I just wanted to put out there that the Army is clamping down on requiring NOT ONLY SERVICEMEMBERS but ALSO DEPENDENTS (or anyone riding on posts/bases) to have required the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course. I frequent Fort Knox and have had no problem entering the post as I'm always prepared and very well outfitted with the appropriate safety gear. However, yesterday was a first that they ever asked 'me' (a dependent) for my MSF card; my Coastie has always presented his card with his ID when he enters in the past but not I. I dug through my wallet and handed it to them with a smile; they waved me through.
When I got home, through conversation with my Coastie, he read in the Army Times that posts were clamping down on Motorcycle Safety requirements. There have been far too many deaths and injuries due to motorcycle accidents.
So, even if you are retired or a dependent and wish to access military posts, please don't be surprised if you do not have your card in your presence that you will not be able to gain access to the post/base.
You can acquire the course through military posts/bases.
Good thing to bring up! Just to note, this is not, in any way whatsoever, a new requirement. It is a focused enforcement on an old requirement.
The same rules have been in place for our bases for some time. For both DOD and CG, everyone riding on base (regardless of status) must comply and every military member must comply whether or not they are riding on base. (ie - whenever, wherever they ride)
Just like DOD, we lost too many folks recently. There was not a case (Class A) that could not have been prevented by the person choosing a different behavior. Since someone brought up a MC Sfaety related topic, I'll take the chance to scream again: When choosing to ride on two wheels, make smart decisions! Key number one we observed last year - ride in a lawful manner! That was the single most key factor in preventing serious accidents!
I agree MC that this is not a new requirement for military members (my Coastie has had his MSF card for 27 years and has recently retaken the course when I took it). However, the new(er) requirement is now for dependents (who are riders, not passengers) being required and the reason for noting it. In the past four years of my riding solo, I've never encountered this from a dependent standpoint. We've probably visited 20 different DOD bases/posts.
Last year, I took a guest to Fort Knox for a visit. Before we left the house, I looked him over and told him what he needed to equip himself with (he was more of a free spirit rider - no helmet, fingerless gloves, etc.). He B'd & M'd about it but I just shrilled at him 'well then, ya ain't getting on' LOL
Alot of our riding friends ride with no helmets which is their personal choice. I keep thinking to myself though, even on the remote chance that I may get into an accident and LIVE, I don't want to face the potential of a debilitating head injury that will affect my family members. If not for myself, I owe it to them to do the best I can to be safe out there.
BTW, I'm in the process of writing a letter to the editor of our local newspaper on Motorcycle Awareness. Its spring and now bikes are out in droves. Yesterday I went for a nice ride and was just disgusted of how many car drivers couldn't give two schitz that we also share the road with them.
agree with your experiences, the bases have failed in the past to enforce the rules that did exist as far as EVERYONE riding on base being required to have completed training. The requirement is not new, just the enforcement.
I hit on this earlier last year. SEVERAL of the units that did post mishap investigations after a shipmates deaths on two wheels decided they would go 'over and above' current rules and make those Coasties who parked outside the gate take the training too! It amazed me that they were investigating a death and did not bother to read the COMDT Instrutctions that clearly say the military members need to take the course if they ride anywhere!
Great idea about awareness. I tend to forget that the fair weather riders have a 'season'! I missed about 12 days rides in to work over the last three years due to weather! 20 degrees out just means more leather! Only snow and ice stop me!
I can't stress the importance of taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic and Advanced Riders Courses. In the 90s I got sent to a Coast Guard ran MSF Instructor's Course - although I did not get my Instructor's Card (way too complicated to explain - in lieu of that I got a fid) I remain to this day an advocate of the training. When I was stationed at Group San Francisco from 1996-1999 I logged over 62,000 miles on motorcycles. It was 32 miles one way to work and I rode in the evenings as well. While I was there several bike accidents (neither rider had been through the training) - one a fatal tragedy that could have been averted and the other was bound to happen even if the rider had been through the training. Excessive speed and riding beyond one's limitations (and the riding conditions) were major factors. With the fatality, which really was a freak accident; the width of a concrete light pole could have been the difference in not dying; common sense and more judicious throttle and brake control (read slow down) would have prevented the other. That rider was extremely lucky; a Medivac Helo was able to land on the road to fly him out and a guard rail (which broke his legs) prevented him from a 150-200 foot drop off a mountain road...one of my Storekeepers was riding his bike in the group that was riding that day and saw the whole thing so I was given a first hand report. That accident happened on a Saturday the previous Thursday his department head and I gave him an informal intervention about his aggressive riding style and suggested he go to Willow Grove and take a Road Racing Class and learn where (on the track not the road) and when to ride that way...
Ironically the two Air Force MSF Instructors who taught me the Advanced Rider's Course at Travis AFB were almost killed while riding their bikes in the Napa Valley - an oncoming driver crossed the yellow line and hit them both. Fortunately their injuries were relatively minor; both bikes were totaled; but it is very unsafe out there.
Mr H; The facts haven't changed over that time. From what we can tell, the amount of riders have increased and the availbility/affordability of bikes for those folks that have not yet developed a keen sense judgement is much better. The MCPO-CG recently sent an email to every Chief in the CG talking about some of those informal (and formal) intervention methods you alluded too. Unfortunately, we are focused a little too much on the discussion of what 'proper' PPE is and too little on what 'proper' behavior is right now. We continually loose shipmates who WERE wearing proper PPE, but choose to behave in a way that was the direct or major contributary cause of their death. Almost alll of those cases involved behavior that was unlawful. It amazes me that some people think that if we delete the word 'shirt' from the sentence 'long sleeve shirt or jacket' that we will have any affect on a person operating a motor vehicle in an unlawful (and in some cases even felonious) manner.
Originally posted by SearchNRescue: ... I keep thinking to myself though, even on the remote chance that I may get into an accident and LIVE, I don't want to face the potential of a debilitating head injury that will affect my family members. If not for myself, I owe it to them to do the best I can to be safe out there.
Not just the possiblility of that debilitating injury, but even without a handicapping injury, there can still be quite a bit of SCARS from scrapes, cuts, lacerations, etc. on the face, arms, legs, etc. that can change a life as much as (although perhaps differently) as a "more serious" injury.
Good point about the affects on the family!
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MC, you couldn't have said it better. I don't care how much of a 'look' you go for trying to be safe (ie. helmet, jackets, gloves, etc.), if you're not operating your bike safely then no doubt, there's potential for disaster.
I don't argue with the law of physics, gravity or stupid people out there who WANT to kill me. Sure, there are times out of frustration that I've wanted to pulverize someone for a near collision but its just best to pull over, compose and move on when the adrenilen subsides. More often than not, I've been tailgated (they must just wanna see my ars!! LOL). At first I will signal them with my hand to back off and/or slightly apply my brakes to illuminate my brake light however, if they don't seem to get the message, I merely pull over and let them take the road with them. No need for them to take me with the road.
Motorcycles don't have fender benders; they go DOWN. I have several friends who have reluctantly earned their broken wings but each has a story that I've learned from.
I admittingly, really need to take an Advanced course; I'm ready for it. I have over 40k miles under my belt. I ride often in large group rides as well as long distance. Just gotta call the local post here and see when it is. The problem with the problem though is they charge for dependents (even CG personnel at DOD units); oftentimes to a tune of $300 for the course. If they're going to make it mandatory for members and dependents, then IMO, they should make it much more affordable to maintain the level of safety to keep us alive and within the requirements set forth by DOD/DHS policy.
I have to admit something though. Upon learning to ride, I've become a much SAFER, BETTER and more friendly driver. Perhaps there's something to be said there. Not saying all who ride are better drivers; just in my case, I've noticed I'm not so 'in a hurry' to get places. I've come to value life much more and all that encompasses it.
We are having enough issues with funding military members, I think funding of dependants will be near impossible. When you take into account potential insurance savings and some other issues, the price is a great value. (Hint: If you own a Harley, the Motor company will give you $50 worth of FREE HD stuff, one time a year, every year you take a course!)
Make sure you check out http://www.msf-usa.org/ for other local options. The ERC course is a great course.
One of the urban myths I try to kill as often as I can is the 'you got to watch out for the other guy' myth. 1 out of 2 MC fatalities occur in single vehicle accidents. 80% of those occur in a curve and are a result of the MC abrubtly meeting a fixed object. Now, of the other 50%, a great deal of them involve unlicensed riders, intoxicated riders or riders operating otherwise unsafely. The most modest estimates are probably over 75% of MC fatalities legally the fault of the operator. Although you will never see stats for this, I would bet a large percentage of those that were LEGACLLY the second vehicles fault, could have been avoided by an alert, properly trained operator.
Something else you alluded to I support fully. Most heavy riding MC riders are probably much better cage drivers too.
In the 90s I got sent to a Coast Guard ran MSF Instructor's Course - although I did not get my Instructor's Card (way too complicated to explain - in lieu of that I got a fid)
Would this be the class with the Filipino-American Charts and the "Moving right along (tap, tap, tap)"?
Actually, the instructors course consists of 1) you having a recent BRC/ERC yourself, 2) training on instruction and materials covered, 3) Practical application of you teaching a BRC under the eye of a training instructor.
As with the BRC/ERC, a fair amount of time is devoted to 'range time' or actual butts on seats training.
(Hint: If you own a Harley, the Motor company will give you $50 worth of FREE HD stuff, one time a year, every year you take a course!)
I did not know that! TFS Can it be a pre-owned Harley and does the bike have to be purchased at a HD dealer? Wished I would have known that back when I took the first course....I always love more chrome, gadgets and toys! I'm a guys dream when it comes to buying gifts! LOL In fact, for my birthday, I got a new set of handgrips, mirrors and windshield
One thing that my Coastie and I discuss all the time when getting ready to mount up (on the BIKES guys! LOL) is the importance of COMFORT. If a rider is not comfortable (ie. temperature, bulk, too loose or tight of clothing, etc.), they're likely not to have their minds completely on the task of operating the motorcycle. Its important to be prepared for all weather elements (ie. rain gear, extra sweatshirt, warmer gloves, etc.) and wear clothes applicable to motorcycle riding.
It is a benifit of being a member of HOG, so as long as you own a Harley, you can join HOG. You do not need a Chapter membership, just National. Technically, it is 'Mother HOG' that send you the chrome bucks.
FYI, looks like we won't get anything but thats okay. Its worth posting anyways though to perhaps entice H.O.G. Members to take advantage of some training. According to the HD website (member area):
quote:
At the Harley Owners Group®, safe riding is a top priority. So, to encourage all our members to ride as skillfully and safely as possible, we offer tuition reimbursement up to US $50* (in the form of a coupon – see guidelines below) for the successful completion of an accredited Motorcycle Safety Foundation** rider training course (Motorcycle & Moped Industry Council course in Canada), or Harley-Davidson Rider's Edge® course. Successful students will also receive a pin and patch featuring the "Safe Rider Skills" logo.
As a further incentive, H.O.G. chapters with at least 12 members completing a course in a single calendar year will receive special recognition: a Safe Rider Skills plaque.
Official 2008 guidelines: 1. You must be a current H.O.G. member on the date the course began, and you must send the proper documentation within three months of the course completion date.
2. Reimbursement will be in the form of a H.O.G. coupon, which may be applied toward H.O.G. membership renewal or H.O.G. and Genuine Harley-Davidson® merchandise.
3. Limited to reimbursement for one course annually.
4. Maximum reimbursement is US $50*, and does not cover the cost of training books, videos, etc.
5. Tuition reimbursement coupon and/or pin and patch can be obtained by submitting a completed form with a copy of course receipt and MSF (MMIC) or Rider's Edge certificate indicating successful completion of the course. Forms are available online, at your local Harley-Davidson dealer, or by contacting the H.O.G. office. Send forms to: Safe Rider Skills, c/o H.O.G. office.
6. After a minimum of 12 members from one chapter complete an accredited rider training course during the 2007 calendar year and have submitted their individual certificates to H.O.G., a Safe Rider Skills chapter plaque will automatically be sent to the sponsoring dealer.
My son told me the other day that he is hoping to get in on the motorcycle safety course being offered at the base he is TAD at, 29 Palms, California. I told him I thought it would be a good idea to take it.
Oh man...sweet! I'm taking mine over to a mechanic tomorrow to have him replace a bunch of parts. I got my new exhaust, a Jardine 4 into 1 but wish I could have found a 4 into 2 that I liked.
Paintjob is almost complete on the tanks and battery covers. I say tanks because I am working on both bikes, '80 Yamaha XS1100SG and '81 XS1100SH. New Dunlop tires should be here any day! I had both seats reupholstered. Almost time for riding here in New England.
RWL - without details; it wasn't that one...things were so bad they had to bring the State Motorcycle Safety Program Director to supervise the course after the Chief Instructor failed his certification...long story short - I got DI'd because of the actions of another Instructor Trainee...I blew the whistle because something wasn't safe - and got penalized...it was BS.
Was that the chief instructor trainee that later broke his arm (or was it leg?) by running a stop sign, cutting behind a bus, and plowing into the car that was behind the bus in the other lane?
I was a MSF instructor for 18 years, I didn't renew when they came out with the new courses and the new attitude "everybody passes" even if they drop the bike or fail every exercise. I went through a navy IP, I was already an instructor when USCG came out with their short-lived program.
20 degrees out just means more leather! Only snow and ice stop me!
