Hi all,

I'm currently finishing up a year-long deployment in Iraq with the ARNG. I ETS in one year and have been looking for a new home. I started looking at the ANG after realizing a few things about the Army (specifically the Guard):

• 12+ month deployments are too long. I understand deployments are necessary and I'm okay with it. But 70% of the time I've spent here was completely wasted literally doing nothing or being needlessly redundant. It is very frustrating.
  
• At least in CA where I'm from, the Guard is constantly broke so there's not many opportunities in the ARNG. However, I see the monthly Guard newsletter and it looks like the ANG always has something going on.
  

I'm considering Loadmaster (among some other jobs) primarily because I love flying and I love traveling. Would you say I am correct in my assumption that it's what I will be doing? Or is it like the Army where I'll probably end up doing something completely unrelated?

I love the military and I want to stay in, but I'm not happy with what the CAARNG currently has to offer. I need to find my happy place [/Happy Gilmore]. Thanks for any input.

I came over from the Army and it was the best decision I have ever made...except cleaning up at the crime scene to protect me.

I was also a LM for 12 years..you will fly and you will travel. Just get out of the Army if you can.

quote:

Originally posted by Junglejett:
I came over from the Army and it was the best decision I have ever made...except cleaning up at the crime scene to protect me.

I was also a LM for 12 years..you will fly and you will travel. Just get out of the Army if you can.

Thanks for the response. Would you mind detailing why it's the best decision you ever made? Keep in mind I know almost nothing about the AF or ANG, been Army my whole career so far.

I'm prior Army as well. Put it this way, you sleep in tents in a parking lot, we are in the hotel room looking down into the parking lot at you wondering why the hell you guys are in tents. I used to complain about it being too cold when it rains on me while on guard duty, only getting an hour here and there of sleep, having to mop and buff floors, getting treated like a dirtbag, having to march everywhere, etc. Now I find myself complaining because the hotel tends to run out of hot water on UTA's some mornings, or when it storms the satellite TV in my hotel room sometimes goes out. Oh yea, and that damn free wireless can get slow too. Those 45 day deployments are a ***** as well.

Any other questions?

quote:

Originally posted by PD3rdACR:
I'm prior Army as well. Put it this way, you sleep in tents in a parking lot, we are in the hotel room looking down into the parking lot at you wondering why the hell you guys are in tents. I used to complain about it being too cold when it rains on me while on guard duty, only getting an hour here and there of sleep, having to mop and buff floors, getting treated like a dirtbag, having to march everywhere, etc. Now I find myself complaining because the hotel tends to run out of hot water on UTA's some mornings, or when it storms the satellite TV in my hotel room sometimes goes out. Oh yea, and that damn free wireless can get slow too. Those 45 day deployments are a ***** as well.

Any other questions?

You are making this sound too-good to be true. Is there anything you noticed about the AF the the Army did better or in a manner you preferred? I also realize there's little to no option for Airborne training the the AF outside of SOC, and that is one incentive that might make me stay Army.

quote:

Originally posted by Kram12085:

You are making this sound too-good to be true. Is there anything you noticed about the AF the the Army did better or in a manner you preferred? I also realize there's little to no option for Airborne training the the AF outside of SOC, and that is one incentive that might make me stay Army.

I am not exaggerating...AT ALL.

If you want airborne why not just go spec ops in the Air Force? They have reserve TACP and Pararescue types. Your quality of life will still be a ton better than the Army. USAF is about quality of life, period. Especially in the reserves. They realize you don't have to be here and if they make life suck for you then you won't stick around. When was the last times the Army asked you to take a survey on how they can make you more happy? I just took one for the Air Force last UTA. Take it or leave it, USAF is leaps and bounds above the Army in quality of life, period.

My one complaint, can't crosstrain for crap here.

Im also prior Army....i was active duty and i can tell you that this was the best decision ive made. I was having some issues at first because i didnt know if i wanted to do reserve, national guard or even go active in the AF...but so far Im liking the ANG. Im in school and I drill every month, however since we are currently moving and rebuilding our ops area, im kind of reporting to duty on a daily basis to work. When it comes to morale and commoradity, my flight seems pretty well connected and very mature....however getting promotions in the ANG seems like an eternity. When i was in the Army however, I moved through the ranks pretty quickly....the downside to my Army experience, specially where i was stationed.....my platoon leaders were always at a ****ing contest with themselves or others and at times made lives miserable.....The Army was great because it built character and it gave me discipline but the AF was the best choice for me. Im a college student, I have a family to watch over, and those 12 month deployments were enough, I was in OIF1 and 3 and Ive missed alot during those times. I think youll enjoy the ANG, so far everyone ive spoken with that was Prior service from the AR that transferred to AF seems to really like it...good luck

I'm prior Army Guard and Marine Corps active duty. DO IT. Do not wait. Its like a complete different world. A better world.

When I go to drill, Angels sing.

Get out of the Army now.

Good luck.

Hey dude..I too am a CA guy, and I was Army, then CAARNG out of San Jose and then Fresno.

I left the green suit after OIF3 and came over to the ANG. I have been in school retraining as a C-130 Flight Engineer for almost 2 years now. I am almost finished and ready to head back to NorCal.

Like it has been said above...night and f-ing day difference.

However...If you did PLDC (or whatever it's called now), it will not carry over, so you'll need to re-accomplish NCO school. They don't recognize it, or BNCOC/ANCOC. I highly suggest trying to go to the Air Force entry level NCO school (Called Airman Leadership School) in residence, vs. via correspondence, as it is a 5 week opportunity to learn how to "speak blue". I did mine at Vandenberg. It helped this old Sarge out quite a bit. Things made better sense after I attended.

I would contact the recruiter, and be sure you are qualified for the position you want. You need a Class 3 flight physical to be a load. My physical took quite a while to get approved up in Sacramento, so get your ducks in a row early on, and follow up with the recruiter/section of the new unit...make sure your stuff is getting handled in a timely manner.

I'll spit off a few things that I encountered...bear with me here...better to know this going in than learn it the hard way like I did.

Security clearance will likely need to be re-accomplished, as the Army doesn't always do the clearance to the same standard. I had mine pulled, and had to go through a re-investigation. If you saved your SF-86 from the Army, keep it, and use it for your new paperwork (always keep your SF-86...memory sucks as you age). If you don't have one, download one off the web and fill out as much of it as you can ahead of time. Get that done and over with early on.

Awards...get paper copies from your S-1, and try to be sure you have order numbers on them. Most all awards transfer over. State awards as well, but bring proof. DD-214 or hardcopy orders with order numbers. Unit awards earned while you were a member also count, so bring proof of the unit award during your period of service if it isn't on a DD-214. When you separate from the Army, you need to get an NGB-22 (like a DD-214 for the guard). Verify that is correct BEFORE you give it to the ANG.

If you accomplished a PT test in the year that you will join the ANG, get a hardcopy of it as well. It may be accepted in lieu of having to re-accomplish the AF test. I was actually sent home from Survival School because I didn't have a current test on file. My NCOIC assumed I had a valid Army test, but it was expeired. Don't be "that guy".

That's all I got off the top of my head. Hopefully others will chime in on their "hurdles".

The switch is TOTALLY worth making. Don't worry about jump wings...you'll have a lot more fun as a loadie watching the jumpers exit the aircraft. Because when THEY hit the deck, they will still have to hump ruck. When YOU hit the deck, you will head to the bar at the nice hotel you are getting per-diem to stay at.

Membership has it's privileges...

Wow, thanks for the thorough response (and everyone else's responses as well).

I did WLC (formerly PLDC) but it wasn't a biggie. Flight Engineer is another job I'm considering, I just want the opportunity to fly as much without being a pilot (bad vision).

I'm going to look into LASIK/PRK when I'm home and assuming I get it, I'm going to apply to the Army WOFT (helo pilot) program. That's probably going to be the only thing that will keep me Green. Otherwise, I'm definitely going to cross over.

lstgnfghtr - Did you have trouble finding a helpful recruiter? Before I initially enlisted, I had trouble finding anyone in the ANG to help me out so I went with Army who were more willing to answer my questions. Also, did you look into the AFR? Any pros/cons to AFR vs. ANG in CA?

I did have trouble. There was no shortage of Army guys trying to un-ass the green suit and cross over. I initially tried to get on C-5's out of Travis, but they wouldn't put me through school being a prior service guy (long story, but now that I am an Air Force flyer, I understand why). I went through 3 different recruiters before someone would sit down and actually put in the time to try to get me re-enlisted (I had been on Stop-Loss, and was already fully ETS'ed from the Army Guard)

It took them 3 months of having to call 15 times to get 1 reply before they told me they couldn't get me in a flight slot, but if i were willing to join as a Services troop, or as a cop, that i could "easily" cross train later.

I had been in boots for over 10 years, and was a Staff Sergeant...and they tried that crap on me. I couldn't believe it.

I popped smoke and disengaged...called up Moffett Field near San Jose and talked to a very helpful recruiter who said the slots were hard to come by, but that he would meet with me.

The Guard folks worked diligently to make it happen. There were a lot of delays, but I have to say that the guys I work for now are some of the best supervisors I've ever had while in boots.

BTW...I too wanted to go WOFT, and had to turn it down due to family. If you can pull it off, do it. I have an autistic son, and I needed to find a slot that didn't deploy for a year at a time, so when I got my shot at Rucker, I had to decline. I am a civilian Pilot with quite a bit of helo time as well, and it was a tough call...but it was the right one for me.

I will always wonder, though.

Flight Engineer is pretty integrated in the C-130 cockpit, though. You might as well be a pilot...you are what the airlines call a 2nd officer, and you are RIGHT there between, and just aft of the pilots...in charge of the engines, the fuel system, the pressurization, the electrical system, the anti-icing, and a zillion other things. We refuel helicopters in-flight, so I run that system as well. Busy job, but a lot of fun.

Flight Engineer in the Guard has some pre-requisites still...you must have an aviation Mx background (your MOS has to directly cross over to an Air Force AFSC in the Mx field...there is a list of them), or you have to have your A&P license, your AMT license, or your private pilot license to qualify for retraining. It is not available to entry level Troops...I've never seen anyone less than a promotable E-4 in the job, and it' s mostly 5's and 6's in the schoolhouses.

Very hard school...I won't lie. Our unit has had the last few guys they sent through get washed out...one was in my class with me, and didn't make it out of Little Rock, and another former Army Crew Chief on 60's washed out here at Kirtland at the AFSOC school. My other buddy on KC-10's out of Travis was a former Army Crew Chief in Sacramento, and he also washed out...he is a high time commercial pilot that flies corporate jets.

So...it ain't no walk in the park...but it's WAY worth it if you can stick it out.

You can apply to WOFT from the Air Force ranks as well, you know. Any enlisted member can apply to WOFT from any service, and if you are accepted, you are very likely to be released from your command to attend Rucker.

The ANG is similar to the ARNG in CA when it comes to drill issues, OTAG bullcrap, and funding issues. Some things change, but those things stay the same. On the good side of it, if you live out of the commuting area, they will put you up in a hotel for drills...not just for AT like the Army (I used to drive from the Bay Area to Fresno and pay out of pocket to stay in a room when I was a traditional M-Day guy...pay-to-play)

Thanks again for an excellent write-up for an outsider. I should be home in a few weeks and I'll start talking to recruiters.

Did you also talk to the Air Force Reserve? I plan to talking to both to see what each has to offer...

Yes, i should have specified that the Travis experience of being the LAST on their priority list was the Reserve...not the Guard. The Guard is more pro-active in recruiting. The Reserve tends to get a lot of folks from Active Duty, especially for flying jobs. The Guard works a bit harder to fill their recruiting mission, I find.

If you need assistance when you get back, hit me up on commercial email at

M C 1 3 0 F E @ gmail.com (without the spaces...that's for the mailbots).

I should be home in a week or so myself if I pass my upcoming checkride, so I'll be more than happy to chat with you about it and get you some good POC numbers for the specific units/jobs you are interested in. I have both NorCal and SoCal contacts to share with you.

1stgnfgtr,

I sent you an email a few weeks ago but never heard back so I'm not sure if you got it or not. I'm back in the states now so I'm going to start shopping for a new unit/MOS/service. If you get a chance, I'd like to talk to you via email regarding going to the ANG/AFR.

If you didn't get my previous email, drop me a line at [my username]@yahoo.com. It's not my current email address, but should get forwarded.

Thanks.

I sent you one. Let me know when you get it. Glad to be of whatever help I can be.

Was active army for three years. It's true, the air force is a different world. Hotel living, as opposed to tents, going TDY to places where you make 60 dollars a day, for example, as opposed to places where you only make three dollars a day. Generally, you are treated with more respect by your superiors.

On the flip side, the air force suffers a terrible lack in military discipline. I've been on all three sides of air force duty and they are all the same. When you go to tech school you will see. It's as if the kids there never went to basic training. My time in active duty army I witnessed more military professionalism than the active air force, AFR, and ANG combined. But I am still on this side of the fence and unless I get a commission, I will never put on an army uniform again.