From MCPO-CG

"Today an ALCOAST will announce details on the Sea/Surf/Award point reset policy. The next time a member is advanced after 1 January 2010 any Sea/Surf/Award points they have will reset to zero after the advancement. If serving afloat, members will immediately start accruing sea points at the same rate we are currently using. Those points will then be able to be used for the member’s next advancement. When the member advances again, the points will reset again. The same goes for Surf/Award points.

It is important to note that no one who presently has points will lose them. They will be able to use them until their first advancement on or after 1 Jan 2010, and then they will reset to zero.

The Sea/Surf/Award point system is not being done away with. It is being altered to fix a growing inequity in the advancement system and get back to the policy’s original intent, which is to encourage our people to ask for sea duty."

More to follow...

The ALCOAST will reference my Blog at http://coastguardallhands.blogspot.com/

quote:

The Sea/Surf/Award point system is not being done away with. It is being altered to fix a growing inequity in the advancement system and get back to the policy’s original intent, which is to encourage our people to ask for sea duty."

Only possible issue I see here is whether or not there are enough afloat billets to accommodate all who want them.

I am not sure I get it. I thought the idea was to reset it all after advancement to E6.

T

They way I interpreted the post it gets reset after each advancement. E-4, reset, E-5, reset, etc.

So, how will folks try to "work" the syatem? I would suspect that if their goal is to serve the minumm time afloat, they will hold off on sea time until they are getting high enough up the ladder that the competition to advance is tough.

quote:

Originally posted by militia1:
I am not sure I get it. I thought the idea was to reset it all after advancement to E6.

T

Negative... it will reset after EACH advancement. I personally prefer the "E6" solution. I think it perhaps give a better picture of a potential Chief by considering awards/etc awarded only as an E6. But, I don't recall being asked! I am glad they have addressed this situation. The LOC I received as a nonrate for inspecting a whole bunch of PATON has absolutely nothing to do with my ability to be a YNCS! (Other than perhaps extended excellence performance.)

I have to disagree with some, I believe the points you earn should be points you keep. It doesn't matter how you got them you earned them, and that's that. If anything award more points for sea. Then when all the guys who have seatime are advancing maybe then some get the hint. You can still write a good test and advance. I know this is a rant but I have been on patrol for close to 5 months now and am now catching up on some things. This one I could actually be an agnostic on show me something to prove it right and i might be convinced.

The system's never gonna be perfect. Here's an example:
Joe Coastie #1 and Joe Coastie #2 both took the May 08 SWE for OSC. Joe Coastie#1 makes E-7 on 01DEC09 and Joe Coastie #2 makes E-7 on 01FEB10. Joe Coastie #2's points reset, while Joe Coastie #1's points do not. When they both compete for E-8, who has the advantage? See where I'm going here?

My take on this is, that a member who deployed for the majority of there career and is maxed out on points, loses all such earned points to a guy who spent the majority of there career on shore can be equals... You know it's gonna be on, when one member who has 1 year at sea, gets the advancement, when he/she scores higher then the member who's been at sea for 13 years gets bumped out due to this program.

Not to put too sharp a point on this... But when it comes awards and advancement, Janet (that's Jackson, if you are nasty!) said it best... "What have you done for me lately?"

this is a step in the right direction. but i think points should be a non point when it comes to advancement anyway.

advancement to the next highest paygrade should be based on how much you know not how many years you've been on a boat, or how many awards you have. it should be an even playing field for everyone.

just my .02

Hey is this reset thing also apply to your personnal awards? Because if it those I feel this is an insult. I think they can come up with a better solution, I cant believe the Coast Guard would do something like this.

I believe that TIS and TIR do more for advancements than award or sea/surf points...If they are going to limit the award/sea/surf time then maybe they should consider revising the limits for TIS and TIR...This new change is guranteed to help the "dinosaurs" who may not have the knowledge down advance over those that do...

JK24

quote:

Originally posted by Fistermk:
Hey is this reset thing also apply to your personnal awards? Because if it those I feel this is an insult. I think they can come up with a better solution, I cant believe the Coast Guard would do something like this.

You only get points for personal awards unless that changed in the last 4 years.

Troy

I think you have a great point actually.

According to the information I have seen, this only applies to sea/surf duty points. Award, TIS, and TIG points remain as they are in effect yesterday.

I've been trying to go to sea, and can't get it. So, I think they need to re-evaluate how the rates assign the members to sea duty. I'm still going throught how they would do that, but it would have to be different for every rate, since each rate has different numbers of sea duty billets.

quote:

Originally posted by Juniorkilo24:
I believe that TIS and TIR do more for advancements than award or sea/surf points...If they are going to limit the award/sea/surf time then maybe they should consider revising the limits for TIS and TIR...This new change is guranteed to help the "dinosaurs" who may not have the knowledge down advance over those that do...

JK24

Yeah that is the problem with the whole system, there should be an even playing field for everyone, regardless of TIS, TIR or any of the other points. Why give leverage to someone who has been in for a long time and cant score well on a test or just doesnt have the knowledge over an achieving junior member that has the knowledge but lacks extra points?

quote:

Originally posted by mainesk:

quote:

Originally posted by Juniorkilo24:
I believe that TIS and TIR do more for advancements than award or sea/surf points...If they are going to limit the award/sea/surf time then maybe they should consider revising the limits for TIS and TIR...This new change is guranteed to help the "dinosaurs" who may not have the knowledge down advance over those that do...

JK24

Yeah that is the problem with the whole system, there should be an even playing field for everyone, regardless of TIS, TIR or any of the other points. Why give leverage to someone who has been in for a long time and cant score well on a test or just doesnt have the knowledge over an achieving junior member that has the knowledge but lacks extra points?

I couldnt agree with you more...

JK24

I am getting a bit amazed at how many people stop reading the MCPO-CGs email after the word "SEA". This applies to Sea Time points, Surf time points and yes, Award Points.

Just to get folks thinking correctly about how each element affects your final multiple, know this:

The way the fancy math works when converting your raw score to a final multiple element is actually pretty simple.

The person who ties the average score gets 50 points towards their final multiple. Each question away from the average yields a 0.9 to 1.1 point difference. In other words, if the average is 74 and you get a 76, you will get roughly 52 points towards your final multiple.

So to lay it all out:

1 question ~equals
6 months sea/surf time equals
6 Months TIR equals
1 year TIS equals
1 Good conduct/Comdt LOC
~5 point overall increase in marks average

If you understand that, then you see how easily how to boost your score and how your personal and career decisions impact your ability to advance. Of course the easiest number above for you to control is your test score.

SUBJ: SWE SEA/SURF DUTY AND AWARDS POINT POLICY CHANGE
A. PERSONNEL MANUAL, COMDTINST M1000.6 (SERIES)
1. THIS MESSAGE ANNOUNCES A POLICY CHANGE TO THE PROCEDURE
FOR CREDITING POINTS FOR SEA TIME, SURF TIME, AND AWARDS IN THE
FINAL MULTIPLE ON THE SERVICEWIDE EXAMINATION. EFFECTIVE 1
JANUARY 2010, PARA 5.C.16 AND PARA 5.C.3.B.OF REF A ARE CHANGED
TO AUTHORIZE FINAL MULTIPLE CREDIT FOR ONLY THAT SEA TIME,
SURF TIME, AND THOSE AWARDS EARNED AT A MEMBER'S CURRENT
PAY GRADE WHEN THEIR DATE OF RANK IN THAT PAY GRADE IS 1
JANUARY 2010 OR LATER. THIS CHANGE WILL BE IMPLEMENTED WITH
THE FOLLOWING RULE.
2. ALL MEMBERS WILL RECEIVE FULL CREDIT FOR ALL EARNED COAST
GUARD SEA TIME, SURF TIME, AND ALL AWARDS CURRENTLY
AUTHORIZED FINAL MULTIPLE POINTS FOR THEIR FIRST ADVANCEMENT
ON OR AFTER 1 JANUARY 2010. FOR EXAMPLE, A MEMBER WHO IS NOT
ADVANCED IN 2010 BUT AT A LATER DATE WILL CONTINUE TO RECEIVE
ALL EARNED COAST GUARD CREDIT FOR SEA TIME, SURF TIME, AND ALL
AWARDS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED. ALL SUBSEQUENT ADVANCEMENTS
WILL BE BASED ON THE NEW POLICY.
3. THIS CHANGE WILL TAKE EFFECT FOR THE RESERVE COMPONENT
WITH THE OCTOBER 2010 SERVICEWIDE EXAMINATION AND APPLY TO
ALL DATES OF RANK OF 1 JANUARY 2010 AND LATER.
4. MEMBERS ARE DIRECTED TO THE MCPOCG BLOG AT
HTTP://COASTGUARDALLHANDS.BLOG.../SEASURFAWARD-POINT-
ADVANCEMENT-RESET.HTML TO POST QUESTIONS.
PLEASE REVIEW THE POSTS AND OFFICIAL ANSWERS BEFORE ADDING
NEW QUESTIONS.
5. RADM JODY A. BRECKENRIDGE, ASSISTANT COMMANDANT FOR
HUMAN RESOURCES, SENDS.
6. INTERNET RELEASE AUTHORIZED.

If the intent of the policy is to encourage more members to serve at sea in the future then any decision which could be perceived as trivializing years of dedicated sea service in the past will be counter productive.

If the policy really wants to encourage sea service then decisions should be made to increase the benefits for serving at sea, not decrease them as this effectively does.

This change will not encourage people to go to sea. It will actually discourage it I believe. For E6 and below the average is one advancement per tour. Following that the most someone could beat me by would be 9 points, 6 sea time points and 3 award points if the get a commendation medal. I can make up 9 points on the test. Why go to sea?

The people who really get the shaft in all this are the current E7's. I will use I for the sake of making the point. I compete for and advance to E8. All of my points reset to zero. Any current E8 gets to keep all of theirs. I am now around 20 points behind as most (if not all) have 10 award points, and a fair amount of sea time. Until they make E9 or retire I am stuck at the E8 level. Well, once we all get stuck at E8, then we have people stuck at E7 etc. There is a good chance this will lock up many of the rates, especially ones that had quick advancements to the E8 and E9 level.

Knowing the answers on a test do not make someone the most qualified candidate. The minutia that is found on these tests has nothing to do with making someone a good technician, ship driver, or navigator. Removal of these points has placed additional emphasis on the test, and that will be what decides advancement. Someone who instead of working on equipment, or driving boats, or working moboards, was reading the pub and has no practical experience to back up the theory.