Couldn't agree more on the comfort factor. Last summer I purchased a mesh riding jacket with armor inserts. I love it on hot days. It's just as cool as wearing a white t-shirt, yet provides full protection. I highly recommend them, especially you folks in the south with the really hot summers and longer riding season.

This is one of those requirements that makes sence, and is fun to comply with. The program is awesome and it is one I would really like to see become a state law to obtain the license.

Be safe out there.

A long way to go before we see that. Did you know that not every state even has a MC endorsement requirement? One state still has no specific MC endorsement, and that is Alabama.

I didn't know that. I believe education is a riders best defense.

Education and Training is important, reasonable PPE is important, but how do we deal with the behavior aspects? I am not sure what type of T & E (I said E, not A) can succeed in preventing people from driving well outside their skill level, impared, inattentively or well past road conditions. (or combinations of those).

Those are the people that get the attention of our leaders and policy makers. Maybe not right, but a fact of life.

Lisa,
When you get down here for Biketoberfest I will have this:


Actually I will have it in my garage tomorrow night.. It is a 2002 with 9700 miles on it... For under $10K... May buy it just to use as a trade on the 105th Anniversary edition.. Just too good of a deal to let go by...

Guess I need to find a SERIOUS Rusty Wallace fan to buy my Sportster....

Wray...

Phil,

I learned to ride when I was stationed on CHASE when it was homeported in San Pedro. It was out of necessity that I rode - two high school kids, a working wife, one car, and a 27 mile commute. I found a 1977 BMW R60/7 with hard bags and a Luftmeister fairing. Had the wife of the QMC onboard (he worked for Luftmeister in Long Beach off-duty) ride it home for me...I checked a book out of the library, written by someone from Oklahoma State who was a pioneer in developing and teaching motorcycle safety. The introduction to the book recommended reading the book before riding. Although it didn't save my life the first time I rode the bike it did save me from wrecking it! You know, in a car, how power in a turn can be your friend, and not so on a bike? Starting from a stop, turning left, too much throttle...son of a gun I was heading straight for the curb and it wasn't moving left! The book, I recalled so vividly, said roll off the throttle; which I did - and continued on my turn!

I never had a problem with alcohol but I knew I would be killed on a bike. In the fall of 1991, when I bought the bike, I already had a report date to the Naval Alcohol Rehab Center in Miramar...after 3 weeks I rode the bike down there so I had transportation available to come home on the weekends. I don't have that feeling that I will die on my bike now...

Sorry to digress; I firmly believe that 95%+ of riding is mental; I also know that I will never ever be able to ride my motorcycle to its capabilities - when I start to think that I better sell it first. True there are those riders like my friend Jim Weathers, killed 2 years ago in Colorado when someone T-Boned him when they pulled out into traffic without looking, or my friend Benny the Blade, who survived a similar accident last month. Could Jim and Benny prevented the accidents? Even if we are ever vigilant up on two wheels its dangerous. We older, more mature experienced riders (I've seen some pretty dumb older riders too...just add ethanol) need to stress the mindset and also lead by example.

RWL, I don't know if he did or not; it was mighty darn hot in Irving, TX in June or 1994...

Tim, was "MJ" Freeman on the Chase with you? She was quite the "Sportster" rider..

Wray...

quote:

Originally posted by Wray:
Tim, was "MJ" Freeman on the Chase with you? She was quite the "Sportster" rider..

Wray...

She was on the Chase when I was Wray. That was when Chase was in Boston. She must have been on there in 84-86.

Don

Only read the first few posts so if someone said this, sorry for the ZDK.

Sad thing is, the military member requires the motorcycle operator to take these safety classes. Now, they want ANYONE to do the same? When will they start requiring every automobile operator to take a "defensive driving course"? I'm all for safety but all the safety classes in the world will not protect you from the "other guy" and just because you have 20 years, 30 years of bike riding background, if someone crosses that middle line at highway speeds, MSF card carriers are going to die just as easy as a 18 year old on his first bike ride. If anything, the class makes you think twice from doing something stupid but it doesn’t teach you how to avoid someone running a red light, just not seeing you or those who just don’t care. When I took my REQUIRED course at NAS Key West in 82, it was more of a "get to know you and your bikes limitations".
What I’m seeing now (more then every before) are bikes with strait pipes. Myself, I see no street reason for bikes to run around the ‘hoods with what amounts to nothing but a pipe running from the head to the rear. At 2pm, no problem. At 2am. It’s down right annoying. Guess it might be a new trend but last city council meeting I watched in my area, someone *****ed about it and the city is looking at adding some sound noise level limits to cycles. Just like people who like to BOOM down the street with their 1000.00 stereo and subwoofer, it appears that these LOUD bikes are starting to become a problem. Guess since I don’t ride a bike anymore (even if I did, I wouldn’t want strait pipes), I can agree to that rule.

When I went to Boot Camp in the Navy in 1970 we had a class on defensive driving - no hands on driving but classroom. When I arrived at Airsta Cape May in 1975 I noticed a driving range and a batch of "well used" sedans. I don't know when defensive driving was discontinued at Cape May but it was being taught back then.

Dennis I have to disagree with you; the MSF Classes teach you (memory memory instead of muscle memory) on addition to the physical skills how to ride they teach you the mental part - how to make yourself safer - to scan and identify threats - and how to respond to them. Granted there will always be that line crosser or red light runner; but when I am on my bike, first at a light, I do not move when the light turns green - I pause, look both ways, and then proceed...more then once I saw someone who was running the red light - and would have been a bumper ornament...had I not been to the Experienced Rider Course I may not have looked both ways first...I am convinced that the riders who take the courses are much safer (as a rule) and have a lower accident rate. Those who try to find out exactly what their bike is capable of i.e. push the envelope so to speak, are the ones who lose control because they can't ride at the level of their bike...

Loud pipes at 2 am? Not in my neighborhood - the snowmobiles on the ice at 11 pm are bad enough!

Dennis;
Roger out on the straight pipes. But I got to tell you that 'other guy' stuff is just crap as a priority. EVERY SINGLE set of stats shows that the other guy is insignificant factor today. Sure, everyone has those t-bone stories which seem to stick in our mind. That said, I have read every class A MC mishap this year, and guess what NO OTHER VEHICLES INVOLVED! Not one! I don't mean to seem like I am going off on you, I just hate newer (or less skilled riders) even thinking that it is the other guy they need to worry about. It is their own potential stupidity they need to worry about! If we limited accidents to just the ones caused by the other guy - no Coasties would have died. NINE more would be alive! Nationally - it would be about a 75% reduction.

By the way, none of the services REQUIRE any non-military people to take the course. They just demand that if that person wants the privilage of entering base on two wheels, they need to show completion. (I know, that is a typical MCPO interpretation)

O yeah, that head on you spoke of would killed someone no matter what PPE they were wearing.

Thanks for being patient with my rants. I am passionate about several sides of this. I have more than 40,000 miles in DC rush hour traffic without a scratch. I don't want to be subjected to newer more restrictive regs but I also don't want to see more dead coasties!

quote:

Originally posted by Wray:
Lisa,
When you get down here for Biketoberfest I will have this:


Actually I will have it in my garage tomorrow night.. It is a 2002 with 9700 miles on it... For under $10K... May buy it just to use as a trade on the 105th Anniversary edition.. Just too good of a deal to let go by...

Guess I need to find a SERIOUS Rusty Wallace fan to buy my Sportster....

Wray...

I KNEW you'd do it, you ole sap!! I saw that 'love' in your eye back in October. When we were all in your driveway and there you and your bride were, eyeing and vying, wishin and fishin. LOL

I SO can't wait until October now!!!

Here's 'our boys'. Note, the blue one is my 2001 Fatboy Custom. I admit, I was scared Schitless riding it home for the first time; so afraid I'd lay it down as it was a much bigger bike than the Sporty I was used to and the ride home was a really REALLY curvy road. Now, my Coastie can't keep me off the damn thing. LOL At least he can't say that we wasted THAT money!! ROFL I SO love that thang!!! That Thunderheader Exhaust is an attention getter and I surely ain't complainin'! LOL I'm RELUCTANTLY selling my Sporty. *D* said its 'just not right' that I have two Hogs in the garage while he only has one ROFL

I'm ready to ride to see you guys down there, Wray! I even got my 'favorite Biketoberfest shirt' *snort* Anyone else gonna join us? Big John?

So, wanna come up for Little Sturgis??

Lisa,
Your bikes are beautiful... I'm not gonna do too much to this new one.. I may just ride it for awhile and move up to that 105th anniversary edition.. Been talking to the St Augustine dealer.. Guess I could give 'em both the Road Kind & Sportster, but I think I'll sell the Sporty to a die hard Rusty Wallace fan... It is a rare bike I guess...

I'm sure John & Dick will be here... maybe Coz (another Customs guy).. who know who else... At least Liza can ride with me this October...

Talk to ya soon......

Wray...

LOL Folks, see what happens when you become empty or nearly empty nesters??

I know how disappointed Liza was last year. I hope she is feeling much better to be able to go have some real fun with us this year. You don't think Liza would want to learn to ride the Sporty? She'd look awesome on it!

As we know though, 'what happens in Daytona STAYS in Daytona' LOL

Speaking of which, you know one of my #1 priorities this year when we visit, right? Yup!! You guessed it!! Going to Daytona USA to see RYAN's car!! Oh and BTW, we have a 'road trip' to Orlando in August...the Bosn's got to work but I can ride over to see you guys??

quote:

Originally posted by QM:
Couldn't agree more on the comfort factor. Last summer I purchased a mesh riding jacket with armor inserts. I love it on hot days. It's just as cool as wearing a white t-shirt, yet provides full protection. I highly recommend them, especially you folks in the south with the really hot summers and longer riding season.

QM, I'm so glad you posted this. I'm looking for a protective yet cool (as in temp) jacket to wear here in the warmer months. Up in New England, we always wore leathers but down here, I C K!!! We have the HD FRG jackets but Oh my Lord, those thangs are about 30 pounds dry! I've got my eye on one of those mesh riding jackets but was concerned about wear; does the mesh fabric fray or get fuzzy? Is the armor removeable? How is it in the rain? I would leave in the elbows but the back pad is a bit much for me; makes me uncomfortable feeling like a linebacker.

Needless to say, I'm shopping for another helmet. Mine got dropped somehow and chipped the top. I don't trust its integrity now and don't really want to find out if its been compromised the hard way if I can avoid it.

Tim, lucky for me, I'm about a mile inland from Lake St. Clair. So, the snowmobiles are pretty much NIL around my 'hood. Don't get me wrong, I think safety training is good. I have to take classes every year, training from using ladders to sitting correctly in my chair as not to "harm" my joints (as if age isn't going to do that for me) to how not to go blind while working with fiber optic cable. But you as well as QM knows that if you drive around the Detroit area, riding a bike pretty much makes you a target for some nutjob who is too busy eating/sleeping/talking behind the wheel. I'm sure if people could ride their cycles more then a few months out of the year, things might not look well for bikers around here. Maybe that’s why they mostly travel in packs of 6 or so, have loud bikes so people HEAR them or just stay on roads like Gratiot, the mile roads, back streets.. I just wanted to point out that I'm sure the military looses just as many people to car accidents as they do motorbikes, so why not have a DD course for them as well? BC in Jan-March 79 (9 weeks back then). Last week was range and defensive driving.

MC.. Rather you’re walking, riding a bicycle or motorcycle, your at the lower end of the food chain when a car is involved and I remember one thing if anything during my safety class.. MAKE YOUR SELF VISABLE. Heck, even walking across the parking lot at a Wal-Mart is getting down right scary. :eek

Lisa;
If you are looking for a 1/2 helmet, check out this site. $99 and probably the best 1/2 helmet on the market. A built in, iinterchangeble, INTERNAL, flip down/up face shield, removeable/washable liner, neck wrap, etc etc. Can not be beat!

quote:

I just wanted to point out that I'm sure the military looses just as many people to car accidents as they do motorbikes, so why not have a DD course for them as well?

Wanted to set this out seperately. Actually the bottom line numbers are not what counts. The % stats are scarry. Most stats show that the per capita numbers are 20-40 times worse for bike. I don't review cage mishaps as much, but I think we actually had less cage deaths even though there were a LOT more people/miles that way.

Dennis - that's why it is important for the rider, much more vulnerable on a bike, to be more proactive. The single most important thing I remember from my first MSF Course (where they actually provided the motorcycles) at Cerritos Community College, was the visual the instructor used. He held a #2 pencil up in front of the class and said to a car driver, that's what you look like, 50 feet behind him, on a motorcycle. I ride very defensively, 100% of the time, as if I can't be seen...because really it is hard to see someone on a bike - I know; riding as much as I can I would like to think I am more alert for riders but vroom vroom, where'd that crotch rocket come from?

Statistically odds of becoming a fatality or critically injured on a motorcycle are a lot higher then being in a car. Like being on a ship or flying a helicopter or running the bulls in Pamplona, Spain riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous; a manageable risk if the rider is mentally prepared - and that means anticipating those newspaper reading, makeup applying, text messaging, novel reading, getting dressed at 85 mph on I94, 696, and 75 everyday who are going to drive like idiots.

Riding a motorcycle is more mental then physical; in a car you can survive stupidity a lot more then you can on a bike. The military (all branches) acknowledge the value of motorcycle safety training; statistically you are more apt to survive the perils of riding if you have been trained. One life lost, on a bike, that may have been avoided by some training, is too much.