I have been reading posts here since January. It has been brought to my attention that some, not all, but some WTC higher ranking recruits tend to have an attitude problem when it comes to how the speak to fellow lower ranking WTC recruits. What is the deal? Do you have to show them proper respect for thier rank? Do you have to put up with disrespect or, do you have the freedom to voice your opposition to how they treat you or other recruits? Not only was I a Marine I was a damn good one. The first thing they teach you in marine NCO school is respect is earned not just given to you on a silver platter. Lead by example and make sure it is a good one! We learned how to honor and respect your lower ranking Marines. Do not ask them to do anything that you are not willing to do yourself and be prepared to show them how a Marine does it! So do you just shut up and swallow thier disrespect or explain to them the definition of repect? May sound like a silly question but in WTC we all will be recruits after all. Anyway, just a question and remember once a Marine, always a Marine, until you become a soldier!!
I've noticed some of the same bit here. I really think that it isn't as bad as being reported, because the effective leaders don't get the press that the crappy ones do.
On the other hand, there are quite a few E-4, E-5 types (and I got out as an E-5) that truly believe that leadership = yelling. I'm a bit nervous about where I'm going to land. Not that it matters, I'll do what I'm asked to and I'll be effective. I guess that's what we all have to do in order to really make this thing work.
I see this question a lot on this form from those getting ready to attend WTC. You have to remember you are there for a very short time compared to your Army Career. My back ground, I attended WTC in NOV/07 after a 16yrs break in service from the Marine Corps working as a Police Officer in Florida. I had to swallow a lot of pride and march on especially after the Army bumped my rank down to SPC after being a SGT/P in the Marine Corps waiting to pin SSGT.
You may or may not see this issue come up while at the course just remember to always be professional and march on. WTC is not the Army it’s a refresher course for most such as Soldiers and Marines. While other Branches of Service may need the full attention and training the course provides. This sometimes causes issues during training and a little frustration but for the most part if you maintain your military bearing you’ll be fine.
I attended the course at age 43 as a SPC and didn’t have a problem at all. I’ll now 45 and a SSG and doing well in the Army. You may get yelled at during the course the saying during may class was ”Water off a Ducks Back”. Do the training get the boxes checked off and go home to your unit.
Honestly... I don't believe this is a concern due to the short time spent here. Yes, the Army has structure and rank. Yes, you should respect the rank regardless of the person.
Ladies and Gentlemen... WTC is to teach you the basic and get you up to speed. What you do and make of your career following is purely up to.
Don't sweat the small stuff and try to have fun knowing you'll reap the benefits of being a Soldier again.
Okay, let me put this to rest right now. I just returned last week.
More soldiers than I can count were ready to get a General Discharge to get out that place. Everyone there treats everyone with total disrespect especially the cadres in 4th Platoon, Black Nites. This is not my opinion it is a fat out fact.
The Cadres have zero leadership skills and they believe that treating people like scum is the way to get soldiers to follow them, this has a profound effect on the soldiers and thus they do the same to everyone in the platoon.
I would have to say this was the worst military experience I have had thus far in my 8 years. Good thing they are shutting this program down!!
BTW all the other platoons had plenty of their own in-fighting go on so I'm sure it wasn't just our platoon.
Yeah, I agree get thru it like everyone is saying here but this is no excuse for a training environment where a lot of NCO's are going to go back and lead the same way.
We were told by the brass at Fort Sill that we were shutting WTC down. There are a couple more classes going thru but from here on out WTC is no more and its back to BCT for everyone else.
That should be fun for the 30 and 40 something year old soldiers to go back and be treated like children again.
WTC is NOT shuting down...The units that are training WTC are opening up for the summer surge and WTC will be going to ONE battery. The other batteries will resume WTC training in the fall.
I was a SSG returning after 20 years out. I went to WTC at Sill in July 07. We had some cadre who felt it necessary to belittle returning soldiers from other services. Thats thier problem not yours. Who cares if some E6 active army DS wants to yell at you and call you bad names. I am twice the man/father/husband/ and soldier he is so why would it bug me if some 20 something SSG wants to call a man names who is twice his age who served 8 years before he was even born?
Water off a ducks back... absolutely. The cadre need to stress you out to see how you respond, especially if you are an NCO. I think I learned more from those bad attitude monents than i did on the good times.
As far as the trainee e5 and e6's (or even E7's in our case) yes, you had better respect my rank. And also, respect may be earned for the man, but not the rank. Respect of my rank is not something you get to decide on. If you decide my rank on me is not worthy of your respect, then you disrespect the entire army NCO corp. You may have been a SGT in the Marines, but you are not in the Marines now, you got out. You are in the Army now, and you are not a SGT now, and you will show proper respect for an NCO whether you like or not. Yes, some NCOs at WTC really need the follow on NCO course. I wish they had it when I was there, I could have used it.
Respect for an NCO regardless of his behavior is required, it makes you more of a man and soldier than he is when you show respect for his rank even when the man doesnt deserve it. Rise above, take the high road, etc... and drive on. be a better NCO than he was. Learn from his/her failures to lead.
WTC is just over 4 weeks long, immediately after that I am scheduled to attend the last 7 1/2 weeks of infantry OSUT at Ft. Benning. So, all together you will be looking at just over 12 weeks of training.
Originally posted by BIGTALIKILLER: WTC is just over 4 weeks long, immediately after that I am scheduled to attend the last 7 1/2 weeks of infantry OSUT at Ft. Benning. So, all together you will be looking at just over 12 weeks of training.
Thanks. I'm prior service AF, thinking about going National Guard 11B. I read on the Guard web-site they are offering up to 15k for prior service, enlisting in certain MOSs do you know if 11B is one of them? Joining for the pride of serving again, but any extra bonus would be welcome, to help pay the bills...
I graduated WTC in Feb 09 SSgt Merril and SSgt Jones were my Cadre. Both of these NCO's were profesional and could be pain's in the ass at times. That's their job's. I will always have a great deal of respect for both of them. Like most other military training I've been through, AF 18 years eariler, it sucks while your their and not that bad once your finished. Of course I did hear about other Batteries that were not as well run as our's I was in 1-79 Delta and thought it was a well run program. The important thing to remember is "Don't sweat the small stuff!!!!" It's not that long folks. I was a 42 yr old prior AF guy and I made it. They will teach you what they can in a short period of time. They will ruch you, treat you like a herd of cattle at times. There are alot of thing's they are trying to accomplish in a short time, so sometimes please and thank you are left out but remember we are living in dangerous times for our profession. Keep your priorities straight.
I don't think he has 18 years in the Air Force, he just joined the Air Force 18 years ago. Much like I joined the Navy 18 years ago, but have a 9.9 year break in service.
It seems that "some of you" have taken my question in the wrong context. I will have absolutely no problem with how the Cadre treat me or speak to me, they are there to train me and I totally respect that. My only question was concerning other trainees. You have made your point, I was not sweating it or losing sleep over it. Was just wondering if I could respectfully voice my opinion to other trainees. "Respectfully" being the key word there. Anyway if there are any problems or no problems I know I will handle them appropiately. I am just very happy to get the chance to serve again.
Originally posted by BIGTALIKILLER: It seems that "some of you" have taken my question in the wrong context. I will have absolutely no problem with how the Cadre treat me or speak to me, they are there to train me and I totally respect that. My only question was concerning other trainees. You have made your point, I was not sweating it or losing sleep over it. Was just wondering if I could respectfully voice my opinion to other trainees. "Respectfully" being the key word there. Anyway if there are any problems or no problems I know I will handle them appropiately. I am just very happy to get the chance to serve again.
At Ft. Benning when your mixed in with IET Soldiers is YES they want your Prior Service Experience / Input but NO they don't want you to try and dominate them if the IET soldier is in a leadership position over you and of lesser rank. So I think the answer is yes one-on-one but no blurted out while on a patrol or in a formation. You should also allow them to learn and make mistakes (by not listening to you). So you have it correct...respectfully.
You should do fine as a Marine NCO in this area, really. It's almost identical as 0311 Marines. Even though your Prior Service your joining a Infantry training unit that has bonded the last eight weeks of OSUT before you arrived mid-stream. So thats the context.
One thing else I will throw in here, for Infantry Companies especially. Sometimes in the Army a lesser ranked individual has more authority then a NCO. A Spec 4 can have more authority then a E5-E7 in the Army if that Spec 4 is the Unit Armorer.
The authority is limited to issues surrounding the issueance and maintenence of weapons systems though. Not sure if they have that in the Marines but something to be aware of. the 1SGT can delegate is authority to someone of lesser rank vs a NCO via written memo posted in the Company area (at least thats how it was when I served). As a NCO you can't really overrule that person with rank even though his rank is subordinate without first going through the 1SGT BUT only on Arms room issues.
I used to be a unit armorer and I sometimes had fun with that rule. It was sometimes like that scene from the movie "Caddyshack" where the guy gets short changed with buying a Coke.....lol.
Thanks again Erich. Well I submitted the request up the ladder to attend the full 14 week OSUT program rather than attend WTC "IF" I can get an earlier ship date. That was Tuesday, no word yet but we will see. My station commander said it is highly unlikely since they are giving non-prior service new recruits a Feb-2010 ship date but, I have my fingers crossed. Wish me luck, thanks again.
It seems that "some of you" have taken my question in the wrong context. I will have absolutely no problem with how the Cadre treat me or speak to me, they are there to train me and I totally respect that. My only question was concerning other trainees. You have made your point, I was not sweating it or losing sleep over it. Was just wondering if I could respectfully voice my opinion to other trainees. "Respectfully" being the key word there. Anyway if there are any problems or no problems I know I will handle them appropiately. I am just very happy to get the chance to serve again.
I went thru WTC with a former marine E5 who came into the RA as an E1. Somehow he did something that made the marines drop him to E1 and seperate him, and that is just a guess based on what he alluded to. This guy was more of an NCO that all of us NCOs were. he voiced his concerns, suggested alternatives, supported my authority as Plt Sgt, was a weapons expert par excellance...
If I could have promoted him to E2 I would have. If I was a CO in the field, i would promote him to CPL at least.
He showed me what a marine is. Since then I have met several former marines, here and while serving. I have nothing but respect for them now.
You obvioulsy fit into that category. You have the right mind-set for this. Just wait it out. you will get there.
Originally posted by BIGTALIKILLER: Thanks again Erich. Well I submitted the request up the ladder to attend the full 14 week OSUT program rather than attend WTC "IF" I can get an earlier ship date. That was Tuesday, no word yet but we will see. My station commander said it is highly unlikely since they are giving non-prior service new recruits a Feb-2010 ship date but, I have my fingers crossed. Wish me luck, thanks again.
Station Commander would know better then me on this stuff so I'd listen to him.
You can read bits and parts about how the Army Accession system works (if your curious) by Google of "Army ARISS". Thats just the mechanics (not the rules or procedures).....I read a little bit, pretty cool.
