"Coastie vs Guardian"

I don't see this as Coastie vs Guardian. Coastie will stick around for ever. It's more like Guardian vs Coastguardsman or Sailor.

Coastguardsman won't work any more due to the PC police (it's just the way it is) and sailor is a Navy thing (who wants to be associated with that?).

Guardian was suggested and many Coasties decided to use it, probably because there's nothing else to use.

Everyone on here is hating on it.. but it's a change that needs to happen and I haven't heard any better suggestions. You got any?

On a side note that video was horrible . The boot camp one was pretty good though.

quote:

Coastguardsman won't work any more due to the PC police

Jimmy, I would suggest you pick up the latest issue of the Navy Times.. The term Coastguardsman was used all over the place with the Annual Navy Times Military Members of the year.... (not worded correctly, but you get the point.. if not, pick up a Navy Times)... of course the MCPOCG did not use his name.. instead he was "SKIP"..... (I wonder if ADM Allen gave him that nick name )

As I recall, the term Coastie or Gardian were never used.

Wray...

I have no problem with Coastguardsman and hope it stays. I just have my doubts with the way everyone is jumping aboard the PC train.

Fireman = Fire Fighter
Policeman = Law Enforcement Officer
Postman = Postal Woker
Snowman = Snowperson
Coastguardsman = ?

A few bad "guardian" eggs will turn the label into a joke. You know why? "Coastguardsman" was never an attempt to summarize behaviour -neither are any of the other service names for their personnel. It is the actions of our people that best define us, not a word.

Hey, why not just change the name of our service while you are at it:

Coastal Guardians!

better yet:

U.S. Homeland Guardians!

Keith, as you well know, the Coast Guard (those in DC) often "over react", rather than just reacting to a need for change. I consider this just one more of those blunders.....

As many have said, it is not "our" CG any more.... (those of us that have retired)... to an extent they are correct. That does not mean that we can not have concerns, opinions or thoughts on things that happen post retirement.

Often the wheel is re-invented, only to find out that is was done once or twice before.

Wray...>

I've seen a couple posts about the non-political correctness of the word "coastguardsman" which, for the sake of our younger generation that is about to inherit a our beloved Coast Guard, I'm going to respond to.

First off, check the dictionary. A coastguardsman is a "member" of a coast guard. There is nothing gender-related about it.

Second, check with the Air Force, the most sophisticated military service of the five branches: somehow, somewhere the AF PC police must have been napping when the proposal for "airguardian" was presented because the AF enlisted force is still known as "airmen."

Third, anyone who says "coastguardsmen and women" is simply being redundant with his grammar or speech when "coastguardsmen" will do. It is lazy logic to suggest otherwise. In fact, I privately (well . . . used to) consider it mildly detrimental to esprit de corps and unit cohesion to even use the term "coastguardsmen and women." It suggests the speaker has to do a visual gender-check when speaking to a crowd full of coastguardsmen, which is ultimately an unwelcome reminder to some that they are somehow different, which we know they are not. The term "coastguardian" is just another not-so-subtle reminder that we may be smart enough to write an award with an exchange-bought word-style book but not smart enough to open up a copy of Strunk and White.

As far as the Coastguardsman Creed, General Orders, and Guardian Ethos, etc., these fine examples of prose are not general orders and one cannot be booked for not living up the ideals they set forth. One's oath of office, UCMJ, and local and COMDT instructions are what count and, one hopes, will always count along with Webster's Dictionary.

Wray:

Do you think that if we go with "Homeland Guardians" we can be called "Homies"?

Next we'll have the National Guardian.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy_Z_:
I have no problem with Coastguardsman and hope it stays. I just have my doubts with the way everyone is jumping aboard the PC train.

Fireman = Fire Fighter
Policeman = Law Enforcement Officer
Postman = Postal Woker
Snowman = Snowperson
Coastguardsman = ?

I just want to correct one point. Fire Fighters never accepted the Fireman label. It had nothing to do with political correctness. As my Father a Fire Fighter for 30 years always said "Fireman shovel coal into a boiler, Fire Fighters fight fires."

It's going to be hard to come up with something better than "Guardian". I hate it, but it works. Coast Guard ---- Guardian

quote:

Originally posted by original_ftg:
I actually used the term "Guardian" today in a LOA that I presented to a departing member vs "Coastie". It flowed nicely and sounded professional...I think I'll keep using it!

I actually found an article about enemas in the Guardian. It also caused things to flow nicely...I think skip using it though!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2002/mar/09/restandrelaxation.shopping

****, now that I think about it Coast Guardian is about as close to Coast Guardsman as you are going to get (only two letters are different).

If we HAVE to make the change ---> Coast Guardian is fine. You won't find anything better.

yea be careful what you wish for!!!!!



heh hehheh

"It's going to be hard to come up with something better than "Guardian". I hate it, but it works. Coast Guard ---- Guardian"

Sir: it may work for you but for me it is word that is detrimental to my military readiness. If I ever get underway again, I think my stomach will churn everytime I hear that pseudo-sophisticated word (i.e. affectation), as it does now when I'm on land. In short, instead of being sea-sick for the first three days, I may be sea-sick the entire patrol. Good grief, I may have to take the patch.

You want a better word. We already have one: coastguardsman - so full of meaning. After that: coastguard; it works for the Marines (think about it).

This attempt to neuter our language with almost-complete disregard for thinking within the context of our heritage is a form of subtle organizational self-disdain that is politically, publicly, and militarily unneccessary. What's next on the chopping block: yeoman, seaman, fireman, cutterman, and airman? This is the a fortiori logic behind "coastguardian" taken to an even greater extreme.

quote:

You want to see cheesey?

Check out this Cheesey Movie CGHQ made to go with the "New Coast Guard"

It appears that a certain E-10 wants to be a "Hollywood Movie Star"!

I wonder how much money stations and Cutters are not going to get in fallout funding for new equipment and other needs that got spent on this crap.

Wow, you are right.. that is a "Cheesey clip"... pretty pointless in my opinion. Is that all they have to do at HQ?

I think it is time we heard from Skippy or some of the other HQ lurkers about this... Of course I really don't expect any to take an opposition to it, unless they too are anonymous.

Wray...
P.S. Unknown ---> don't forget.. there is no E-10 paygrade.... even Skippy say so.

quote:

You want a better word. We already have one: coastguardsman - so full of meaning. After that: coastguard; it works for the Marines (think about it).

hmmm..

"We are Coastguard"

"He's a Coastguard"

"Look at those Coastguard over there"

Not bad.. kinda like lifeguards.

Would you prefer "Look at those Coastguard over there" or "Look at those Coastguards over there"?

I think we should just start calling ourselves "puddle pirates" from the movie The Guardian!

quote:

Originally posted by coasite_chic:
I think we should just start calling ourselves "puddle pirates" from the movie The Guardian!

Second that...haha! Had to laught at that!

quote:

It's going to be hard to come up with something better than "Guardian". I hate it, but it works. Coast Guard ---- Guardian

Unfortunately, that works for National Gaurd too! Think I will stick with Coastie. Besides, you aren't supposed to PICK your nickname.

Sir:

I think you know I prefer neither. The point is one regarding brevity and public relations. By deduction, there is only one reason to want to use the word "coastguardian." The word, "coastie" was a strawman; "coastguardsman" was the true target.

If the Coast Guard ever found itself having to deal with a public relations disaster such as Mai Lai or Abu Graib then we might have a political reason to move forward with some new form of identity. In such an event, for the sake of the Service, I would probably support the idea.

For ethical and legal ethos, one starts with one's oath of office and for inspirational ethos, one might read the Coastguardsman's Creed. These are two dichotomies that I personally try to be clear to myself about otherwise I might instead of using the word "ocean-going" I might write "deepwater" and instead of "today's fleet" I might write "legacy assets." In other words, I may haven't thought about what I'm saying which to today's citizen coastguardsman is an implication of a really really bad idea because I may know to talk the talk (fancy words) but now I have no idea where the sanctity of life and protection of property is written into USCG instruction (SAR Manual I believe and USC) or what my legal protections against an abusive superior are (Coast Guard is under no legal obligation to tell you about your rights under request for redress).

Now we, by accident or design, mix the two dichotomies and there's a chance that it might just put us back in the "you have to go out but you don't have to come back in" mentality. Reading the ALCOAST, it states "THE ETHOS IS DIFFERENT - IT DEFINES THE ESSENCE OF THE COAST GUARD AND COULD BE VIEWED AS THE CONTRACT THE COAST GUARD AND ITS MEMBERS MAKE WITH THE NATION AND ITS CITIZENS." Then I read this "contract": "I will save them". Where is the caveat to review the SAR Manual before attempting to put this ethic into action? According to my understanding of the GAR Model, the sanctity of life begins with one's own life. In my opinion this is an unneccesary, possibly dangerous, mixing of what we consider "ideal action" with adherance to one's understanding of oath of office and Service instructions.