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Military.com Forums Coast Guard Discussions Point-CounterPoint Coast Guard RIF (Reduction In Force)?|
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I intend to live forever. So far, so good. |
That is what caused all the whining before... people were saying they couldn't advance due to the "old timers" staying past 30.. Problem with that was it simply was not true. I was able to make E-9 with the dinosaurs still in existence as many put it. They never slowed me down.. It was just something else to cry about.. Since retention is so high now all the more reason for HYT to be actively in place and used. Give those other poor whining soles a chance to move up the advancement ladder... if they can. Wray...  |
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There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch |
I could swear I read somewhere that there was talk about ADDING 8-10,000 to the CG, now there's talk of RIF?
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I intend to live forever. So far, so good. |
Stan, now that you mention that I think I recall that as well...
Wray... |
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Experienced Member |
Wray, I disagree. You and a few other ratings might have been the exception. Three things were in play back then. (1) If a rating has "X" number of E8/E9 billets and many of those are not retiring within the 20 - 30 yr window, there will be minimal upward mobility for the <20yr crowd. (2) We were under the old SWE TIG/TIS calculation system...ie....dinasaur(sp) points were in play. (3) Some ratings had real high retention rates at the highend. That means more bottom feeders competing for fewer openings. I happened to see my TIG info again today. I liked taking SWE's. After A school, I think I made the cut for E6 in like 3-1/2 years, advanced around the 4th yr. I made E5 on the 2nd SWE and E6 on the 2nd or 3rd SWE. I was stuck at E6 for over 8 years. I was writing good tests but didn't have the TIS/TIG points back then. When you're writing in the top 15 (constantly) and dropping back to the 30's and 40's on the list of maybe 60-70, something is wrong. The advancements for ADC's back then was great if more than 3 people made it. Once HYT kicked out the high-enders, it opened up the floodgates. I want to say I was in the 30's on the E7 list when I made the cut. I have it somewhere. I made E8 on the 2nd SWE (#17 on the list) and I think E9 on the 2nd (#7 on the list). I think that was the time they threw out the AMTCM E9 SWE because of an error in the SWE booklet and one of the units stopped the guys from taking the SWE (a no-no). All of us had to take a make-up. I would have made it off the 3rd SWE (#5 I believe) too had I needed it. All of the historical advancment info for all ratings is in CG Central if anyone wants to see it. IMO.....we might see this again in the aviation ratings down the road with alot of junior people promoting to E5 - E7 over the last few years and a bad economy. We'll need to see if the 30 yr HYT cap keeps the bottleneck to a minimum. John |
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CG Forums Moderator |
MC, you just gave me hope! I was getting pretty down about sitting at E-6 and not being able to get anywhere on the SWE lists. I think this new system of using your points towards one advancement will help out too. |
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Experienced Member |
Writing a better test then your competition has always been the best way to beat the **** out of those dinosaurs.
If Wray's competition were well over 30 years TIS, and he still advanced to E-9 in just about the minimum time ... that should tell you he wrote very good tests. Wray has said in the past that over half his CG career he was an E-9. |
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Experienced Member |
Joe, One needed to write a GREAT test to beat out the points in the old days...a good test isn't going to work. But then if the cuts are nil, it hurts. I don't know what Wray's SWE list placements were....I'd be curious if he wants to post it up. How long was he in for? If 30, then he made BMCM within 15 yrs TIS. That's sounds real good but I'm don't know what the norm was for BMCM's back then. John R-Sox, Study to write a #1 test everytime. Whatever it takes to get one more question correct than the next person should be your mantra. Don't wait till the last month to start prepping for a SWE. Quality of SWE material is more important than the amount of actual study time. Get in the manuals and disect them. You know you've got good manual time when you know the revision dates of your manuals. If you're using other people's stuff, you have to validate everything. Don't assume anything is correct or upto date unless you visually confirmed it. On my year 6 or 7 at E6, I remember writing a letter to the local Admiral expressing my frustration with the stagnation. Below is my TIR info. You can see the near 3 years it took at E3 waiting to get to AD school back in those days and at E6 waiting to move up. AMTCM 3.81 AMTCS 5.41 ADC 3.75 AD1 8.25 AD2 2.41 AD3 1.91 SN 2.29 SA 0.54 SR 0.14 Hang in there..... This message has been edited. Last edited by: TVCJohn, |
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Experienced Member |
FAIR NOTICE - I AM 'half' of that crowd - just the GB half, not even close to 30! But to answer your question, lets clarify the POLICY. A person who applies for and is excepted as a GB when UNDER 30 may be allowed to FINSH THAT TOUR. So, for a fair amount- that means they get less than 24 months past 30. I don't know why anyone would have an issue with that. If you are qualified and selected for the very top jobs in the top paygrade, seems reasonable. The more important question right now is why should we let an E-5 go TO 30 (or even 20 for that matter). |
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Member |
I knew a YNC that went about 3 years OVER his 30 yr mark. I don't think ANYONE understood the reasoning behind that! Heh...
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Member |
Why not? If the E-5 is good at his/her job, why force someone to advance if they don't want to? Master Chief, you been in long enough to know this happened "way back when". Seemed to work in my opinion. What is wrong with being good at your job? GUNS  |
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Experienced Member |
Guns;
Not concerned about forcing them to advance. BUT, if they want to keep their job and significantly increase their retirement pay for the rest of their life, I have no problem requiring them to step up to the plate and take on a role that allows (requires) them to take the responsibility of an E-6 and start passing on all of those good skills they have. Also, at some point, they are plain and simple in the way out of a just as good, or better, person wanting to move from E-4 to E-5. Simply put, there is no such thing as a mythical 'awesome performer' at the E-5 level with two decades experience who "can't" make E-6. |
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I intend to live forever. So far, so good. |
John,
I think this has been covered many times but... Right out of boot camp I went to CG AIR STA Cape May.. talked to an old Chief about the aviation ratings... since I had just left college flying planes. He told me how slow anything having to do with aviation was. It was at that point I decided to go BM. Once again, I made Chief with 4 ribbons.. 45, m-16, national defense and a good conduct. When I made BMCS I didn't have much more.... maybe anothe good conduct. As Joe has said.. the way up the ladder is with a good test. As for the dinasours, the YN had the most people in it over 30 when HYT went into place. Some things never change and this is one of them. Wray... |
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I intend to live forever. So far, so good. |
Phil, why should a gold badge be allowed to finish that tour, and an OIC of a cutter, or anyone else for that matter not be allowed to complete their tour ?? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.. right? In not, why? Wray... |
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Member |
I didn't say the person "can't" but if they like their job as an E-5 why "can't" the person stay in that pay grade? Not really different than say a person making Master Chief say in 15yrs and staying on for another 15yrs. Isn't that MC "in the way for others to advance"????  GUNS |
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There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch |
In 1968 I was stationed on a ship with a BM 2 that had served in WW II. He had recently worked his way DOWN from BM 1. The man was incredibly knowledgable and if the C.O. wanted to know if it was too rough to launch the small boat he asked the BM 2, not the BM 1 or BMC. We talked one time about why he wasn't at least a CPO. He told me he enjoyed "doing" more than "managing".
Made sense to me. He was probably one of the best BM's I ever met. It was always fun when we would have an Admiral's inspection. There he would be, lined up in his dress blues with no ribbons. The Captain and Admiral would be inspecting the ranks. The Admiral, whichever one it might be, would usually stop in front of him and say "Carpenter? Still a BM 2, hmmm?" It usually turned out he had served with the Admiral when the Admiral was an Ensign. |
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Member |
I spent a LOT more time at ET2 than was usual at the time. I knew several people who agreed with me that 2nd Class was the best of all possible worlds for a young single liberty hound. When I shipped over and became a hash mark ET2, I worked for a slick-arm Chief. Only problem was that I knew what I was doing & felt good about it, while he cried about his terrible responsibility every time he went ashore & had a few drinks. He ended up going to OCS and either flunked out or resigned as soon as he was able, cuz I never found his name in the Register.
I made 1st Class around 6 years, Chief around 8 and Warrant at 10, and I was always happy with where I was without ever making a wild push before I was ready. Soon after I retired, I worked with a guy who retired from the Air Force as E5. it was how he wanted to do it, & I think that is probably the important thing. Most of us do our best work when we are confident of doing it right. |
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Experienced Member |
Wray, I knew about your award points. Do you remember your TIS times for each advancement? If you made MCPO in 15 yrs (if you had 30 yrs) in) that is great. John |
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I intend to live forever. So far, so good. |
Well I can ball park it...Made E-6 on my first enlistment. Made Chief in 78, E-8 in early (Jan I think) 1982, and E-9 May of 84.
Retired 1 FEB 1999 I entered the CG June 27th, 1969. The only test I took twice was the E-7 exam.. everything else, just once. Wray... |
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Experienced Member |
Wray, Wow! That's quick! They way I guesstimate it.... You were E6 by 1973. Took the E7 SWE in 76 and 77, advanced in 78. Took the BMCS SWE in 81, advanced in 82 (Jan 1st). Took the 83 BMCM SWE, Advanced in 84 Does that sound right? That would put you as a 15 year BMCM (69 to 84). Have you heard of anyone else who made it that quick? Times must have been different back then. John |
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There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch |
Times were different back then, although I suspect Wray would have done just as well today. When I was in BM was a relatively quick moving rating. GM, on the other hand, was really slow as you moved up the paygrade ladder. It wasn't uncommon for only two GMC's to be made in a year. Lots of GM's retired as first class.
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Military.com Forums Coast Guard Discussions Point-CounterPoint Coast Guard RIF (Reduction In Force)?
