quote:

Across the street from the Alamo in a few rooms crowded with photographs, mementos and T-shirts, America's longest war continues to sputter its confusing legacy.

The museum was filled with what anyone would expect to find in a museum and many things that were quite unexpected. Combat Veterans who served as tour guides. Going through the facility with a Marine would provide a very different experience than coming back and moving through the displays and rooms with an Air Force Vet, It allowed people to return and see something new, or the same thing from varying viewpoints.

The museum's "Gift Shop" called the Veteran's PX was owned and operated by Richard Mosher, a man of great honor and dignity. He several in Vietnam and lost most of the men in his company. He paid 10% of his sales of the museum as rent. I never checked to see if it was more or less than the rental for the space he used. Would that really matter?

Wedged between a wax museum and a video game parlor, the Vietnam War Museum beckons tourists with a sign that reads: ''The Vietnam story through the eyes and hearts of those who were there.''

Wedged: The museum consisted on more than 4000 square feet exhibits that included a theater.

But now, the man who wrote the sign and created the museum confesses that he was never in Vietnam, although he insists his heart was in the right place when he said he was in soliciting support for the museum.

My heart perhaps. Maybe not my head. I spend a lot of time still thinking about this subject. Could it have been done some other way? Most of those who were with me, think not. I wonder.

''I lied,'' said the museum founder, Gaylord O. Stevens. ''I was a liar; that's the simplest way to put it. But, was I right or wrong? That gets more complicated.''

I believe this quote is wrong. I don't recall. More likely I said, "I lied, that's the simplest way to lut it...."

It does get complicated. Wouldn't it be nice if lies were always just wrong. I used to think so, and would like to think so again. Who among us doesn't think there is ever a reason to lie? I hope I can get there some day.

Mr. Stevens began lying more than two years ago at about the same time he decided to set up the museum. When he sought money or when he asked Vietnam veterans to donate their souvenirs for the exhibits, he proclaimed that he had fought there as a member of the Navy's elite commando unit, the Seals, in 1968 and 1969.

Is this wrong or a malicious lie? No veteran has ever been asked for ANYTHING. Time, money or "souvenirs" The last of these a dispicable choice of words when refering to something that was aquired while risking life and limb for this country. They are war relecs and our WRITTEN Policy was NEVER ask anyone for ANYTHING. The things that came into the museum came freely, and when they left, the left with the veteran who originally provided them (or their family).

TIME: the Veterans that volunteered at the Museum were required to show income. The Museum was not after their income, but rather wanted to make certain that they were not neglecting their own needs while they served as a trou guide or other volunteer.


Every Volunteer and Employee had to sign the Policy Guidlines. They were quite thorough, still, occassionally, we would sit about discussing the possibility of changing them from time to time.

Some were:

Never state personal opinions when acting for the museum. Give information as evenly and truthfully as you can. Allow each visitor to consider the information and come to their own conclusions.

Never accept cash on behalf of the museum when you are not wearing something that clearly indicates that is what you are doing at that time. (every individual wore a shirt clearly showing they were working on behalf of the museum) Often people worked on the streets in uniforms or such things and claimed to be working for the museum. I had no control over them and suspect they had never been inside the museum.

Never Polical Sides: Democrats, Republicans and members of every political party are ALL Americans. The strength of this nation rests in our ability to embrace them all. The nation was founded, not on brotherly love, but tolerance.

No One in this Organization is more important than another. Each is a link in the chain we are trying to build - from this generation to the next. (This was the reason for using first names only.)

The Museum is NOT a Veteran's Organization. While there are points where museums and veterans organizations touch, they re clearly serve different purposes. Veterans Organizations operate to make certain veterans get what they fairly and justly deserve for services rendered. Museums operate to make certain this and future generations understand what actions were taken on behalf of this nation by veterans.

WOW Sorry - rambled on far too long.... a problem when you go without a plan.

On the New York Times. The reporter never walked through the museum. His opinions, regardless of his personal standing with the media, are ignorant of even the most basic information. He spoke briefly with one of our staff and then went into my office. He left my office and went directly out of the museum. Had he gone through, he would have had the pleasure of speaking to a Medal of Honor Recipient and a Decorated State Senator; (the man changing out light bulbs that day.)

The photographs were taken by a member of the San Antonio Express News. He had already left the city.

You keep dodging the question of this thread. You lied about being a Navy SEAL. Instead, you want to validate your actions by saying the museum was a success. In your mind, claiming SEAL status is merely an oversight for the end picture which was the museum. That's not the issue for this thread, i.e., posers.

Funny thing, several people including myself have repeatedly asked you why you lied about being a Navy SEAL and you try and turn the focus to the museum. There's enough quotes from you on the internet that you have said "I lied". However, when you come onto this forum trying to persuade the readers, overlooking the fact you were a SEAL poser, we want to know why you lied. So again I ask you:

Why did you lie about being a Vietnam era Navy SEAL?

I agree... this is not about a museum, it is about you as a person.

Wray...

quote:

I wonder, what the members of this discussion group feel would be the appropriate punishment for someone who decides to purposefully tell a lie

I for one would like to see your military record expunged. Your Honorable Discharge (if you received one) downgraded to a Dishonorable Discharge, and a forfiture of all Veterans benefits.

You keep saying that your lie was justified because "your heart was in the right place". But how am I to even believe that statement, as you have no integrity to begin with? How many people gave donations and support because they thought you were a SEAL? Do you think you would have received the same support if they knew you were SN Gooblatz at Station Vacation?

Your lies, and your partner's lies coerced people into donating and supporting. As I said, regardless of the outcome, even if your intentions were, as you say, honorable, your means were not, and deserve repercussions.

I don't accept that any of MY 4.0 sailors would ever consider a scam of this magnitude. Your actions were disgusting, and are not in keeping with the highest traditions and standards, or Core Values of The United States Coast Guard.

quote:

Your Honorable Discharge (if you received one) downgraded to a Dishonorable Discharge,

That is a little to far there. If you know the 5 possible types of disharges, and how they are handed out, I doubt you would really mean that. DDs are reserved for traitors, serial rapists, etc in reality. Bad Conduct discharges are given out even to pedeophiles. A lack of honor after discharge is just not sufficient reason to put this joker below the level of pedeophiles.

excerpted from onceanft

quote:

I for one would like to see your military record expunged. Your Honorable Discharge (if you received one) downgraded to a Dishonorable Discharge, and a forfiture of all Veterans benefits.

Chief: That's an interesting suggestion. I wonder if you were suggesting that your suggestion only apply to me or would you extend it to ALL who are caught telling a lie, regardless of reason?

Your suggestion that I used the lie to get donations is pure ignorance. It shows you no nothing about the museum - or me. I never asked for donations, nor did I recieve a salary or any re-embursements for any of the monies I took from my own expenses. I did claim some for tax deductions. Perhaps you think that unfair, as well?

We all should be required to do what we feel is in the best interests of this nation. I took my oath to defend and protect this nation seriously when I enlisted, and still consider it my duty: as a citizen. I may hve made a terrible judgement call then, but I love this country and have not allowed the error to cause me to stop doing what I feel is right.

I'm sorry you and others who weren't aware of how the museum was funded are hurt. It went to work that day... the day the placed my picture, in color, on the front page with headlines saying I had lied. That day when my lie took PAGE ONE and the San Francisco Earthquake took PAGE TWO.

I'm sorry YOUR 4.0 Sailors wouldn't do whatever they thought was right. Perhaps you might consider re-training them. How you train them not to make bad decisions might be more difficult, but instilling in them, a sense of pride for this nation that rises above all else isn't a bad thing. That IS in keeping with the highest traditions and standards of the United States Coast Guard.

You may say I lied. If you say I did it for personal gain, you are mistaken(and others have been), or you (and other have) decided to lie for their own personal reasons - ussually for personal gain.

"If those are the people I must bow to, you have a long wait ahead of you. I have always reserved my appologies for those veterans I believe I wronged. I will not bump into someone along the sidewalk and then appolgize to everyone who walks down the street."

That was my response at that time. I am currently working on a different response... one that took me far too long to reach.

I have always allowed others to defend me, I do on this board because it seems right to me to do so. I understand why some might feel this is the wrong thing to do. Some of my dearest friends think it's obsurd to give it my time, but Coasties will always have a place in my heart - even if there are some who will never be able to share a place in their heart for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Wray:
I agree... this is not about a museum, it is about you as a person.

Wray...

I did answer the question about why! Perhaps you missed it. I will not keep re-typing the same answer.

You thought the story was about me, the person. I certainly agreed with you, even in the face of serious arguments made my those combat veterans who stood, and stand, so strongly at my side.

Their argument was it wasn't about me at all. This was just another was for the media to attack Vietnam Veterans. They felt it was the goal of the media to shut the museum down and have it fade away. The media played a small role in the Vietnam story. One they may not all be happy with. I didn't believe they were right. Not for a long time.

Then I was walking up the steps one day as the cameras rolled. They were screaming questions and flashing lights as I made my way toward my hammer and nails. A group of decorated combat veterans I had never seen reached the top of the steps behind us and called to the reports and said they had come in repsonse to the stories they had been reading. They told the press they and the nurse with them had traveled hundreds of miles to see me in person.

The cameras turned toward them instantly. To their surprise, and mine, they stated clearly they had come to support me in what they thought (correctly) was my hour of need. The cameras and tapes went off and the pencils stopped.

As the press decended the steps, they turned and said, "This is about us - not you. You wanted to be here, and now you will stay - but never alone, because now we are here with you."

I remain stunned - humbled.

Several days after that a very large man came into the museum where I was building a display. He grabbed me up instantly and began carrying me to the second floor and down the winding jungle trail to the very back of the museum. I was thinking, "Sooner or later this had to happen."

He slammed me against the concrete wall, "NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!" he screamed.

I couldn't help but think, "How would I do it again? My lie had pretty much covered the media for weeks."

"Never Again!" he screamed as he twisted my shirt about my throat.

I don't know even what made me ask, "Never what?"

"I watched you on the news last night," he explained as he release the grip on my shirt and throat. "I saw you looking down. You were looking down as you spoke."

I nodded. "Yes, I guess I was ashamed of what I had done. It's hard to be called the biggest liar in the country and not look down."

"This isn't YOUR museum. It's OURS!" He began taking off his shirt. I was confused and worried, no knowing what was going to happen next. "This is OUR museum. This place speaks for all of us who can't find what it takes to speak for ourselves. Guys like me." He turned his back as he said, "Look." His back was covered with gastly scars. "Your lie has brought you here - and THIS is your Vietnam, but it's OUR museum. Never look down when you're talking about this place!" He paused for a long time as we looked at each other. Perhaps each waiting for the other to speak.

"Never look down!" he said again and walked away. I didn't know what to say. Still don't.

Perhaps in some ways the museum does exist for men and women like that. I am honored when they stand beside me, but they have heard me say this many many times. "The museum was not really built FOR them, it was built to prevent the next generation from becoming them." In that mission, the museum has failed, and failed badly.

I went back and read my post. I regret the errors in type. I will try and edit my posts before I hit the post button, in the future. It is also a bit hard to follow, the errors in this vien are because I rushed to have it posted before I headed off to work.

How many times do you have to be asked: why did you lie about being a SEAL in Vietnam? That's it. Plain and simple. Please keep your hailed museum efforts out of your answer please.

You said you answered why but really you didn't. What you DID say was the media got it all wrong. If that is the case, why have you posted several times that you are ashamed of your actions?

What exactly are you ashamed of?

Why would anyone believe the above stories? You have been labeled a liar by pretending to be someone you never were, telling all your little stories of "O" poor me is rediculous.
EM1

To GaylordStevens:

Question: Did you represent yourself as a US Navy SEAL?

Answer; chose one:

yes

no

not sure

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by CgShipmate:
How many times do you have to be asked: why did you lie about being a SEAL in Vietnam? That's it. Plain and simple. Please keep your hailed museum efforts out of your answer please.

You said you answered why but really you didn't. What you DID say was the media got it all wrong. If that is the case, why have you posted several times that you are ashamed of your actions?

What exactly are you ashamed of?

I regret lying about being a Navy SEAL. It was wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by CGSCOTTY:
Why would anyone believe the above stories? You have been labeled a liar by pretending to be someone you never were, telling all your little stories of "O" poor me is rediculous.
EM1

If you read my stories as "O" poor little me, you read them wrong.

What I did was wrong! I do not regret having any of the friends I currently have. It would be silly of me not to be quite proud to be standing in such a generous and heroic group. Perhaps one day, you might be lucky enough to have people who will stand by you when you fail. It is both humbling and empowering at the same time. No way to truely explain it.

quote:

I regret lying about being a Navy SEAL. It was wrong.

GS;
I can not speak for others, but that basic straight forward statement there suits me. You are a shipmate who although you screwed the pooch BIGTIME, have now clearly and simply admitted to it and regret it. The other good that you have done, before and after the service are admirable. To keep that respect from me, please NEVER again even hint that 'the ends justify the means.'

I would ask our other shipmates here to consider following that.

EDIT: Damn it! Before I could even hit POST NOW, you kind of went down that road. No excuses, no mitigation, no extenuation.

quote:

Originally posted by Nobodyaskedmebut:
To GaylordStevens:

Question: Did you represent yourself as a US Navy SEAL?

Answer; chose one:

yes

no

not sure

Thanks.

the answer is: yes

quote:

Originally posted by Mightyz90_93:

quote:

I regret lying about being a Navy SEAL. It was wrong.

GS;
I can not speak for others, but that basic straight forward statement there suits me. You are a shipmate who although you screwed the pooch BIGTIME, have now clearly and simply admitted to it and regret it. The other good that you have done, before and after the service are admirable. To keep that respect from me, please NEVER again even hint that 'the ends justify the means.'

I would ask our other shipmates here to consider following that.

Senior: I thank you very much for your comment. I said earlier that my opinion about my actions had changed, but neglected to be specific about why.

Lying is just wrong. President Wilson included that concept to covert operations. Through the course of time, I, like so many lost sight of that.

The following is only commentary about this subject in general:

When our leadership feels righteious about lying to the American people, must less people across the world in general, it's easy to follow that lead. They are wrong in doing so.

We do have problems in this country. There are NO problems or challenges that cannot be solved by AMERICAN solutions. We have embraced some pretty un-American activities for some very lofty reasons. They are just wrong. Lying, regardless of the reason, or the outcome, cannot be considered honorable - or even very smart. What you loose is some much more than what you gain -- even if you don't get caught.

One additional note: There are many who have suggested that saying you are a Navy SEAL is, somehow, embellishing one's record. Perhaps it is changing it, but I consider the work done by the Coast Guard to be every bit as challenging and as "great" as any taken on and/or accomplished by Navy SEALs.

These two engage in quite different kinds of activities, but equally important, and require an equal amount of dedication, courage, intelligence, skill and tenacity. Don't sell the duties of the Coast Guard short. I never did: and don't.

quote:

Originally posted by Ex_CG_GM:
You still have not explained why you felt you had to pretend to be a Navy SEAL as opposed to a member of the CG.

Pretty simple question.....why do you refuse to answer it?


Glad to see you here. I know nothing of machines. To say I was a machinistmate would be silly. I not good with wires so the idea of being an ET was out. I had experience with sky and scuba diving. I had four fifty miles swims with the Red Cross, was First Aid, CPR and WSI certified. This is no way suggests, no do the SEALs I know, think I believe it qualified me as a SEAL. It did give me something that (however remotely) was not absolutely beyond my capabilities, if not training.

I realize that this is a stupid answer, but it is what I believed at the time.

Are you going to ask, "Do you still think so?"

No, but I am still going to ask WHY you felt the need to represent yourself as anything other then what you were, a former member of the Coast Guard.

I think many here are still trying to understand what motivated you.

quote:

Originally posted by gaylordstevens:
One additional note: There are many who have suggested that saying you are a Navy SEAL is, somehow, embellishing one's record. Perhaps it is changing it, but I consider the work done by the Coast Guard to be every bit as challenging and as "great" as any taken on and/or accomplished by Navy SEALs.

These two engage in quite different kinds of activities, but equally important, and require an equal amount of dedication, courage, intelligence, skill and tenacity. Don't sell the duties of the Coast Guard short. I never did: and don't.

This comment makes no sense in view your past activities. I know what the Coast Guard does, as do most of the readers in here. But John Q out there doesn't. Many think we are strictly reservist (not a slam at reserves there); other's think it's a state run thing like the National Guard; I've even been told that active duty and auxiliary are one and the same.

If you felt during your start up days at the musuem that being a Coastie and a Seal were on equal footing, why the lie? You said something along the lines that you knew about sky and scuba diving, so this qualified to talk like a Seal. Did you think that things would be easier if you lied about your service?

quote:

Originally posted by gaylordstevens:
Senior: I thank you very much for your comment. I said earlier that my opinion about my actions had changed, but neglected to be specific about why.

I'm hoping this was a typo on your part. MightyZ is a Master Chief. If he's half the Master Chief as he was a PO1, he's probably the best MC the Coast Guard has. If he's twice the Master Chief as he was poker player though, then the Coast Guard is in trouble.