"Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?" - Gordon Lightfoot
Posted
OK, I think I may live to regret starting this topic but here I go.
I'll explain a little first, I was on a Marine Corps board made up mostly of parents of Marines, my son is one.
The topic was about gays in the military which you all know can get very heated. I voiced my deep concerns about my son possibly being put into the position of having to treat an HIV infected person, gay or not in a war zone.
Me, I feel strongly that if a person feels they might be at a high risk for HIV, they should take all precautions of finding out before going off to war. If any tests show they are, they should not place their fellow Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, etc at risk.
I know that HIV is not an automatic death sentence but from everything I understand, once you get it, you've got it for life.
So with my son being a Marine assigned to Amphibious Assault Vehicles, one of his possible missions would be to recover wounded personnel. Am I that horrible or a homophobic because I fear my son might contract HIV from the blood of someone with shrapnel in a wound?
I thought about a few cases in my past when I had severely wounded Haitians. One was a car accident in the FL Keys where a guy had a multiple compound fractured arm. I held his arm until we could get him out safely. Would I have done CPR if it came to it? Honestly, I doubt it.
Then there was a high speed boat chase one night when the smuggling boat rammed us. A Haitian woman who was in the bow of the suspect boat slammed her face into the side of our hull. She had very serious facial injuries with lots of blood. I lifted her into our boat and cradled her until we reached CG Station Ft. Lauderdale. Would I have done CPR on her if needed? I really don't think I could have without any protective CPR mouthpieces.
So what's the verdict? Am I some horrible person because I thought I might contract HIV and have my time with my kids cut short? Maybe I am, I really don't know.
Like I said, this may get brutal but I would like to hear your thoughts on this. What would you do? Any SAR case experiences either way?
Anyway...back on the Marine Corps board, not on military.com but another, I have been blasted for being a homophobic and a fool.
Don - There is no room for political correctness on this issue. your very life is at risk w/HIV. I'd advise any military person to always carry the mouthpiece and a pair of rubber gloves in the field. Period. If I was in your situations and did not have the mouthpiece, frankly, i'd give them consolation but no CPR. Call me heartless but we all know it is a reality PARTICULARLY in Africa and the Caribbean.
Most first responders & EMT's carry barrier masks for performing CPR. The days of lip locking to perform CPR are gone. I used to laugh at an EMT instructor I once had who used to act out San Francisco CPR. From a standing position 2 breaths directed down at the victim followed by 15 compressions with his foot on the chest. Cheers!
I have been an EMT for 15 years, and have worked in the health care field for 5 years since I got out. I would say that there is always a risk when dealing with bodily fluids. Does this mean that you do not help out? No, it just means you use universal precautions. I have had 2 major blood born pathagen exposures. Was I scared, of course I was. Did that mean I stopped doing what I do? Not at all. I am just that much more careful now.
Helping others out is human nature. Especially when it is a fellow shipmate. What I would do if I were you is read up more on HIV and AIDS and become more informed about both. I think that once you do that you might be somewhat less judgemental and be able to make a better decision about it.
I don't think you're wrong to be concerned abotu the possibility of HIV infection, but I fail to see the connection between that and the topic of gays in the military.
Besides, there are all kinds of pathogens that are passed through bodily fluids, any of which can harm caregivers. As long as the proper precautions are taken (masks, gloves, etc) the possibility of transmission is pretty remote (as far as my untrained knowledge might indicate)...
It's useless to discuss this for the following reason: Until he is in that position, who can say what he will do? He will make up his mind at that point whether or not he will take action.
HIV isn't the big worry, HEP is. When you depoly, you get a medical screening that should pick up HIV. If not, oh well. Deal with it as it's here, it's going to stay, and it doesn't mean that the person is gay. It's also present in females, drug users, etc.
Again, just tell him to do what he thinks best and not to sweat it. It's really hard to pick up HIV from that type of interaction. It's really easy to pick up HEP from that type of interaction.
I've been a health care provider for 30 years, pre HIV and post HIV, I'm not sweating it as long as I take basic precautions. Gloves and a CPR mask. By the way, CPR in a firefight is a none issue.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: BTDT,
I know, I just put HIV out there as one possibility since it can be passed from an open wound. Should my son cut his hand working on that wound because of shrapnel I worry he might contract something that could have been avoided.
Very small chance, I realize that but non the less, something I worry about as a dad since part of his job would likely involve rescue/recovery work.
Originally posted by SacraficialMetal: Didn't you already bring this up a few months ago.....why start the same thread when you made the same points then?
Don't lose any sleep over it. Are you saying no topic is ever rehashed in here?
This time my question was more about who feels what when it comes to CPR on someone with HIV.
As an CPR & BBP instructor I can tell you that there is always a risk of catching a blood borne pathogen such as HIV when in contact with bodily fluids. It is acceptable to do chest compressions only when performing CPR if a barrier devie is not available. Studys have found that you still oxygenate the blood just not as effictly as when combined with rescue breathing.
as for myself I treat everyone as though they have a blood borne pathogen and will not come into contact with any bodily fluids unless I have the appropriate barriers. The only exception is with children. I understand the risks but I would have a difficult time living with myself if for example I did not administer rescue breathing to a little child because I did not have a pocket mask with me at the time and the child died.
Don, I think everyone of us agree with you. I also treat everyone as if they had a a deadly BBP. In the field I have my EMT kit. On the road I do not. I will not administer CPR without protection. I think this a personal choice, and I would never fault anyone for doing without protection. It's thier life, thier choice. And I am empathetic to the drive to save a life. But I am a selfish bastard and I want to live.
Don, Before fairness, political correctness, being safe, or any other reason you may have to look at all sides of this issue, you are a father. So am I. When it comes to my daughter all bets are off, and nothing else matters but her. But we cannot wrap our kids in bubble wrap, duck tape, laser alarms or any other thing we think of that will guarantee their safety. If and when your kid is faced with saving someone's life, I am sure as with you, he will think only of saving the person that needs help.
I think you should worry more about a drug-resistant staph infection before worrying about hiv.......
"About 18,700 people die in this country each year from drug-resistant staph infections, according to a federal study released Tuesday — more deaths than the United States sees from AIDS annually."
