EM1

Could we get some twidgets to go up and fix the Cape May Gaydar?

But Capt. Stosz will get right ... she was trained extremely well as an ensign by an outstanding CPO ...

bet she still remembers the time when a drunk, lovesick FN showed up in her room on the floor holding her hand (no, not me!)

quote:

Originally posted by arctictraveler:
Bruce,
Think I have been hiding in an admin job? Doing what is just enough? You obviously don't know me, you would have had to join the CG in 1974 to even begin to know me. Is nine years of active duty enough for you? How about 34+ total years of service? How about that I am in my second tour at a PSU to lead the Boats Division? A position which requires me to not only lead a large group of people, including many new folks out of boot camp and A school, but also requires me to maintain certifications mostly held by people half my age. Or that maybe as a result I will be away from my family for an extended period? Or maybe that while I am not spending an inordinate amount of time focusing on my duties, I have spent an even larger amount of time in business. Try pouring 80+ hours a week into a job, then giving up 25% of you weekends to serve. Only to have too many people criticize you for who you are? Do you think Reservists sit at home and clip coupons off of Bearer Bonds between Reserve weekends? Sorry if my remarks touched too close to home, but your comments insulted myself as a Reservist. You imply that because I am not on active duty, I can't fix a problem. The most important people in the CG are our very newest, they have the longest time left to serve. They deserve only the very best. My original post may have been a little strongly worded, but I stand by its intention. Sorry if it struck a nerve, you obviously struck one of mine.

Well first off my bio is on line at the Training Center's web site. So we can move beyond that pissing contest which has no bearing on this thread... I only add that since you brought it up as the basis for your arguement.

My offer to get you some AD time wasn't a shot at the reserve side of the service, just an offer to ensure you get paid for your expertise and time in coming down here. Where you did touch a nerve was the shot across the bow from your position on high. You make a lot of insinuations about life here in sunny south Jersey and I was just wondering where you gain your knowledge base from?

A visit there would be nice, have a good friend stationed there. I regret I did not do the Mentor program while I was on Active Duty. Sorry for the "shot", people preying on young Coasties is something that gets the blood boiling very quickly. It sickens me. We just got a few new folks from Cape May. I think we both can agree it should all be about getting them ready to do what it is they will be doing for allot longer than I will be around.

I have been a member of these boards for some time, have commented on items and issues that were very near and dear to me, even thrown in a barb or two at some fellow friends who KNEW they were that..friendly lil barbs. I read this thread with interest because I know a CC who worked for me during the 123' debacle, who worked his *** off to get the CC job because he loved mentoring new Coasties, and was the best engineer any ship or sailor could ask for who epitomizes the Coast Guard with his presence and appearance alone. While I feel terribly sorry for the individuals involved in this sexual assault case, first I'm GLAD it was not the man I know.

I've seen people who comment on various issues of these boards, either as mods, regular participants, or as Bob Ueker-like participants throwing insults from the cheap seats, who either offer great value and insite with their unbiased, collective wisdom, or just enjoy spouting off because it will draw reactions and flame others, and before you know it the issue has digressed into something completely different. Pretty much like this topic. I watched this particular thread go immediately from bringing up the issue of a sexual assault case to attacking a very near and dear friend of mine, and questioning his credibility as a reservist and active duty member. I've seen people with a beef against the Coast Guard try and slam persons and the organization because of a bad experience they had years ago, and I've seen others totally own up to their parts, accept their responsibility, move on, and still show love and admiration to an organization that gave them opportunities they might not have had elsewhere.

So let me tell you a lil bit about Arctictraveler, a friend and mentor who has been there EVERY step of the way in my development as a Chief, and has also been there for some of the most recent darkest moments in life.

I first met Brian in 2002, when I was dealing with a very serious situation on a unit that had BAD alcohol issues. I wasn't there very long, and little did I know that what I witnessed on my unit would be the impetus to put me in a position where we would not only work very closely together dealing with personnel issues throughout Sector Boston and resolve the issues current at the unit I just left, but also become very good friends...friends who have, at times, butted heads, yelled, screamed, stood toe to toe, but in the end, came out with the utmost respect for each other because it was the right thing to do, and because we supported what the end result should be, as well as the process to get there. Many of the issues we discussed, dealt with, pondered over, and tried to resolve usually focused on one common theme in each issue...alcohol abuse.

Anyone who questions Brians viewpoint, accusing him or anyone else of tossing arrows from afar, doesn't even know first hand the experience and value this man brings to the table. We worked through so many personnel issues while I was not only a CDAR, but as opcen supervisor in Boston. Some of the things we dealt with would make you shake your head, and as the CMC at the time, Brian was always providing the RIGHT advice and course of action, making sure you understood ALL viewpoints before you had to make a decision on a course of action. Likewise, as our friendship and trust grew, Brian would confide in me and ask for advice. It was a give-give situation, one that would come in very necessary for me personally. So cutterman8, while you may have at first been offended by some of his comments about the recruits at Cape May, and I could completely understand your pride in what Cape May does as a whole, I'm sure once the two of you get to discussing some things, you may just find this man will have some good advice that could be digested and used appropriately. I can vouch for his feelings about some of the recruits, and can also vouch for the good kids that come out. I have seen both sides. One kid came here at my unit and is struggling because he got mixed up with the wrong crowd, while another young man I mentored when in Maine, ended up graduating early from high school, joined the Coast Guard in January, graduated boot camp in April, and is now in BM-A school..a great success story in my opinion. Cape May cant graduate robots, if they did, we wouldn't have the diversity that makes our service great. But we don't give up on the kids that
don't exactly come out of Cape May smelling like roses either. As far as the comment about stuff going on under your noses? No..I don't think that is happening even though it might appear to be. I've learned that there is no clearcut way to even KNOW when people are doing crap that is wrong, from ever being visible, unless people in the know are purposely turning their heads. Sexual predators, addicts, drug abusers, alcoholics, etc...will always find a way to hide what they are doing, because they don't want to get caught. It's just a matter of time before something happens where they lose control or don't think about the pain they caused before the cat's out of the bag, and then all hell breaks loose.

I have seen people attack each other on this board and start focusing on the amount of sea time one has, comparing units one has been to, tallying up awards compared to others, try to one-up all the sea stories, etc. etc. etc. Puffing up one's chest to push someone else out of the way and get your point across has no bearing on the issue being discussed, nor will it solve it. So what if someones sea time was 30 years ago? So what if someone isn't out there on a small boat, or getting deployed week after week, month after month? BIG FRIGGIN DEAL if you wear a cuttermans pin or not?? or coxswain pin? I respect immensely those who do, but I've come across many others who had no business wearing either one. I've met great leaders and learned from many in my career, and those who I learned a lot from never once pushed their resume in my face. That says a lot.

Now..back to the main idea of this thread:

In the case of this young CC, like every other situation, he has to be given the benefit of the doubt. What he did in his past career isn't going to mean squat to him or to whoever has the authority to judge him and hold him accountable. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty. . Right now it seems a lot of those facts are very unclear, except one..that alcohol played an important role in what may or may not have happened. What I think CAN be proved is all the events leading up to the accusations, in which case someones judgement might be called into question. However, thats what the legal folks get paid to do, not us. That's not to say there aren't folks with as much collective wisdom and guidance who can't offer a good insight into what mitigating factors came into play. Regardless, when this thread took on a new life of attacking one man's credibility, throwing barbs across battle lines, etc., we lost the focus of the discussion. I guess in some ways what I wrote is like the pot calling the kettle black, however, everyone on here makes good points, it's just that there is no need for all this chest puffing and challenging when the reality is there are two young lives, if not more, that are severely damaged now by the accusations, positions of leadership that were compromised, and the ambiguity of all these allegations flying forth.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wpbsailor2009,

wpb I believe that was one of the best aand most positive post I've seen here in a long time. thanks and keep it up, with leaders like you we can't go wrong

wpbsailor,

Well said!

Chuck

Thanks WPB. After reading your post, then re-reading my initial post that the MC commented on, I should have said it differently. I know the folks down at Cape May are doing their best, and turning out pretty darn good recruits. As Chiefs we used to talk allot, very openly, about issues that we felt needed to be addressed. Always behind closed doors in private. Our follow on actions were what was public, not our discussions. Any advice or suggestions I have for anyone should be passed privately. As I said earlier, a person potentially preying on our newest members sets my blood to a boil. Not the first time I got in the "ready, fire, aim" mode. Always trying to do or say the right thing, just not taking enough time to consider the approriate approach. Probably based on having dealt with too many broken individuals passed on by a previous commands with little or no action. In this case, I suspect that the individual involved will be dealt with effectively.

Senior, I still stand by my offer, if you have the time I can help pay for it. It sounds like you have a bit of the type of experience that we need, so let me know.

During my last tour at the TRACEN (1994-1998), we had two General Courts-Martial for active duty members who had committed offenses against recruits. One was an HS2 who figured out a way to get around the chaperone requirements in the clinic so that he could molest women recruits. He entered into a pretrial agreement with the Convening Authority, Commander, MLCLANT (CO of Cape May did not have authority to convene a GCM) and he was sentenced to a Dishonorable Discharge, 10 years confinement, total forfeitures and reduction to E-1. The other one was a Company Commander who would go through empty recruit squad bays and steal from lockers where the recruit had forgotten to lock it (which was always required). I don't remember her sentence, although she did receive either a DD or a BCD.
In both instances, the member was highly respected until caught. Each of them found a way to get around the procedures in place that were intended to prevent precisely the crime that was committed. My belief is that evil people (like these two) look for ways to do bad things and sometimes they succeed, despite everyone's best efforts to protect recruits from such predators. No one blamed the TRACEN at the time for the misdeeds of these two, and I think it is unfair to blame the TRACEN now for whatever happened here.

Certainly, TRACEN should not be blamed for these instances ... I think the combined screening process and the requirement for previous years of satisfactory service should be enough ... what's weird is that you have to have "rules" and "procedures" to subvert this behavior in the first place. As a general rule, do we have this many people with impulse control issues in the service? And are they gravitating towards C.C. jobs, so as to give a relatively small group (sum of all CG C.C.'s) a distorted image?

At least part of the problem is the visibility of TRACEN ... it's a microcosm of the CG in general, and anything that happens gets amp'd up and enhanced. On the other hand, Yorktown has the same problem, and we're not hearin' over there ... don't know what it all means.

quote:

Originally posted by PA_Retiree:
One was an HS2 who figured out a way to get around the chaperone requirements in the clinic so that he could molest women recruits. He entered into a pretrial agreement with the Convening Authority, Commander, MLCLANT (CO of Cape May did not have authority to convene a GCM) and he was sentenced to a Dishonorable Discharge, 10 years confinement, total forfeitures and reduction to E-1.

I remember going to that court martial. I was PCS'ing and my cutter had left for patrol and I was TAD for two weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by PA_Retiree:
During my last tour at the TRACEN (1994-1998), we had two General Courts-Martial for active duty members who had committed offenses against recruits. One was an HS2 who figured out a way to get around the chaperone requirements in the clinic so that he could molest women recruits. He entered into a pretrial agreement with the Convening Authority, Commander, MLCLANT (CO of Cape May did not have authority to convene a GCM) and he was sentenced to a Dishonorable Discharge, 10 years confinement, total forfeitures and reduction to E-1. The other one was a Company Commander who would go through empty recruit squad bays and steal from lockers where the recruit had forgotten to lock it (which was always required). I don't remember her sentence, although she did receive either a DD or a BCD.
In both instances, the member was highly respected until caught. Each of them found a way to get around the procedures in place that were intended to prevent precisely the crime that was committed. My belief is that evil people (like these two) look for ways to do bad things and sometimes they succeed, despite everyone's best efforts to protect recruits from such predators. No one blamed the TRACEN at the time for the misdeeds of these two, and I think it is unfair to blame the TRACEN now for whatever happened here.

Gee, thinks have changed since I was there (79). Back then, it was "ok" for the CC to enter a unsecured locker, dump it's contents (all over the squadbay) so you could spend the next few hours trying to collect everything. It was "encouraged" for other recruits to "take" said items if they had use of it. But stealing with purpose of resale is wrong (if that's the case here). But if they were "taking" said items as "trophies".. sucks to leave your locker open.

But it did carry over to outside the CG. When I'm camping with my boy scout troop, if a scout leaves their tent door "unsecured" we go in, take EVERYTHING out and leave it outside. So when the scout returns, they have EVERYTHING piled up on their cot. We did this about 2 times before they REMEMBERED to shut/secure the tent door. Plus, before they put the stuff back in, they get to SWEEP it out.. All scouts except the ones on the receiving end think it's funny and you can hear them say when they are leaving "did you close the tent door". We do this to teach them about safety (and how to clean a tent). We don't need snakes or bugs or other furry little critters taking up home while they are not there and trust me.. racoons in Michigan are smart enough to unzip a door that's not zipped all the way.

KNOT IN MY COAST GUARD

Where is Master Chief Evans when you need him? lol

It seems that it would've taken a while before whoever the recruit(s) were telling about their missing stuff believed them and actually started investigating. I remember the CC's being very unsympathetic towards complaints of that sort.

I wonder if the things that were taken were valuables such as wallets that were supposed to be kept in the ditty bag hung in the rear of the locker, or just random uniform items.

It'd be interesting to know the whole story for sure!

My recruiter, and my boss for the last 28 days, said he knew Medina pretty well prior to him becoming a CC, and he was shocked as hell that this happened. And yeah, anything like this looks bad for the Coast Guard. If **** like this was supposed to happen, maybe it wouldn't look so bad, but it's not supposed to happen.