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New Member |
Without saying too much I heard a rumor today on the West Coast that the Gallatin is in a bad way I looked on the internet and found two to three bids on an "Emergency dockside" to a lot of deck refurbishings, and they want to extend the life of these cutters? I love the 378 but they are getting aged, I mean I know a lot of them that aren't in good shape at all, I know this is an old topic but it keeps popping into the world.
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CG Forums Moderator |
They were in drydock in 2003 (spring), so it could be about that time again.
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CG Forums Moderator Aude et Effice!  |
FWIW, there has been an increase in "emergency" drydocks since 2000 or so. The good news is that given the age of the legacy assets, the MLCs are anticipating this when issues come up.
The worse thing from a staff planning perspective isn't so much the money for an emergency drydock, but the shifting of the Major Cutter Schedule to accomodate it. |
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Experienced Member |
I just looked at the solicitation on FedBizOpps, a public record. This is dockside repairs, not emergency drydock. Their emergency drydocking was two years ago. This looks like replacing deckplates, doors and hatches and by certain wording of the solicitation looks like a relatively small job.
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There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch |
Have they started building the 3rd NSC yet?
And is there any progress on the other, smaller class? I think it was the Offshore Patrol Cutter or some such name. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ex_CG_GM, |
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Highly Experienced Member |
This is what happens when assets are allowed to dwindle to such low levels. The 378s were part of a group that included 327s, 311s and 255s. All but the 378s became history and even considering the loss of the Ocean Station Mission, they were never adequate for all the jobs they were asked to do.
The new NSC may be overkill. I keep asking myself if it would have been better to build a few more cutters smaller than the NSCs but still WHEC capable. |
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There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch |
I think that is basically what the second one I mentioned might do. I think it is OK for me to post this link to the specs on it: Offshore Patrol Cutter In reading my decrepit Jane's Fighting Ships, 1970-1971 edition, the CG had about 30 WHEC's back then. Now they have 12.......  |
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Member |
Please excuse my being a little off topic here. I see the same problem with the proposed OPC's that I am seeing in the NSC's. You cannot get from the bow to the stern without going through the interior spaces. I am glad the new WLM's and WLB's don't follow what is in my estimation not a good design. Hard to tell from the OPC graphic but it looks as though there is a catwalk forward of the bridge unlike the NSC's which is another thing I don't like about them.
IMO: If you are forward of the bridge on the foredeck and your shipmate falls overboard how are you supposed to keep an eye on him/her if you have to go into the interior spaces to get to the fantail? I know from the MOD's we did on the MESQUITE we usually threw our dummy off the foscle or buoy deck and then you would have to run to the fantail yelling "man overboard" all the while keeping an eye on the dummy. In colder climates like the Great Lakes or the Bering Sea those seconds lost going interior could cost your shipmate their life. Not a very practical or safe design for the crews that will have to man these new cutters. |
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CG Forums Moderator |
That's a pretty good point. I had never thought of that particular scenario before, but it makes a lot of sense. In cold water, time isn't a luxury, so the more time wasted trying to find your shipmate could be very costly.
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There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch |
Not to mention any situation that might require passing a line from the bow aft, or from aft of the aircastle forward.
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Member |
Great point Ron!!! I guess that's what you get when you try and reinvent the wheel instead of using off the shelf proven designs!
Ron Wilkens for Senior USCG Naval Architect!!  -Jeff |
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It will feel good after it stops hurting. |
270's have been doing it that way from the 80's.
-Chris |
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Member |
That's true Chris they have. But that doesn't mean they are a good design. Just means they've been fortunate so far. Consider this too, how many of the Bear Class WMEC's are in the Bering Sea, the Arctic or the Great Lakes where you have water temperature extremes where seconds can mean the difference between life or death? |
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Member |
Didn't they bring the Harriet Lane over for an ALPAT to evaluate them. I heard it was one heck of an experience.
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Member |
Harriet Lane made a Alaska Patrol in 96 in an effort to see if a 270 could replace a 378 in the Bearing. The 270 was deemed to be "less capable" They generally had a bad time of it.
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Member |
There are many reasons for missing ports/windows. Glass is a major weakness in preventing atmospheric ingress. Interior spaces are under positive pressure. Broken glass threatens crew safety. On a financial and ship building side, cutting holes and installing framing and glass is time consuming, expensive, and may interfere with plate design. The view just isn't worth it.
Small crews, mission operations, and money have made accessible exterior spaces low priority and unneccessary. Reduced billeting puts heavy demands on crew's time. Eliminating life lines, exterior decks, ladders, and all other trappings of living outside eases crew work and saves money. During the 80's damage control stations were located near the bow and stern as opposed to amidships. The logic was, as discovered during the Falkland Wars, that major damage would occur at center mass or dead on CIC. The crew would deal with the damage by approaching it from the outside in instead of inside out. This approach makes exterior access around the deckhouse/superstructure unneccesary. My two cents worth. |
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CG Forums Moderator |
Good point Mark. And till you've spent some time in the GL's, you can't say you've been in some of the worst conditions for a vsl. Wave's of 30 foot vs confused seas of 25ft is something that you have to experience to understand. 210 in a hurricane vs 140 in a storm. Been there. I'll take the 210 in the hurricane. JMO... Having talked to some of the Westwind sailors who traveled both during deployments, they always seem to point out it's not the same in the 2 places. The GL's always seem to get the thumbs up for a crappy ride. |
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Member |
TC ... Having been in the north Atlantic in a January gale on an ocean liner and having been in a January gale in a 180 on lakes Superior and Michigan I can tell you the GL's are worse IMO. The deck force had to go out on deck during the gale and break ice off the superstructure to keep the ship from capsizing. How are you going to break ice off of the superstructure if there are no exterior passageways from stem to stern for you to stand on?
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Member |
Richard ... I'm not sure what the statement above has to do with having clear exterior passage from stem to stern on a ship. I would agree that these new designs that eliminate exterior passage would result in less maintenance for the crew but not significantly. ie: The 225s and the 175s have significantly reduced crew sizes over what we had on 180s, yet they still have clear passage from stem to stern. The reduction in crew sizes resulted from technological advances, not from eliminating exterior passageways.
If "major damage occurs at center mass or dead on CIC" as you say and approaching the damage "from outside in instead of inside out" just further reinforces the need for having exterior passageways from stem to stern. |
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