do the same thing. Nothing against the Reserves or Guard, but pick an AD Sra. They've been working this stuff daily (plaing the AF game)

Just an FYI, I recently attended an ALS graduation at an active duty base. One my troops attended. I found it interesting that the Levitow winner was a guardsman and out of the 4 honor grads, two were guardsman, one a shallow water sailor and one AD. I was told that my troop, who was an honor grad, missed out on the levitow award because of the ding she got the first day.

See if your shirt as a PFE study guide. The guard does not use it, but I always made sure we had a copy on hand for our folks to read before they went off to ALS. It has AF history, customs and courtesies, dress and appearance etc... It would be great for a guy in your situation

search for AFPAM 36-2241 PDG and 36-2618 enlisted force structure

That's exactly the type of feedback and references I was looking for.

Thanks a million...wish me luck.

Dude relax. Your Army training has more than prepared you for ALS. Most AF E-4's would cry if they had to attend PLDC or BNOC. Just go with the flow and don't let anything get you spun up. Don't be a wood shark either, that crap makes me want to puke. Levitow winners in ALS/NCOA don't mean dick, most look good on paper but couldn't lead a turd out of the butt using a GPS and a road map.

I don't need GPS or a topo map to lead MY cornback sewer trouts to their happy spawning ground.

All I need is a good cup of 4x coffee (Navy/Coastie style) or a cigarette, and rest assured...the Browns are GOING to the Super Bowl.

(I'd give you the "spread" on that one, but it just wouldn't be right).

I don't want to be Mr. Perfect nerd-bird... those "atta boy" award deals are best left to the young folks on Active Duty who need those bullets for their careers...means diddly-squat to me.

I just take some pride in NOT looking like the "stereotypical" Guard dude, seeing as how I've been an NCO for a long time. Better to review the "foundational" material that everyone else is privy to by default, but that is fairly new to me.

When I was at my SERE graduation at Fairchild, and they said "we have t-shirts for sale...medium, large, and Extra-Guard"...that made me remember what image I DON'T need to help portray...especially as an aircrew guy (we have a bad enough reputation as it is...across service lines).

Now excuse me while I eat this doughnut.......

Me...

Before the operation:

Dude you crack me up. You'll do fine. Good luck, Cabo.

I don't recognize the face but...

That's not what you think...I had this enormous zit on my chest when that picture was taken...but the doc popped it right before the operation.

Yup...it sucks about as much as I figured it would.

I must say that I'm glad I'm going in residence, though. A lot of things are different in the AF than in the Army...similar, but not identical. I couldn't have understood that from reading a set of CDC's...I needed to stand in front of a formation to see it.

I really don't think my being the class leader is fair, though. I've already done all the leadership tasks involved in such an additional duty in the schoolhouse, but these SrA's need the experience more than I. Feel like I am cheating them out of the added hassles.

I have had 5 personal emails so far from other people in my same situation, so that tells me that many people out there are reading this thread, and that this is not an uncommon thing.

Let me say this...if you are a reservist or guardsman, and you have the option to do the class in-residence...especially if you're from another service originally...my advice is to bite the bullet and just go to the in-residence class. I hear from other people that it is also advisable to do the NCO Academy in-residence as well, as the correspondence version is a nightmare, and was written very poorly (that's just hearsay, though...I don't know).

Now, if you hate organized PT (I haven't done a lick of organized PT since I came in the AF system in late 2006, and I've been on active duty at AETC bases for over a year now), you will not like the in-residence course. My legs are still on fire from Friday. The other guardsman here is 35 years old, and we both looked at each other after the run and shook our heads...thinking "I'm gettin' too old for this $h!t".

But it's good to purge all the nasty juice from the bloodstream every now and then, eh?

Anyone else reading wants to PM me or email me with questions, please feel free to do so. I will get back to you as soon as I can, and will tell you what I know (if anything). Email to:

m c 1 3 0 f e @ g m a i l . c o m (without the spaces...for the spambots)

I take it back...this class is no fun. Wo7uld rather be sitting on the beach in Cabo doing CDC's instead...

:-)

I was Navy and stationed up in Keflavik, Iceland at the time when I attended and it was a culture shock for me. The Air Force handles business completely differently than the way we do things in the Navy and it was an eye opener. The one advantage that you will have is that you are technically getting a clean slate since you are new to the Air Force so learning everything you learn will be fresh in your skull. A lot of BS at the beginning but it gets easier. Good luck getting the Levitow!

That...sucked. (not really...just glad it's over)

Good information, but not in the format I think is conducive to a 1st line NCO. Especially since I was in class with Security Forces who deploy all the time. There needs to be a portion of that course in the field, or at least more of it focused on the expeditionary Airman. I critiqued it pretty good.

Earned the Academic Achievement award for highest average score in a class of 20, but what would you expect from a guy who has worn hard stripes for many years. Everyone kept congratulating me, and I felt like asking them why I didn't get disqualified from the awards completely. Didn't seem right. Kind of like sending Joe Montana to play a game with the Pop Warner kids...he's already been there and done that...you know?

You do get more out of it than the CDC's though...so if you are Guard or Reserve, and you are considering going in-residence, you should know what you are getting into. If you want to get the most out of the class, and actually take something away from the experience other than a piece of paper that says "promotable to Staff", then go in-residence.

Don't show up as a PT slacker, and don't show up as a lazy Airman. Show up with a little pride in yourself, and some work ethic, and you'll do fine in the course.

As far as the PT, it hurt, but I was older than all the staff, save for the Commandant, and he only had me beat by 5+ years, and I finished in the top tier of the class for PT...so if my old a$$ can do it, so can you.

If you are already wearing stripes, and have been an NCO in another service, as I had, (and if the schoolhouse knows anything about your background), be prepared to assume more responsibility than your average SrA class leader, too.

Good times...

...but I be DoneZo!

Back to the flight suit, baby!

Congrats on being done! I can't wait to go, I got a year or so though.

The advice given to me above was helpful, so read it. I'll recap and throw in my $0.02 for anyone else that is headed to ALS, and then I'll leave the thread alone unless someone has any specific questions...in which case you are welcome to post, or to send me a PM from the profile page.

Roll by the PME building you will be attending, if it is at your installation, and politely ask them for a suggested reading list ahead of time. There are a few things that it would do you well to have reviewed prior to your attending.

Have your blues in ALL combos, with ALL authorized accouterments, ready to go (you'd think that would go without saying, but you would be surprised how many people had more excuses than proper uniforms). If you are going to wear mess dress, have it looking proper and fitting right, before you arrive. If semi-formal, it is just a solid white shirt in place of the blue shirt, and that's hard to screw up (but people have).

I would download a copy, and/or pick up a paper copy of AFH 33-337, The Tongue and Quill. Good thing to have handy anyway.

Be familiar with 36-2618 (mentioned above as well), The Enlisted Force Structure. Don't have to memorize it, but be familiar with it, and fully understand what it is trying to say. It will play a big part in the lessons and scenario based stuff you have to participate in.

The PDG isn't covered, but it has a lot of info that will be included in discussions, so it helped me out.

Be solid on your PT when you get there, or you will feel like you did back at Lackland...sore legs and a pounding headache. We had a few SrA that looked like they hadn't PT'ed in about 2 years or more...and it showed. If you are a 75.000001 type troop, and your PT is being scored by your buddy in the Flight, you might want to think about working on that a bit. Your buddy won't be scoring you on day 2 when you take the PT test.

PT Shoes...i showed up with old shoes I bought in Qatar years ago. They were almost worn through. My shins and knees paid the price. If you've been putting off buying some good PT shoes, now is your reason. Buy good ones...don't hurt like I did. I was a very fast runner, but I took more Ibuprofin than anyone else combined...and I was housed on the 3rd floor (ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, etc.)

Memorize the Airman's Creed before you get there...you have to recite it perfectly at the position of attention before an instructor in order to graduate, so might as well learn it now so that's one less thing to work on later.

That's about it. Wasn't a hard course to pass, but it wasn't a giveaway, either. Teamwork built quickly for us, and that ensured that 100% of the class made it through. We had a couple of guys who were borderline failures up to the very last academic day, but they had 19 buddies in class that just would not let them fall down without picking them back up, so they graduated. I gave up many evenings with a TV set and a 6 pack of beer to go over study material with these fellas, and it paid off. Please do the same for your classmates...invest in them, and it will make your class, and your individual self, better for having done so.

That goes for much more than ALS...I have had Soldiers assigned to me already in the past, so this comes from experience...the investment in your people/classmates/troops goes for being in a leadership position across the board...and you don't have to be the appointed "leader" in order to find yourself in a leadership position. You reap what you sow, even when it doesn't seem like it at the time.

End of my $0.02.

quote:

Originally posted by lstgnfghtr:
I am going to ALS soon. I'm crossing over from the Army, and I already did the Army version of this course, PLDC, (and the 1st phase of one above that too, BNCOC), but it was YEARS ago.

I had to give up a stripe (E-6) to get my AF slot (Guard), and now must complete ALS by December, or I lose ANOTHER one and become an E-4, so I got a resident slot at an active duty ALS.

Question is, I am a Staff, with some gray hair, and am going to be the dinosaur of the class. Everyone I know says I will be the class leader due to my date of rank.

This makes me a little uneasy, as I'll have a bunch of young kids who are competent Airmen looking up to me in a way. I just finished 1/2 of my flying training (6 out of 8 courses completed in the Rescue Herk FE pipe), so I've been in the blue suit for a little bit now, but I don't REALLY speak Air Force too well, and I haven't marched a platoon/flight or done ANY D&C in God knows how long. i.e. I know there is a Levitow Award in schools, but I have zero clue who Levitow was...(okay, that's a lie...I looked it up...but you get the point...I wasn't "raised" with this stuff like y'all were)

you know?

So, for those of you that have been in the class already, what would you suggest I do, or what should I read, to bone up on basic AF stuff to get me more on the same page as these hot-to-trot Airmen who are bucking for their NCO stripe. I could dive into all kinds of pubs and AFI's, but I don't know where to start looking to get at what would be MOST relevant to what I am going to be doing.

I sure don't want to go in there being the crusty, seasoned NCO...and then end up looking like a wad of chewed up bubble gum when I am lax on the basic, common AF knowledge, stuff.

(Give me a limitations sheet on the C-130, however, and I'll shine like a diamond)

Any advice is welcome...pubs links even more welcome. I have 3 weeks to do some prep in my off time before the school.

without the spaces (for the spambots), email is: m c 1 3 0 f e @ g m a i l . c o m , or just post here.

Thanks much.

I went to ALS at the crisp age of 44. It took me 4 years to advance to chief and I never looked back. Its alot of work, alot of lonly nights but the paycheck gets me what I need. I am known as the future b/c of my know-how and cander. Hell I still use my DOS computer to type up my reports to the SECDEF. I still wear my jungle fatigues from Nam, no one dares say a word to me, or they suffer the consequences. But stay sharp, stay ready.

Are you going to troll across every board here?

Some forums are appropriate for B.S. and joking...some are for specific questions, and are serious.

Learn the difference, and remember...posting while drunk (PWD) doesn't get you far.

Puff, Puff, PASS...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: lstgnfghtr,