quote:

promoted NOT selected.

Don't try to play semantics when you are not wise neough to use them correctly.

I have seen people make all paygrades that shouldn't have. However our enlisted advancement system is far better than the CWO system.

Last year 15th on the list for CWO, this year 39. What changed? The selection panel and the criteria. Do I have any feedback about how to be more competitive next year? No. The selection board will change as will the criteria. Our enlisted system is pretty simple, go to sea, do some time in your current paygrade, get good marks and write a good test. You even get to see the averages to see where you need to improve compared to your peers.

They keep telling me that the new system of resetting points is going to make it better. So at least the CG is making attempts at change.

I think you need to take a step back and look at the system objectively and not just because your angry you aren't going to make it this time.

quote:

Last year 15th on the list for CWO, this year 39.

oh heck, that is simple and easy to explain. As you become a more experienced, more well rounded Chief, and potentially a better Senior Chief, you automatically become a less qualified wardroom eating, fence jumping traitor to the Chiefs Mess!

quote:

oh heck, that is simple and easy to explain. As you become a more experienced, more well rounded Chief, and potentially a better Senior Chief, you automatically become a less qualified wardroom eating, fence jumping traitor to the Chiefs Mess!

Finally...Something decent to read, funny and even the truth...


Gunk

quote:

Originally posted by Mightyz90_93:

quote:

promoted NOT selected.

Don't try to play semantics when you are not wise neough to use them correctly.

no need for insults to start, i can agree to disagree, no one needs to change my mind, post your opinions on the subject and lets have a discussion. I'm not angry that I'm not making chief this go around, just hoping for a better system. I will continue to try harder until i make it. Maybe this new policy will improve things or maybe not

I think we should go back to some type of exam for CWO.

Hey Z that Anchor is the only plaque that is important on my wall.

quote:

I think we should go back to some type of exam for CWO.

It worked for me and you but hey, we're just a couple of dumb Irish guys from Boston.

quote:

It worked for me and you but hey, we're just a couple of dumb Irish guys from Boston.

But didn't they give you extra points for that?

quote:

didn't they give you extra points for that?

Yeah, but then they cancelled them out because we were cooks.

[
AKFly[/QUOTE]

108 should prove that i studied, I studied my own material and flash cards etc., marks 43, sea time 4.8 years, Awards 5, TIS 9.5 years, TIR 3 yrs. Bitter is not the word, The reason i started this discussion is because of alot of people that fall thru the cracks who have no business being Chiefs are unfortunalely somehow still being promoted NOT selected. And i know there are plenty of people who agree the system is although better than other services, still in need of becoming better.[/QUOTE]

What rank was your test? It should have been pretty high. Like I said before, you may just need more time. No matter the system you may find someone who you feel is not worthy to wear the anchors. Let those with no sins cast the first stone. I will keep my hands in my pockets.

quote:

Originally posted by FlynnPatrick:
I think we should go back to some type of exam for CWO.

Without a doubt....

Wray..

[/QUOTE]

108 should prove that i studied, I studied my own material and flash cards etc., marks 43, sea time 4.8 years, Awards 5, TIS 9.5 years, TIR 3 yrs. Bitter is not the word, The reason i started this discussion is because of alot of people that fall thru the cracks who have no business being Chiefs are unfortunalely somehow still being promoted NOT selected. And i know there are plenty of people who agree the system is although better than other services, still in need of becoming better.[/QUOTE]

What's going to happen when you make DCC or DCCS? When you apply for CWO and are beat out by a DC1, will the grass be greener?

Your 108 score didn't distance you from the average of 97. You may have garnered 10 points and ended with about 55 - 60 points for your Exam portion of the Servicewide Competition.

If you compared your information from the May09 SWE stats, you would find your slightly above average in the Test Score, and Marks. You lost points for TIS, TIG, Awards, and Sea/Surf. You would have needed to distance yourself more on the test. Being 11 points above isn't distancing yourself from your competition.

quote:

The reason i started this discussion is because of alot of people that fall thru the cracks who have no business being Chiefs are unfortunalely somehow still being promoted NOT selected.

You forget the most important thing in the advancement system, that is unfortunately controlled by humans, the Command Recommendation.

Everyone advanced had that all important Command Recommendation.

The 15 to 39 example is a good example of why you do not want a selection board determining who puts on an anchor or stars above that anchor.

So, if they brought back the CWOB (CWO Battery), do you think the brown cow with white spots and white cow with brown spots would re-appear on the test?

Phil,

By building a personal library ... it can be electronic. A library is a libray whether the books are arranged on a bookshelf or in an organized manner in a sub-directory.

Believe me, I prefer the electronic library. So much easier to quote using the cut and paste method.

quote:

Originally posted by DSEA1J:

quote:

Originally posted by Mightyz90_93:

quote:

promoted NOT selected.

Don't try to play semantics when you are not wise neough to use them correctly.

no need for insults to start, i can agree to disagree, no one needs to change my mind, post your opinions on the subject and lets have a discussion. I'm not angry that I'm not making chief this go around, just hoping for a better system. I will continue to try harder until i make it. Maybe this new policy will improve things or maybe not

No insult, just facts. I will be more specific for you:

Officers are PROMOTED from one grade to the next.

Enlisted are ADVANCED from one grade to the next.

I forgot one thing ... imagine that, an ol' fart forgetting something.

They replaced the CWOB (Battery Test) with the OAR (Officer Aptitude Rating) Test, then they went strickly to command recommendations and board selections to compile a promotion list.

There have been many that advanced or were promoted that looked good on paper. Only true competition, like testing, discriminates one candidate from another.

Me personally, I am really happy that they stopped using the OAR. I took it on a lark and unplanned becuase my Diviison Officer, who was the ESO had an extra test. I guess it was easier to admin it to someone else than to send it back not administered, so he told me to take it. (I was a QM3 at the time). That damned test got me in DEEP water with both the QMC and BMC when they found out I scored almost 20 points better than either of them (and 11 point higher than what they thought was the max). If they kept that test in place, I might have been tempted to go for CWO. So - I am damn glad they took it away!

MightyZ - I never had to jump the fence; they held the gate open for me...

One look at the pay scale of 75% of E8 or W4 at 30 years was more then enough for me...

I think the CG Advancment System is still as fair today as it was during my 26 years of service; sure there were inequities - especially in the evaluations system (some units marked people like the manual said - unless its been changed didn't the Commandant say that a 4 is the level in which someone should be at, in other words thats normal? Other units inflated marks. I always seemed to be at those units who followed the manual...

Well thanks to all for your input, it is clear that just as many disagree than agree so I will leave it at that. I will continue pursuing my career goals and wish the best others.

Lots of good discussion here but remember DC1, your career is essentially on you so just increase your effort, keep trying and it will work out for you eventually. I know it can be frustrating but I'll take our enlisted advancement system over boards any day. Boards are VERY subjective and potentially very unfair for alot of reasons...officer selection boards come to mind. The current enlisted advancement system overall is very fair and although you do have to wait the allotted TIS/TIG for the next move up, that only gives you the time needed to prepare for it and believe me, any extra experience you gain, you will be thankful for it when you step up as a DCC! As I went about my duties as an E-6, it became apparent to me there was much more to learn all around. Even thought I didn't want to, I opted to not take the CPO SWE when eligible and take it the following year. The knowledge/leadership experience I gained during that year saved my rear more than once when it was all on me as a new Chief. Is it money lost? Yes. Is taking the time to be sure you are prepared not for everyone? For sure, but consider this; whatever your goals are, it's much better to get advanced/promoted and STAY there rather than get moved back because of substandard performance OR held back from further advancement for the same reason. We all can think of "bad Chiefs/Officers" but a solid leader is attained over time which also helps to build a solid character....something that is essential for a leader. Unless one gives oneself adequate preparation, one could wind up being just like those "bad leaders" and boy did I make some mistakes as a Chief but am much better for it. As a leader, you wont always be popular but if you do what is right, you will be respected which is far more important.

Just some food for thought and hope it is helpful.

DC1,

If you publish the total points you got from the SWE, I can extrapolate the standard deviation from it.

Then I can tell you what each additional question was worth.

There is nothing magical about the SWE ... it all comes from the PQS' (both rating and PME). It encompasses everything from SA up to the rate your seeking.