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Military.com Forums Coast Guard Discussions Point-CounterPoint Retirees, Coat Tails & Images|
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Member |
The recent FEMA press conference or staged production presented an interesting dilemna. Why is everyone calling the guy in the beige suit Admiral Harvey Johnson? He is retired; he should no longer be affiliated with the Coast Guard. Why wasnt he referred to as, Mr. Harvey Johnson deputy director of FEMA?
When we retire, should we avoid using our previous military grades and rank in our civilian employment? It seems to me the USCG is getting a bit of a black-eye by FEMA for the action of one of its former members. Now this seems a shame because Katrina land, the USCG word carries a lot of clout, thanks to Adm Thad Allen and his crew. Your thoughts? BMC (ret) |
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Boats,
I agree; using one's military title associated with a civilian position should not happen. I suspect FEMA hired him because he is a retired Coast Guard Admiral and introduces him as "Admiral Harvey Johnson" to add some creditability to their organization follwing the debacles of their management. Back in the late 80s MOAA (TROA back then - The Retired Officer's Association) published an article entitled: [u]THE COLONEL IS GREEN[/u] that addressed the issue. It pretty much recommended leaving behind the title and trappings of rank i.e. the oversized desk name plate with rank insignia, name, military title (like Brigade Commander, Commanding Officer) or dedicating one entire wall of your office as a wall of fame with certificates and citations; but it did stress to bring with you to the new job you leadership and management skills and your experience - and use it without flaunting it. In other words - what you were then you aren't now...you may have commanded 1,000 people in combat or been a District Commander - but now you work for me! I belong to MOAA perhaps I can get a copy of the article and post it (or a link); I think it is really relevant in today's society as it was (gosh it has been) 20 years ago. |
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This issue has been around since I entered the USCG in 1957. Most government and civilian top line companies like to have a retired flag or general officer on their masthead. And this includes foundations and nonprofit organizations. The USCG flag officers are no different than the other services, and, I guess, who can blame them? Nice way to add on to their retirement pay.
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de minimis non curat lex |
I agree with Dr. Noble. It does not seem inappropriate to me to refer to a retired Flag Officer as General or Admiral, unless the officer or the officer's new organization prefers otherwise. For O-6s and below, probably best to leave the military title off altogether. In the nearly eight years I have worked in my current position, only twice has someone called and asked to speak to me by my retired military rank. Both times the person who answered the phone told the caller that there was no one here by that name!
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Basic Training |
On the lighter side of things, I work with a Navy vet (in my civilian job) who is quite proud of his service history.
Jokingly, I address him as Petty Officer or Shipmate. We also have a great time using terms like port/stbd, heads, decks, etc... Occasionally we need a SITREP, CASREP, or OPSUM. From time to time, we discuss holding quarters. That being said, in my opinion, when used for political gain or press-worthiness, I find it inappropriate to use a retiree's rank/rate. |
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It's a form of respect to recognize a certain level of achievement for O-5 and above. It's no different than calling a politician by their former title. I've worked with a couple of retired Admirals and many Captains. I have no reservations on calling them "Admiral", "Captain", or "Sir". Will I run errands for them or make them coffee? No, but the ones I know are classy enough not to ask.
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I have a story similar to JerseyBM2. When I retired from the USCG, I started working part time at a hobby shop. The shop owner is Ray, who was a SK in the USCG. One of the other employees is Ron, who was a MK. One day, the three of us were working together, and in the same counter area. A 4th employee was working that day, and said he didn't want to come behind the counter because we had a "two-tier private" club - all of our first names started with R, and we were Coasties.
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11/14/08: Member suspended 30 days for obscene posts. |
The military hierarchy is alive and well here ; of course the wife is "Captain" or "skipper" to her face ... "old lady" behind her back.
I am the lowly "swabbie", "numbnutz" or "boot" ... depending on her mood. |
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"going to talk and cause suspicion..." |
I agree, once a Capt always a Capt as far as I am concerned goes for Generals,Judges, Docs and Admirals,Colonels as well as Chiefs. |
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Member |
I too have a similar story as Jersey. I work in a small office, there are only two veterans here, myself and and my partner who I just hired after separating from the USAF as a Capt(O3). Yesterday(veterans day) we drove everyone else(around 15 or so) around here batty by referring to each other as Cap'n and Petty Officer and used every bit of USCG and USAF nomenclature we could, it was like our own secret club! It drove people crazy but the two of us had a BLAST! I guess thats one of the unwritten benefits of being a veteran...... getting to annoy the sheot out of your co-workers! -Jeff |
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Admiral Smith, was raised with my dad. Dad called him Willey. I will always call him Admiral.
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When I'm with my mates at the CPO Club in Cape May, and he is not there, we refer to PA Retiree as Casey. When he is with us, purely out of respect for him, we call him Captain.
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Years ago when my husband and I went to Cat Head Light, the state was taking it over as a memorial site. Adm Willard Smith came walking by (he'd been raised on No Manitou Island and still didn't forget about the area.) A young Coastguardsman said to Floyd "who does that old SOB think he is?" Floyd said "until about 3 months ago he thought he was commandant of the Coast Guard" The young man broke out in a sweat and said 'I didn't even salute' Floyd laughed til he cried
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Member |
I sort of feel like, FEMA was looking to gain credibility through association. They bring in a former worker with one of the most credible agencies of the federal government(USCG) and then set up a false news release.
I hope that the Admiral in this case, that was allegedly unaware of this fiasco takes direct action to protect his integrity and the integrity of the United States Coast Guard. Chertoff inferred that this was a stupid act on the part of these persons that did it. I hope the Admiral have the opportunity to step up and present his side of what happened and mitigate any bad reflection upon him and or our service. BMC (ret) |
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Basic Training |
Adressing a CIVILIAN with their former military rank to me is ridiculous. I work for a retired CWO and I never once referred to him as Chief Warrant Officer. I call him Sir or refer to him as Mister out of respect for his age, not his prior military rank. Matter of fact I call all retirees Sir, from Chiefs to Captains.
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LB,
I agree with your post. I think the people that still call me chief, do it as a term of endearment. I notice when I displease the judges that call me chief, they promote me to warant and call me "Mr. Murry" emphasis added on Mister. However, in the instant thread, it appears that they kept using Admiral Johnson's rank to seek to bolster credibility. Unfortunately, now we have had another FEMA fiasco as to veracity and they are holding the Admiral out to dry. I guess I dont think they should be able to continues to call them Admiral after they retire and accept a different position. BMC (ret) |
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Member |
lawnboys, there is nothing ridiculous about it. Using title to address a retiree is in fact directly addressed in the 2007 Retired Military Almanac, page 76, and I quote;
"Retirees should be addressed, in writing and orally, by their retired military rank. When retirees visit medical, exchange, commissary, MWR, personnel, finance, transportation, or similar facilities and organizations they should be addressed by their retired grade... Retired personnel may use their military titles subject to restrictions and the exercise of good judgement... However, it also states that "retirees who are employed as civil service employees should not use their retired grade in the performance of their civilian duties." |
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Member |
Badge,
This is more close to the issue I was raising. I am nt sure that it is a sound practice to use your retired military title when employed with a civilian agency. As in the instant case, I think FEMA was hiring credibility along with the good Admiral's title; yet when we have a staged press conference, they want to blame it on the Admiral. I think he should have been Mr. Johnson from the onset rather than Admiral to ensure the actions of FEMA have no reflection on our service. |
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Military.com Forums Coast Guard Discussions Point-CounterPoint Retirees, Coat Tails & Images
