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Military.com Forums Coast Guard Discussions Point-CounterPoint NEW Cutter Alcohol Standards|
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Member |
Im fairly surprised that this topic hasnt made it to the boards yet (unless I havent seen it).
From the recently promulgated update to the Shipboard Regulations Manual:
There are ALOT of units that spend ALOT of time in B6. For example, my PB spends periods of 2 weeks in B6 fairly regularly. This policy effectively restricts you from having even a glass of wine with dinner, or a beer with your lunch...no room for discretion; drinking on port calls for a few classes of cutter are pretty out the window. Fine by me, but I know there are lots of people who will have to adapt to this, and some who will feel the burn when they disobey. Its interesting that the CG took soo long to institute such a policy for cutters. But I can see why. The only previous policy seems to be the UCMJ and Drunk on Duty or Drunken Operation or 134, along with some miscellaneous policies in CG Regs and PERSMAN (etc), which all left a ton of room for superiors' discretion and interpretation. And if there was to be a policy such as this, if has to be this strict, because really- you either draw the line or you dont. Is this new policy being disseminated, and what does everyone think? This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jason_Greene, |
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Member |
Oh and for the sake of the OPSEC/INFOSEC flag throwers, this pub is found in the public domain,
R 252133Z SEP 09 UNCLAS //N16000// ALCOAST 555/09 COMDTNOTE 16000 SUBJ: NEW SHIPBOARD REGULATIONS MANUAL, COMDTINST M5000.7A A. SHIPBOARD REGULATIONS MANUAL, COMDTINST M5000.7 B. THE COAST GUARD DIRCETIVES SYSTEM, COMDTINST M5215.6E 1. THIS ALCOAST ANNOUNCES THE PROMULGATION OF THE LATEST EDITION OF REF A. 2. REF A IS CANCELLED. 3. THE FOLLOWING SIGNIFICANT CHANGES WERE MADE: A. UPDATED THE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, NARCOTICS, AND OTHER CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES SECTION TO INCLUDE CLEAR ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION POLICY STANDARDS FOR THE CUTTER FLEET. THIS ACTION WAS BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE CUTTER CREW READINESS STANDARDS (CCRS) WORKING GROUP. B. UPDATED REFERENCES AND WORDING TO INCLUDE RECENT CG ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGES. C. FORMAT IN ALIGNMENT WITH REF B. 4. THE MANUAL IS LOCATED AT THE OFFICE OF CUTTER FORCES WEBSITE HTTP://CGWEB.COMDT.USCG.MIL/CG751/GENERAL/MANUALS.HTM. THE CG DIRECTIVES INTRANET SITE HTTP://CGWEB.COMDT.USCG.MIL/CGDIRECTIVES/WELCOME.HTM AND CG CENTRAL. HARD COPIES WILL BE PROVIDED UPON REQUEST. 5. CG-751 POC IS LT CHRIS TUCKEY AT (202)372-2342 OR CHRISTOPHER.B.TUCKEY(AT)USCG.MIL. 6. RADM PAUL F. ZUKUNFT, ASSISTANT COMMANDANT FOR CAPABILITY, SENDS. 7. INTERNET RELEASE IS AUTHORIZED. |
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New Member |
I've never been on a cutter so I can't add a lot to this. Just out of curiosity though, how much of you time is spent in "B6" versus a less ready status? Are we asking our shipmates to be absolutle, completely sober for 80% of their time or 25%?
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Member |
I just breezed through last years PB schedule for my district. For OPSEC's sake, without doing terminal calculations here, I'll say that we were in "B6 or Higher" more than 50% of last FY.
* An interesting parallel here would be the Boat Forces policy, which states that alcohol shall not be consumbed by any member of a duty section within *12 HOURS* of assuming duty. Most station personnel spend %50+ of a given year on duty. I would say that the arguable difference is that alcohol consumption by these folks is CERTAIN taboo, of course, on duty...12 hour rule or not. So on Port and Starboard (typical), thats %50 of a year not even counting all the 12-hour countdowns. With the cutters, the problem is that you're not in uniform, and it doesnt SEEM soo taboo; a potential attitude might be "oh we never get recalled." Until you're seen at the restaurant/bar suckin one down. |
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CG Forums Moderator Are you going to pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?  |
...No, it's not. See my comment above. Be VERY CAREFUL on what you can see from SWS III and from a non-CG computer. The hyperlinks in the message WILL NOT open on a non-SWS III computer. And I WILL throw that flag every time...  Carpe Debier: Seize a Lager! |
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Member |
Jerry, not true. I am at home SIQ. The Shipboard Regs Manual is available at the following INTERNET link:
http://www.uscg.mil/directives...5999/CIM_5000_7A.pdf I restored the initial post to original condition. If you went to the pubs internet site to verify, to your credit, http://www.uscg.mil/directives...cim.asp?id=5000-5999 and didnt see "Shipboard Regulations Manual", its because they (in error) didnt put the appropriate title next to the CIM number. |
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CG Forums Moderator Are you going to pull those pistols or whistle Dixie? |
Jason:
Then I apologize. I just followed the links in the message from both SWS III and a non-CG computer to verify. In the future, try to post the Internet CIM authorized link instead of the Intranet CIM unauthorized link. Thanks! Jerry G And now, for everyone else, the sideshow is over. Back on topic...  Carpe Debier: Seize a Lager! |
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Member |
I have been in aviation for 21 years and have had to live by 12 hour alcohol rules since I came into the service. From that perspective I was absolutely shocked on my first CG deployment. I guess I expected that if aviation personnel could not drink for 12 hours before operating or working on an aircraft, I assumed a crew of a ship would have the same type of rules.
What shocked me was that within a couple of hours of the ship being in port the primary crew members were all drinking heavily. Junior members were trying to get early morning duty so they could drink, then go on duty to sober up so they wouldn't waste liberty drinking time later. If that was the general culture then fine, I guess. But it was a surprise for me having dealt with rules from another service prior to that. Such as receiving orders in the Army prohibiting anyone to drink for a month while at our home base because we were on a two hour recall for that time and could be called at a moment's notice. Or orders stating you could not drink at all in a combat theater. Not saying one is better that the other, just surprisingly different. I guess the point of my rambling is that I don't see how those limits are that big of a deal. The crew has to function properly and being intoxicated while operating a ship is hardly functioning properly. Let the beatings begin. |
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New Member |
No beatings required
 And really nothing new. While this has only finally been promulgated in official COMDT INST, in reality MLCs/LANT/PAC/districts have had various instructions in place for a few years now. I definitely get where you are coming from by the way. A very good friend of mine in aviation got an AI because when he went to the dentist in the morning before going on duty they smelled alcohol on his breath. Don't know the remaining details other than that but the smell was enough to get him reported and earn an AI. |
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New Member |
During my time in the Royal Navy we like so many other forgin services recived alcohol on board underway we had emergancys and never had a problem we people falling over drunk or unable to perform because we were treated like adults (also legal drinking age under 21)we acted like adults and policed our selfs.
While I was in the Coast Guard I stood B2 B6 on cutters and port and starboard at a small boat station and only on occasion saw where some one was unable to perform there duty due to alcohol I was always more worried about the ones who were stoned. |
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Experienced Member |
Here is some math for you. Cutter Crews spend roughly six months of the year U/W. Of the remaining 6 months, about 1 1/2 months are spent on duty in the duty section. So that is 7 1/2 months. So, if a Cutter Assumes a Maint Status immediately upon mooring every time (VERY UNLIKELY) and you don't take out the normal workdays, your answer is 62.5%. That may sound like a lot, but what job are you allowed to be intoxicated at? |
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-Troll |
I didn't see where church ativities are exempt (Communion). Doesn't appear to be an exemption for it so I guess if you want to follow the policy you can't par take. It doesn't say a small amount is ok.
Or did I miss it? |
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New Member |
Hmmm...the sects that actually use wine in communion instead of grape juice (i.e. catholics etc) would argue that once its blessed it is no longer wine but actually becomes the "blood of christ". Plausible deniability?
In all seriousness though I can't see how this would become a problem. Even if you were called and told to report immeadiatly while simultaneously taking a tiny sip of communion wine there would be zero alcohol in your system after driving home, getting your uniform on and driving to the boat. |
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Experienced Member |
Where does it say you can not have alcohol in your system? It says you can not consume. Seems pretty counter intuitive to BOTH integrity as a servicemember and as a (insert name of a devout sect) to try the 'it wouldn't show in a pee test' excuse.
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New Member |
Fair enough, and I would assume (but you know what they say about assuming) that there would an exemption for religous ceremonies. Has this issue ever come up?
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Experienced Member |
Why? I mean we don't let people take a snort while U/W for 'religious' purposes, why would we make an exception for it here? |
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New Member |
I can't tell if you are being serious or not. We don't let people snort at all even if it is for "religous reasons" and yet when I was 18 I took communion, wine and all, from a Coast Guard chaplain in a Coast Guard chapel.
We as a country have made decisions on what is accpetable religous practice (I've never seen a church raided for giving wine to 16 year olds) and it's been upheld by courts. |
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Experienced Member |
Pretty serious, with a little attempt at humor thrown in there. Religious choices are not an automatic waiver for miltary requirements or orders. If we can tell a 7th day he has watch Friday night, or a Muslim that he has to stay on the helm instead of stopping the ship so he can do his prayers on time, why would we give a Cathiolic this exemption?
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I intend to live forever. So far, so good. |
Oh come on.. you don't honestly believe the CG would prevent or not authorize people from taking communion at church do you? You don't "drink" wine there, you only get a tiny sip... The CG would NEVER bar that.. I'll bet money on that one.
Wray...  |
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I intend to live forever. So far, so good. |
Phil, Communion is not just for catholics.
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Military.com Forums Coast Guard Discussions Point-CounterPoint NEW Cutter Alcohol Standards
