Cant wait to train!.....Report to WTC FT. Sill on the 20080820.....Then to WSMR 20080829!

see you their on the 22nd im in the same course as you

report fort sill 20080819/WSMR 20080829

I Show up To Ft. Sill 20080910 how do you guys know you are going to WSMR I have no idea other than my ship date.

it says in your papper work

I leave meps for Fort Sill 21aug. My WSMR date says 29sept. In your guys opinion do you think I'll stay around till 29sept or will they get me into the 29aug class?

Im kind of curious if the last date for WTC is in September? Or are there more classes after that...or do they begin again in January. I haven't found anything in my searches. Any help would be appreciated! Not trying to steal the thread

Good Luck to all you guys, my hubby is in Fort Sill doing WTC right now and said it is very hard, he is 41 . The running is the hardest he said. So work on your running.

Having actually completed WTC at lovely Fort Sill, I can tell you that all you are in for is a crash PT course/weight loss program, and nothing more. If you are expecting anything beyond an extremely cursory and spotty "familiarization" with Army equipment and procedures, and a few tasks from the SMCT, then you're in for a rude disappointment.

As a prior service soldier I was appalled at the brevity and incompleteness of the instructional program. I came there expecting more, but was left with a sense of disappointment. I did get back into shape though.

Every aspect of the training there had a hurried and slipshod air about it. I do not fault the drills there who are made to teach the course, they do the best with what they have to work with. I fault whoever came up with the curriculum they pass off as "training". At best it's nothing more than familiarization. I'd honestly feel better served by being issued a pamphlet on most of the course material and be allowed time to read it. Too much training is left up to the gaining unit to complete, be it an AIT or an actual line unit.

So far here at my AIT none of that additional training has materialized as I am considered to be already trained. From discussions with the basic trainees here, there isn't a lot of that going on with them either, and they complain of similar huge gaps in their training. All of those tasks in the SMCT are there for them to see, and they can see exactly what they're missing out on. Much of it can not be self taught, and so they're not left with a lot of options.

Some of the graduates of WTC are going straight to deployments, and woe to them if their unit doesn't pick up on the fact that they barely know anything, since they probably assume they're already trained up to standard.

The drills there did their best, but were saddled with a lack of time and a poor syllabus to work with. Too much work needs to be done with many of the students as they are in dismal physical shape, that there is a great deal of "culture shock" to be overcome with veterans of other services, that some have been civilians for quite a while, and that all of this has to be done in 4 paltry weeks.

It's hard enough just trying to whip a bunch of old guys into shape in 4 weeks, and then you throw what is essentially a watered down and butchered version of basic training on top of it. It's not pretty.

What most of us need is basic training again in its entirety, but adjusted for the fact that we're all prior service and already know the game being played. Much of the usual head games and "breaking" process can be dispensed with. That way we'd actually be able to focus on the training (and get more of it) and be able to take away something more than a vague notion of how the army works and what it does. This is especially true for those transferring from other branches. Those of us who were prior Army have an edge over other services, but the longer you've been out, the smaller the advantage.

Unfortunately that isn't going to happen, as training time costs money, and money is in high demand. The graduates of WTC are being done a disservice by being told they're trained. Nothing could be further from the truth.

However, if this is indeed what passes for training in the Army today (and I'm slowly coming to that conclusion), then it's slipped a lot further than I thought possible in the last 2 decades.

There's too much of a frantic air about things (rushing people through whether they're ready or not or even need to be in the Army) surrounding every aspect of the induction process (from MEPS to AIT)to be isolated occurrences. In my opinion it boils down to desperation on the part of the Army to get and keep as many people as possible in the face of 7 years of unremitting warfare, and increase the size of the force simultaneously; the old "warm body" standard.

Please be aware of the shortcomings WTC has, and adjust accordingly. Be prepared for a lot of long days, and a fairly intensive physical training regimen. Above all be ready for a flurry of "familiarization" subjects that will leave you wondering what the hell you haven't been taught.

Good luck

This message has been edited. Last edited by: desantnik89,

Nicely put! Most I agree with, some I don't. As a "drill" at Fort Sill, I/we are dealt a curriculum and must follow it with very little deviation. What I disagree with is telling you guys upon graduation that you are "trained" and ready to fight. I strongly feel that a lot of people who come through WTC should not be allowed back in at all. Secondly, some of the ones who have the potential to be great Soldiers NEED TO GO TO BASIC again to fully get back into the game. Finally, there are the rest. The one's who still know what is going on, mostly prior Army folks. Believe me when I say that I would rather not be in "Drill Sergeant" mode as much as I have to be these days. I would rather be an instructor to the ones who want it. But, we spend more time dealing with the nonsense of others and put the good ones on the back burner. It sucks!!!

The entire course is definitely a refresher course, maybe even an introduction at most on some subjects. WTC is still a new program in the Army but many Soldiers get hurt when we try to do something different. We can't win.

My advice to all of you is to roll with the punches and do what you are asked/told to do, which by the way is and always has been, the Army way in some fashion or another.

The Army of today is very different than it used to be. Good in some ways, bad in others. But what workplace isn't????

Good luck to you all. The hardest part of the course is EACH OTHER!!!

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here, I never said you said we were trained. There seems to be an impression here that the people going there are to be trained (or at least leave there trained). There certainly doesn't seem to be any widespread knowledge of WTC or what it's about out there in the "big army".

Almost everyone I've told about it has had the reaction of "Huh? You mean WLC." Perhaps that's why people just assume when they see the badges, combat patches, and whatnot (or for that matter just the rank and the "US ARMY" tape on your chest, that you're good to go and know what you're doing. They certainly don't know about WTC or what it does. That misconception worries me.

So anyway, the referring to graduates as "trained" isn't anything you've put out per se, but a perception of others; those that have graduated and don't know any better, and those who just see a soldier in uniform and assume the best. We all know that isn't an indication of sh*t, as there are more than enough d**che bags out there who are walking disasters.

I agree with you completely that there are a lot of people going through WTC that have no **cking business being there. I'm sure you remember Bullock. (And there's your clue as to who I might be, that and I used to be MI) It bothers me to no end that so many who have no business being there get past the screening process. I don't know if it's a matter of the ball being dropped by someone along the way, or (my true suspicion) it's just a bunch of warm bodies being stuffed in to make quota. Oh well, wartime expediency and all that, right? lol

I can only hope that the powers that be listen to what you have to say in regards to making the course into what it should be. I know that at the very least the NCOs from other services should go straight to WLC before they set foot at their AIT (or their first unit for those going that route). The quality of those NCOs in general left much to be desired. The list of potential improvements is endless, but you know that.

I miss my old Army.

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Well "desantnik" I can assume that you were in my platoon with your reference to Bullock... Maybe not.However, I still don't know who you are. Are you choosing to remain anonymous?

Glenn... So soon you forget? lol And besides, how many intel guys do you have cycling through that place?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: desantnik89,

I have a profile too, with a picture and everything!

GLENN!!!! I did not know you felt that way about the course. It's all good. You have a lot of good points but sounds like you have some bad feelings about your time here. Understandably so.

I would love to hear your recommendations on how to make the course better. Keep in mind the caliber of people who come through here, their age, their mental capacity, physical potential, and all around ability to adapt to Army life!

Good luck with that!!!

Not bad feelings per se, just an overall sense of "that was it?" I suppose I was expecting something more, but I got through it and am working vigorously to expand and revitalize my skills. After a short time I understood the restraints you were working under and adjusted my views accordingly. You gotta do what they tell you to do, right? The course was on the right track, it's just that it was too damned short. So much so that the things that needed to be covered in more depth were barely brushed over.

For us prior Army types it was definitely a refresher, albeit a cursory one. But for a refresher to be effective there has to be a previous knowledge/skill base to work with. Since most of the Navy and Air Force guys didn't have that, they were left sucking wind even with the curriculum as watered down as it was.

Give me a little time and I can come up with a more complete list of improvements for the course. I was taking notes about what shortfalls there were throughout the course. Let me dig them up and I'll get back with you. I can go ahead and tell you what it boils down to is more time. But I know that probably isn't going to happen what with money so tight and all. And don't even get me started on 95th AG, that is unless you want to hear all that too. I suppose they're just as much a part of the process there as you.

Hope all is going well there.

Sounds good. 95th is another animal in itself. We on the training side don't have anything to do with them other than picking you guys up and taking you back there if there are problems to be handled. We have said our piece on that and that is all we can do.

I'll start with 95th AG, since that's who started with me. The battalion is woefully understaffed, and organized to deal with basic trainees, not WTC students. I can't tell you how many times our group was left hanging while we were inprocessing. Every day we had a different cadre member assigned to us, which caused untold amounts of confusion, since no one seemed to communicate with anyone about what was going on.

Consequently a lot of stuff fell by the wayside, like not enrolling our families in DEERS for more than a week. A lot of this could have been handled on our own since we had plenty of NCOs in our group. However, the cadre seemed unable to shift mental gears from basic trainee mode and never allowed us to exercise any initiative.

It was further complicated by the fact that we were never told anything about what we were to be doing. A simple inprocessing checklist would have worked wonders, but we were unable to answer a simple question like: "What do you have left to inprocess?" Every day was a mystery, and when you asked questions to find out what was going on, more often than not you were ignored or greeted with indifference or outright hostility.

We quickly gathered the impression that WTC was a pain in their collective posteriors. Those of you heading there will quickly see what I'm talking about. The disgust and frustration in the voices of the people inprocessing you is evident.

The problem is that there is a sort of institutional schizophrenia at 95th AG. They're set up to handle boatloads of brain-dead trainees, not WTC students who've already been around the block and know what's going on. So they try to treat us differently, but always reset to default 'scream at the trainee' mode. Apparently they can't be seen to treat us any differently than the rest of the hordes.

It's stupid, because we are different, thus the schizophrenia. They can't separate us from the basic trainees in their minds, and it causes endless problems. What 95th AG needs to do at the very least is set up a separate platoon or battery of cadre to handle the WTC class load exclusively. It wouldn't have to be very many people.

Also the holding barracks there is a god awful mess. While you wait to get into a class, be prepared for abysmal living conditions: rooms in poor repair, grossly inadequate hygiene facilities, and a general state of neglect for the building as a whole. No one cares about the place since they're only there for a short time and leave, and there is certainly a dismissive attitude from the 95th AG cadre as to how the place holds up. Their concern is spotty at best, punctuated here and there with random inspections that seem to be more connected to someone's mood than actual concern over living conditions.

The living conditions in the barracks need to be brought up to standard, period.

Also, Fort Sill is pretty much a sausage party. No women cycle through there for basic training. Hence, the initial clothing bag issue there isn't set up for women specific uniform items or smaller sizes in things like ACUs and boots. Easily fixed.

As for the inprocessing hangups, with a dedicated cadre, the issue should settle itself out quickly. Allowing us to move about in smaller groups to zip through the usual backlog areas would help too. If you suddenly descend on DEERS unannounced in a group of 30, they won't take you. Show up in a group of 3... they can squeeze you in. Some things have to be done en masse, there's no getting around it. But there's that basic trainee mindset present that won't allow for it.

That's it for 95th AG. The course itself will be next.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: desantnik89,

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