Can a command schedule a Captain's Mast if the accused hasn't even been served with a 4910?

Before this goes any further, you may want to do some research in the appropriate COMDTINST's or ask your Chief.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "Served"...

The accused will be presented an "Acceptance of NJP and Acknowledgement of Rights" and has at least 24 hours to review it and make a decision based on all the facts. Additionally, the accused is presented with the 4910 near the beginning of the process to afford the member an opportunity to select a mast rep.

There is no legal requirement to fill out or present a member with a 4910 for NJP.

The only legal requirements are to notify the member of their 31(b) rights, and if they are not attached to a ship, their right to request a Court Martial.

The command also has to appoint a mast rep. However, this can be done at the start of the mast.

Everything else is policy and guidance subject to the discretion of the Command.

NJP can be held in a fox hole, during a hurricane, 2 seconds after the CO decides to do it if they so desire.

Under normal circumstances, the procedures in the Military Justice Manual should be followed. But “should” and “shall” are not the same.

quote:

Originally posted by tip_dog:
Before this goes any further, you may want to do some research in the appropriate COMDTINST's or ask your Chief.

+1. This open message board isn't the right forum for your question.

quote:

Originally posted by chrisogle1:

quote:

Originally posted by tip_dog:
Before this goes any further, you may want to do some research in the appropriate COMDTINST's or ask your Chief.

+1. This open message board isn't the right forum for your question.

You two would do better by posting the COMDTINST number or help them find it. I was stationed at many units that didn't have all the pubs and manuals. Sometimes it took weeks to find the answer.

I see no problem with the asking of a generic question. Maybe there is no one is actually going to MAST. It could be a discussion and they can't find the correct reference and came here for help. Maybe 22003462 is the Chief and is trying to help someone. Maybe they don't know the number of the appropriate COMDTINST's. Give the people asking questions here a chance before, shutting them down.

This is not a questioned that can be answered by going to one manual or even two.

Unless you read and fully understand the UCMJ, the MJM, all other regulations, laws, instructions and guidance, understand their hierarchy and also fully understand the difference between words like: "shall", "should", "may", "can", etc. this is not a question someone can easily figure out for themselves.

The bottom line is this; sea lawyers, even when they work for free are overpaid

quote:

Originally posted by EMC_:

quote:

Originally posted by chrisogle1:

quote:

Originally posted by tip_dog:
Before this goes any further, you may want to do some research in the appropriate COMDTINST's or ask your Chief.

+1. This open message board isn't the right forum for your question.

You two would do better by posting the COMDTINST number or help them find it. I was stationed at many units that didn't have all the pubs and manuals. Sometimes it took weeks to find the answer.

I see no problem with the asking of a generic question. Maybe there is no one is actually going to MAST. It could be a discussion and they can't find the correct reference and came here for help. Maybe 22003462 is the Chief and is trying to help someone. Maybe they don't know the number of the appropriate COMDTINST's. Give the people asking questions here a chance before, shutting them down.

I completely agree. If the statement was:

"I'm going to mast for 'this, this and this' but never signed a 4910. What should I do?".

Then I'd understand shutting the individual down, but for such a generic question, its really not that big a deal.

Reference the COMDTINST 5810.1D - Military Justice Manual - here's a hint. Read page 4. Just do your research and you'll find all the answers you need. If you have further questions your best bet would be to talk to your Command Chief/Senior Chief/Master Chief or CEA (Command Enlisted Advisor - do they have those anymore? Honestly, I haven't heard that term in years)

Maybe if the OP is a CPO, his former leaders failed to intoduce him to CN 5600, where he could find out the instruction numbers.

Maybe they need to bring back the SSIC type questions on the SWE ... so some will know the generics ... like 5000, 1000, 9000, series and what they reference.

or just maybe, the OP is not a CPO and their CPO is unapproachable.

Lots of scenarios ... little answers.

I do agree the conversation needed to be directed to the person's CPO or Command Chief.

my 2 cents;

Although this should not be the SOLE source for the question, I don't see a problem with the discussion. After all, why have one person learn something when MANY can. My fellow MC, MC Ayer, had a great response and post above that probably educated a LOT of folks about the difference between what usualy happens and what is REQUIRED.

Ya know, there's a whole website devoted to CG pubs and directives. It's even available on the World Wide Web: http://www.uscg.mil/directives/default.asp, so the excuse of pubs not being available is bogus. If the OP is here on military.com, they can get to the above site.

I'm sure more are available inside the CG firewalls.

I was trying to prevent this tunring in to a discussion of "who did what to who..."

FWIW, CEA's are still around, called "Command Chiefs" now, AKA "Gold and Silver Badges."

When in doubt, call District Legal...

quote:

Originally posted by JerryG:
When in doubt, call District Legal...

That doesn't work, they will just tell you that your soon to be exwife stopped by earlier and no one in the office can talk to you!

You're not authorized to call Legal if booked underway according to the USMJ.

quote:

The command also has to appoint a mast rep. However, this can be done at the start of the mast.

Not necessarily true, you may go to mast without one(BTDT ), the members choice. Not recommended of course.

GUNS

In 1972, when I was CO at Loran Station Gesashi, the BMC put a young SA on report for some minor infraction. I knew from talking to the Chief that he had done this because the young man had an attitude problem and less formal means of correction had not worked. Before we had scheduled our normal mast proceeding, the SA put in a chit through the chain of command to speak with me, which was approved. He then came in to speak to me alone in my little office. I listened to what he had to say and we discussed things for at least a half hour. At the end of our conversation, I asked him if were willing to accept NJP (since this was a shore station he could have refused). He did agree, so I went ahead and imposed punishment right then and there. I don't remember exactly what I gave him, but the Chief was satisfied with it. More importantly, the Chief never had another problem with this SA during the remainder of the SA's one-year isolated duty tour. With all the refinements that have been made to the NJP process in the last 35 years or so, I doubt that a CO today could do what I did then. However, if the purpose of NJP is to correct minor disciplinary problems, I think a CO should have great leeway in how he or she proceeds in these situations.

quote:

Originally posted by JekelKat13:
You're not authorized to call Legal if booked underway according to the USMJ.

Try again.

quote:

Originally posted by Mightyz90_93:

quote:

Originally posted by JekelKat13:
You're not authorized to call Legal if booked underway according to the USMJ.

Try again.

My fault, it was improperly worded and I also had a typo and referred to the wrong manual. MC, you know how things come out when they are typed to quickly and not scanned for mis-spellings and grammatic errors...

According to the MJM vice the UCMJ, a member attached to a cutter does not have the right to request to consult a lawyer regarding a request for Court-Martial vice NJP. However the CO CAN grant the request, (who really calls for counsel for a Captain's Mast?) as long as it doesn't delay the process.

It's all guidance and up for interpretation. First is says that the person is NOT authorized, and then it says wellllllllll... if its okay with the CO.... then maybe....

Much better!

As far as who calls for counsel for an Art 15, well it depends on the situation and the charges. Remember ONE of the potential outcomes of NJP is referal to CM. What you say at a NJP can be used against you in a CM. That would include admitting to the charge. Also, matter that come up in NJP can also be used in other administrative proceedings such as discharge.

The wording is there for a reason. The limitations on a person's ability to demmand certain things (like a CM vice NJP) aboard Ships or other 'mobile' units surely HAD it's reasons. They were primarily based on the limited communications ability while at sea.

All,

I kept the original post vague for a reason, because a member is part of an investigation. The members CPO, CMC, Department Head are all in the loop/informed and have directed the member to his/her rights, right to Mast Rep, right to an attorney, etc. The members immediate chain of command fully supports him/her. I only posed the original question because the member, and the member's immediate chain of command are as stunned as much as I am as why the command has scheduled a Mast, yet the member hasn't even been informed of the charges formally. The member's immediate chain of command is standing by the member. I only posed the original question because i thought by some strange way that the member's immediate chain of command or I missed something along the way.