Fact: Vice Admiral Papp (Coast Guard Chief of Staff) was CO of the Coast Guard Cutter Eagle when a Seaman Apprentice Lafond died from an operational accident onboard.
Fact: Captain Don Triner was relieved of duty by his operational commander, then Rear Admiral Papp, for scraping the side of the Coast Guard Cutter Mackinaw. The Mackinaw has a new steering technology that is new to the Coast Guard, and very well was a factor in the reason for the minor mishap. Read more at:
FACT: Some people don't know the defintion of the word FACT.
FACT: A vast majority of people never get promoted TO Capt, much less PAST Capt. A vast majority of officers NEVER get Command of a major asset.
FACT: Capt T was NOT relieved for his failure to ensure the safe navigation of his vessel, although the circumstances surely could have led to it.
ADM Papp is very well know for clearly laying out his expectations of performance. He is also very well known for taking action when his people, especialy his people in leadership positions, do not live up to those expectations. He places and more importantly expects a very high level of trust in his leadership chain. Through multiple events, he no longer felt a sense of that high level of trust existed and did what he was required to do. Plain and simple! Doesn't make Capt T (or any of the other people Adm P relieved) bad Coasties or bad people. It just meant that very special and high level of trust that must exist between a CO and their CDR no longer existed. Nobody is entitled to Command, no matter what their paygrade is. Command is a privilage and an honor that you must wake up every day and re-earn.
After the incident I had the pleasure to meet BOTH of them for the first time. They are both great Coasties! The interesting thing is that their assignments actually required the Adm to journey to the Capts office evrey morning and their interaction was excactly the same as it was between any other Capt and the Adm.
In the fall of 1996, my CEA came to me one morning and reported a rumor he had heard about an incident that apparently had occurred in recruit training a couple of weeks earlier. I directed the Training Officer to investigate the matter and report back to me. I did not advise anyone in my chain of command about the alleged incident, because it was still only a rumor. However, one of the officers in a Division other than the Training Division heard about the investigation and she informed a CAPT in Headquarters about the allegations that were being investigated. This CAPT, without giving me the courtesy of a phone call, told the Vice Commandant about the allegations. He came down hard on the RADM to whom I reported, because I had not yet told the RADM about the allegations. Although I still think I was right not to report anything to my chain of command until I had more concrete information from the Training Officer, I would have understood it if the RADM had relieved me as a consequence of his loss of confidence in me. Fortunately for me this did not happen and the RADM allowed the command to complete its investigation and take appropriate action (the rumor did turn out to be true). My point is that when one is in command in the Coast Guard, the expectations are much higher than for virtually any other position in our Service. Consequently, it takes much less of an error in judgment to lead to the senior officer's loss of confidence in the CO. I have know VADM Papp since we were both Commanders, and I have no doubt that if he lost confidence in a commanding officer, it was for good cause.
Capt; Great comments! Reminds me of a point I missed. The extreme expectations of those in Command are based hugely in the great authority they are given. The expectations exist to ensure that the authority is excersied appropriatly. A Capts authority in many things are final, ultimate and unquestioned/unquestionable. It takes a lot of confidence in a persons ability to excersise that authority appropriately!
My dad drank with Adm Willard Smith Of course they were both born on No Manitou Island. My dad called him 'Willie' What would happen to an enlisted man now a days that called his commanding officer by his (or her) first name?
I drank with three C.O.s and two X.O.s while I was in. No big deal since we all understood we just happened to be sharing the same bar and bought each other a few drinks. It was understood that it was not to in any way impact the enlisted/officer relationship while on board.
Het Stan, I never met any CO's out at bars while I was in, I did meet a retired Navy Admiral over the Vinyard that I shared a drink with in Oak Bluffs and shared some drinks with pilots while RON out of Sitka in Alaska. The Captains I remember wore beards and acted very much like you would expect a captain to act a bit aloof and proper. Peace, Dick
it takes much less of an error in judgment to lead to the senior officer's loss of confidence in the CO
I would suggest that analysis of the event that happened to you would not necessarily fall into "loss of confidence", but rather a "difference in judgement" - that is, anywhere except in the high nether atmosphere that surrounds the senior officer cadre.
I see that apparently, you did nothing wrong ... but the peristaltic action of the chain of command spasmodically kicks into gear, and suddenly, a good ole' goober is turned into a t-urd. As a dynamic, this action, and others I have seen so very much like it, simply amaze me. Do all O-5 and above get some secret supply of ether or something?
SA; Loss of Confidence could easily be interpreted as loss of confidence to make proper judgements. Or - insert any number of things to replace the bold. They are not mutually exclusive.
I see your point, but the mindset of which you speak sure reeks of an extremely tight-azz view on just what constitutes a proper judgement.
How is the subordinate to know when the "Embarassment Threat Matrix" has been exceeded, and a report to superiors is mandated? At least on ships, the standing orders attempt to spell out the appropriate times to get the old man out of the rack. At a training facility, there are so many avenues for transgression by the young and horny, I think that least a modicum of latitude should be granted at the first report of potentially embarrassing ardor? (That is what we're talkin' about here, right?)
And basically, it's all because of the need to subvert buffoonery and embarrassment of our Service. And I guess I just think it's a waste of our best and brightest to be hangin' them from the thumbs for the audacity of not jumping to conclusions ...
My husband was Chief Warrant Officer 3. He studied when on ice patrol. He retired when Adm Smith (the same Willard) was going to send him to DC. He wouldn't move his family again. He did 28 years in the CG.
I would have understood it if the RADM had relieved me as a consequence of his loss of confidence in me. Fortunately for me this did not happen
Fortunately for alot of people this did not happen. For those who have never had the pleasure to serve under PA retiree, the 33 Chiefs that served under him had his back every step of the way.
