OK, so I signed an 11X contract at the end of September and I leave for Ft. Benning in January. I wanted option 40 in my contract but it was not available at the time and since I was not very well informed I went ahead with the airborne contract in the hopes of signing up for RIP after AIT.

My ASVAB scores couldn't have been much higher, I don't see any problems with me getting secret clearance since the interview went very well, and I could pass most of the Ranger physical qualifications already so I am confident in my ability to become a Ranger if given the opportunity but the more time I spend around the Army, the more I regret not waiting for an option 40 contract.

I know it's possible to become a Ranger without having it in your contract but I've heard a lot of different answers as to my chances.

No offense to the Airborne guys on these forums but I'm not sure if I would be satisfied if I didn't at least get the opportunity to be a Ranger. It's just something that I have my mind and heart set on.

So, basically, my question is what are the chances of a 21 year old going in as an E-3 who's in good shape, a fast learner, and has strong test taking abilities actually getting the opportunity to go to RIP without it in their contract? If the chances are low, would it be possible to delay shipping and get my contract changed when a spot opens up?


Thanks in advance!

quote:

Originally posted by killmatic:
So, basically, my question is what are the chances of a 21 year old going in as an E-3 who's in good shape, a fast learner, and has strong test taking abilities actually getting the opportunity to go to RIP without it in their contract? If the chances are low, would it be possible to delay shipping and get my contract changed when a spot opens up?


Thanks in advance!

Very high chance in war time if your 11B in the Regular Army. It was relatively high in peacetime if you asked for it as 11 series.

Special Forces, same deal. Also, if your willing to enlist again after a Infantry Enlistment.....your chances increase to almost a certainty it will be offered if your a good Soldier.

OK, I want to put in my .02 on this.

I've seen a lot of new soldiers get ticked off because the Army doesn't send them off to be Airborne/Ranger/Special Forces right away.

First off, if you're a high-speed low drag type of person, and you want to be in a high-speed low drag unit, start off with that IN your enlistment contract.

Don't give up, and don't hesitate to do more, but be patient if it doesn't happen overnight. And most of all, don't adopt the idea that just because you WANT to go to a high-speed unit, your present unit isn't "worthy" of your best effort.

One of the major pitfalls is when you sign up for a regular unit and then change your mind, the Army doesn't always agree with your new plans right off the bat. Understand, if you sign up to be regular Infantry, an MP, CAV scout, cook, clerk, whatever, the Army "expects" to have you filling that slot.

It's great that you want to do more, and YOU SHOULD WANT TO DO MORE, and you SHOULD (EVENTUALLY) BE GIVEN THAT CHANCE. But it's unrealistic to think that they're automatically going to pull you out of whatever training and/or unit you're in just because you've developed the desire to try it.

The best advice is GET IT IN YOUR CONTRACT to start, and if not, KEEP TRYING, but don't get discouraged because most likely it will take more time and effort.

Past your initial training, the line unit you'll be assigned to needs soldiers, and they are probably very unlikely to take a newly arriving soldier and free them up to take on new carreer path (ie: Ranger/ SF/ etc...). Why? Because these slots are generally rare, and highly sought after by other soldiers, most of whom have already earned the confidence and respect of the unit they're in.

I've seen a lot of potentially great soldiers get discouraged because they weren't moving on to better things faster then they thought possible. In the end, they never moved on, and never fit in.

If it takes you a while, even a whole enlistment, before you move on, you'll still be a more rounded and capable soldier, with a higher chance of success, if you put your effort into your current job in the meantime.

Maybe you'll be able to move on right away, but if not, give it your best effort and attitude where you're at until that oppertunity is availible.

Again, just my .02 on it.
SGT US.Army, Infantry Sniper, Iraq Combat Veteran

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately, I strongly doubt I will re-enlist unless I have the opportunity to become a Ranger my first time through (4 years) so those comments don't apply to me at this point.

FloridaScoutSniper I understand what you're saying but to analogize the situation, not getting at least the opportunity to TRY to become a Ranger would be like playing JV basketball/football/etc. all through high school because the coach won't even let you try out for Varsity. It would not only make me miserable but it hurts the school having Varsity caliber players on the JV team.

I am strongly considering getting my contract renegotiated and refusing to ship without option 40. I wouldn't have even signed up for four years if I didn't think I needed to for RIP. The way I look at it, if waiting for an option 40 contract pushes my ship date back 6 months to a year, the only thing I will regret is not taking a stand the first time at MEPS. If I ship in January and don't get RIP then I will quite possibly regret my entire enlistment and most likely be unhappy in some sense.

So what exactly would I have to do to renegotiate my contract? My recruiter is completely unreliable and lazy so he'll probably avoid anything that means more paperwork for him.

quote:

Originally posted by killmatic:
So what exactly would I have to do to renegotiate my contract? My recruiter is completely unreliable and lazy so he'll probably avoid anything that means more paperwork for him.

Ask your Recruiter to change your contract and if he refuses or delays ask for who he reports to, then ask that person and go higher and higher. Thats how the Army works.

Eventually, you'll find someone to change your contract (or they will instruct your Recruiter to) or you will get your azz chewed. Either way you will get your answer. You have to see past the "I'm your buddy" marketing pitch to get what you want sometimes.

Don't let him delay, ask pointed questions:

"Sergeant, when can I expect the revised contract to be ready for me to sign?"

"Sergeant, when can I expect your phone call to me when this is completed?"

Don't accept "Next week sometime" for a phone call, thats BS, ask him for a date and time you can call back or he will call you. No reason why you should wait by the phone.

If he doesn't call, then call him or show up at the Recruiting Station again, and again, and again.

Thats how it's done.

quote:

Originally posted by killmatic:
Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately, I strongly doubt I will re-enlist unless I have the opportunity to become a Ranger my first time through (4 years) so those comments don't apply to me at this point.

FloridaScoutSniper I understand what you're saying but to analogize the situation, not getting at least the opportunity to TRY to become a Ranger would be like playing JV basketball/football/etc. all through high school because the coach won't even let you try out for Varsity. It would not only make me miserable but it hurts the school having Varsity caliber players on the JV team.

I am strongly considering getting my contract renegotiated and refusing to ship without option 40. I wouldn't have even signed up for four years if I didn't think I needed to for RIP. The way I look at it, if waiting for an option 40 contract pushes my ship date back 6 months to a year, the only thing I will regret is not taking a stand the first time at MEPS. If I ship in January and don't get RIP then I will quite possibly regret my entire enlistment and most likely be unhappy in some sense.

So what exactly would I have to do to renegotiate my contract? My recruiter is completely unreliable and lazy so he'll probably avoid anything that means more paperwork for him.

Ok, after this post, I have got to pipe-in.

Don't discount those soldiers in those "JV" units. You are so blithely dismissing what is the majority of the Army. I want to serve in within USASOC as well, but as I get to meet these soldiers in the "JV" units...I realize that these soldiers do some amazing things. I may get to a USASOC unit, and then within any amount of time, the Army may need me to go to another unit that is not a USASOC unit. The needs of the Army always comes first and as a soldier we must go where we are sent. That is one of the Seven Army Values...selfless service.

You are talking so much about what you want, and how if you don't get it that the Army is not worthy of you and you would not reenlist. If this is your attitude. Don't join. It's that simple in my opinion. Yes, the 75th Ranger Regiment is very elite. Yes, they know it and act like it. They have some scary-good soldiers there. They have egos. However, they also know what Selfless Service is and know that the dedication and discipline of a good soldier means that they must do what is needed. Even if that means taking their experience to a "JV" unit. Most of them are very dedicated and would reenlist because they want to serve, not just purely because of being a Ranger.

What happens if you get injured(happened to me) and had to reclass or were no longer medically qualified to serve within the Regiment? Do you stop serving even though you can be an asset elsewhere? It seems like you would.

Congratulations on enlisting. It is good that you are in good shape, but please....evaluate what is more important...being a soldier or being a Ranger. Being a soldier needs to be at the core of all you do in the Army. Even being a soldier is not enough....then you may be in the wrong place. Things happen that can keep you for achieving your goals or even if you did...you can still end up in the "Big Army" serving on the "JV Squad."

quote:

Originally posted by PilSung:

Ok, after this post, I have got to pipe-in.

Don't discount those soldiers in those "JV" units. You are so blithely dismissing what is the majority of the Army. I want to serve in within USASOC as well, but as I get to meet these soldiers in the "JV" units...I realize that these soldiers do some amazing things. I may get to a USASOC unit, and then within any amount of time, the Army may need me to go to another unit that is not a USASOC unit. The needs of the Army always comes first and as a soldier we must go where we are sent. That is one of the Seven Army Values...selfless service.

You are talking so much about what you want, and how if you don't get it that the Army is not worthy of you and you would not reenlist. If this is your attitude. Don't join. It's that simple in my opinion. Yes, the 75th Ranger Regiment is very elite. Yes, they know it and act like it. They have some scary-good soldiers there. They have egos. However, they also know what Selfless Service is and know that the dedication and discipline of a good soldier means that they must do what is needed. Even if that means taking their experience to a "JV" unit. Most of them are very dedicated and would reenlist because they want to serve, not just purely because of being a Ranger.

What happens if you get injured(happened to me) and had to reclass or were no longer medically qualified to serve within the Regiment? Do you stop serving even though you can be an asset elsewhere? It seems like you would.

Congratulations on enlisting. It is good that you are in good shape, but please....evaluate what is more important...being a soldier or being a Ranger. Being a soldier needs to be at the core of all you do in the Army. Even being a soldier is not enough....then you may be in the wrong place. Things happen that can keep you for achieving your goals or even if you did...you can still end up in the "Big Army" serving on the "JV Squad."

OK look, your attitude is going to do a 180 degree change if you pass USASOC training and end up in that command. Yes, you too will look down on "Big Army" as not being good enough for you or as "JV". If not then you will be the first in SOCOM that didn't go through that attitude transformation.

It's like expecting a 82nd Airborne guy not to say something about being a "leg".

Anyway, not trying to argue with you here, maybe it happens in some cases. I've never seen it though when I was in service.

In a sense your right though, he shouldn't be talking like this before he passes the training. It tends to tick people off.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ErichG2,

Erich,

I understand and have seen it too. Hopefully, the fact that I have this opinion now will prevent me from looking down on the rest of the Army. There is nothing wrong with being proud and confident, but USASOC assignments are definitely not for everyone and I think that many can benefit from remembering that it takes different types of people, with different motivators and talents to do the variety of jobs and billets in the military and respect and embrace those differences.

Fortunately, I think the asymetric environment of fighting a counter-insurgency war has started to show many just how effective and intelligent ALL soldiers must be. We are seeing mechanics and supply end up in fire fights. We are seeing cooks volunteer to augment patrols.

I will work hard to make to USASOC once I am finally on active duty. If I am ever sent back to the "Big Army" from one of these assignments, I hope to take a wealth of experience that will allow me to be an asset to the unit that I am assigned.

Now...if we could also start to see the same between different combat arms branches and "POG's." There is nothing wrong with some good natured ribbing....and I most certainly never would want to see the esprit de corps or pride be taken from those who are combat arms, but I think that they should not look so down on those in support roles. They can't fight without support. Like I said....giving someone a hard time is fine, but showing outright disdain is just a no-go in my book. Given...there are some sh*t bags in all branches that give the branch a bad name or take things too far.

quote:

No offense to the Airborne guys on these forums but I'm not sure if I would be satisfied if I didn't at least get the opportunity to be a Ranger. It's just something that I have my mind and heart set on.

Once again I must stress what I've been saying...I would not be satisfied in Airborne if I did not "at least get the opportunity" or "the coach won't let (me) try out" for Rangers. If I fail RIP or decide before I get there that it's not something for me, I will be more than happy to serve as an Airborne soldier.

I have read the sticky describing the Ranger qualifications listed on this board and I can already pass all of them and I haven't even been to basic so of course it is something I feel I could obtain.

Analogizing Airborne to JV is not meant to be a disparaging comment. Their training literally is not as hard and they do not take on missions that are as difficult as the Rangers. It is a fact. That does not mean they are not good soldiers or what they do is not as important. I used to sit the bench on the JV basketball team but I ate, slept, and lived basketball until I made Varsity. I used to literally sleep with a basketball in my bed because it was something I wanted very badly.

And thanks for the input ErichG2. I am still mulling it over but I will most likely decide within the next week or so.

Luckily, I live less than a mile from my recruiting station so I'll just have to stop in every day until my recruiter gets it done.

quote:

Originally posted by killmatic:

Analogizing Airborne to JV is not meant to be a disparaging comment. Their training literally is not as hard and they do not take on missions that are as difficult as the Rangers. It is a fact. That does not mean they are not good soldiers or what they do is not as important. I used to sit the bench on the JV basketball team but I ate, slept, and lived basketball until I made Varsity. I used to literally sleep with a basketball in my bed because it was something I wanted very badly.

Yup, I agree. However, you shouldn't be writing like this until you graduate the training. OK to think it though....lol.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ErichG2,

quote:

Originally posted by PilSung:
Fortunately, I think the asymetric environment of fighting a counter-insurgency war has started to show many just how effective and intelligent ALL soldiers must be. We are seeing mechanics and supply end up in fire fights. We are seeing cooks volunteer to augment patrols.

I don't think that has changed anything, IMO.

I disagree and your living in a illusionary world if you think the Army operates as some kind of Religious Order with that kind of equality between MOS' or service branches.

There is a whole thread in the Infantry forum on this. It's called "I am just like Infantry" you can use the FIND button to read it. It's pretty good. I didn't start it, other GWOT veterans did. Primarily Infantry branch participating in it.

Sorry, it's what they train at Ft. Benning, it's how I was trained and others as well. You can make your arguments but I don't think they will get anywhere.

Likewise, I think someone with a Ranger or Special Forces tab has earned the right to talk down to others if they feel the need to do so. Fine with me and I usually don't challenge that unless the other guy is exaggerating.

I did have run-ins with the 82nds on a few occasions but only when the I'm not a leg deal is taken to an extreme. Most cases I don't challenge it. They earned the right to say that.

quote:

Originally posted by ErichG2:

quote:

Originally posted by PilSung:
Fortunately, I think the asymetric environment of fighting a counter-insurgency war has started to show many just how effective and intelligent ALL soldiers must be. We are seeing mechanics and supply end up in fire fights. We are seeing cooks volunteer to augment patrols.

I don't think that has changed anything, IMO.

I disagree and your living in a illusionary world if you think the Army operates as some kind of Religious Order with that kind of equality between MOS' or service branches.

There is a whole thread in the Infantry forum on this. It's called "I am just like Infantry" you can use the FIND button to read it. It's pretty good. I didn't start it, other GWOT veterans did. Primarily Infantry branch participating in it.

Sorry, it's what they train at Ft. Benning, it's how I was trained and others as well. You can make your arguments but I don't think they will get anywhere.

Likewise, I think someone with a Ranger or Special Forces tab has earned the right to talk down to others if they feel the need to do so. Fine with me and I usually don't challenge that unless the other guy is exaggerating.

I did have run-ins with the 82nds on a few occasions but only when the I'm not a leg deal is taken to an extreme. Most cases I don't challenge it. They earned the right to say that.

I see what your saying and agree that is how it is and that there is some earned right to act differently based upon unit, training, and what you have achieved.

I also do not think that it is an equality issue between MOS's. They are not equal in my eyes, but I also do not see a point in setting one particular branch or group on tremendously high pedestal, when compared to others who are serving nobly. Reverence and diffrentiation is one thing, but discounting the other groups' service is another, which is what many are doing.

I may not be communicating my point effectively and I am sorry. I am in no means stating that every soldier has the same capacity and battle effectiveness when it comes to combat. Nor would I state that the caste system of eliteness is something that should be removed from the culture of the military. I just personally believe that it often goes too far, and that many soldiers do not understand or respect what support does...or what mechanized Infantry can bring to the battle...or what Artillery can do to save a pinned down unit, etc. Then again, there are often those who see the Rangers and prima donnas, or the Special Forces as snake eaters, or the Infantry as a bunch of goons...and they are equally wrong.

I am of a differing mindset generally speaking. I am in no way implying that the military needs to be a utopia of equality. We all know that is an impossibility and would degrade mission capabilities. I just think that someone should be proud to be a soldier, and proud to serve...even if that means that they are stuck in support as a Reservist(like me). I got hurt, and had to do something else for the Army, but was not willing to be discharged. I like serving too much to give it up...even if it means that I am doing something different than what I set out to do. I also knew that I would heal and that my time would come eventually. Even if it doesn't...I am proud to serve and will continue to do so at the highest level I can. I revere Special Forces soldiers and I am digging deep to try to get myself there through these trying times. I would be proud to serve in support of SF or other SMU's though if that were I were permitted, but I am not going to quit or give up in my first enlistment if I don't get there. I am considerably older than the OP, and my window to do SF or something similar is getting smaller ever single day. I accept that it may never happen. I am not going to quit serving and ETS due to it though. There are too many other great opportunities in the Army that I do not believe should be so blithely dismissed.

^^^ OK, we are not that far apart, I think similarly. 20 years out it does not matter that much to me.

I have read a few on here choose ETS because they did not want to be medically reclassed or because another MOS did not interest them. I think thats fine and when they state the other MOS' do not appeal to them or make a pejoritive statement....thats OK, they are ETS'ing. Right thing to do in their specific case rather then stick around and be miserable or make others miserable.

I really did not like the people that kept re-enlisting and riding the system because they were otherwise lazy. If your going to stay in, then advance your career and go after the Army Schools or persue college. If not then ETS. So I am a firm believer in Move Up or Move Out. I was happy to see that implemented.

BTW, Soldier of the year for the 101st. Persuing a degree in Electrical Engineering as a SP4? Thats tougher then the college degree I have currently that I obtained after ETS. He isn't Infantry and I don't think he is combat arms either. Still for a SP4 to attempt that level of college degree while in the Army with all the deployments has my respect (not that he wants or needs it...lol).

quote:

I've seen a lot of new soldiers get ticked off because the Army doesn't send them off to be Airborne/Ranger/Special Forces right away.

Seriously, if you don't have it in your contract you are gong to have to gamble and search it out on your own. With the exception of Airborne School, these things are regularly available in infantry units - on a competitive basis.

Heck, in the 82nd, Ranger School used to be an unofficial requirement to make E5. SF recruiters regularly visit infantry units for SFAS. Failing that, you can always reenlist for Ranger/SF/Airborne.