Montauk Station Officer in Charge removed for training in rough weather:

<http://www.newsday.com/long-is...-commander-1.1544126>

EDIT - UNAUTHORIZED HYPERLINK REMOVED

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LetsGoRedSox,

I don't undersand

It would have been OK if some clown had "recertified" the experienced surfman.

Incredible !!! absolute BS. A lousy piece of GD paperwork sends this Chiefs career down the ****ter. What in the hell did you people design thew GD boat to work in ????

Watching these decisions by shorebound pencil pushing "maritime people" about working conditions they have no clue about just throws another major hit towards the credibility of the management and the agency you people have to deal with today.

Note to all you working mariners out there, make sure that your distress conditions are within the Coast Guards guidelines, otherwise you may find no-one is "qualified" to be of any help.

Look at the backround in the picture, rough weather my azz .

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mastersmate,

If the Officer in Charge is not qualified who is,why do they have a 47 footer there,for looks???

Joshua James sure wouldn't make it very far in today's agency would he BOSN?

Bernie Webber must be rolling over in Fiddlers Green right about now.

So then, which pencil neck at Group or wherever it is called, was negligent in their duties and did not ensure that all the I's were dotted and the T's crossed when assigning the OinC. Somewhere in the wonderful world of the bureaucracy, sombody screwed this CPO by not doing THEIR job. How long has he been at this Station ???? Does not the Group Commander or even the District Commander hold some responsibility to ensure that stations are properly manned and "certified" ???

Yes, my blood pressure is up on this particular management FUBAR. Bloody feather merchants.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mastersmate,

My experience w/ CG Officers is that they generally have enough humility to give those Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) who have the experience they lack the benefit of the doubt on decisions affecting their respective areas of expertise. Although, I have heard more and more complaints the past few years from my USCG sources regarding a lack of operational experience amongst the Officer Corps at these new Sectors with the resulting leadership challenges. Perhaps then, previously the difference was they had just enough experience to understand they did not know everything whereas today they are far more desk-bound in their orientation...with the end result as being more prone to be critical of enlisted SMEs on matters they have no training or experience in.

As a trained Merchant Marine Officer, I was always taught as a young lad that, while your Chief Engineer was under your Command, it behooved you to let him run his department as he saw fit and to not second-guess his decisions on matters concerning marine engineering and machinery.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1110,

This stuff is very clear in the BOAT Manuals. For you old-timers, we now have Station, Heavy WX Stations and Surf Stations. The designation of the station determines the conditions that the unit can operate in, not the limitations of the 47MLB. Lot's of stuff I'm not covering, in detail. But the phrase "once a "Chief always a Chief" doesn't count in the Surf community "Once a Surfman always a Surfman." Meaning you will always be a Surfman, but if your not at a Surf Unit where you can properly re-certify and maintain your currency, you lose the ablility to operate the 47 in those conditions.
In a real SAR case situation, just a call to your Sector Commander and a quick chat between him and the OIC will usually get a 47 the ability to get on scene.

Seriously, just scraping the surface! I don't beleive this to be ALL on the Sector. In all situations the OIC has to take some responsibility. That is our job, total accountability!

BMCS Z

And did this Chief become "spontaneously stupid" between his last paperwork certification and his current assignment ???

When the boat crew training manual was re-written in about 1983, the newer qualifications of 'heavy weather' and 'surfman' were formalized. The manual was the guideline to performing those tasks.

Since then, it has evolved into the 'book of boats' and MUST be the only way things can be done. This is symptomatic of the entire current operation of your agency. If it is not covered by the paperwork, hang 'em. The professional skill of the coxswain doesn't count unless the paperwork is done and correct.

Sorry, not gonna buy your line Chief. This is another B.S. senior officer, cover your azz at any costs. Senior management really holds very little credibility anymore, and this is a prime example.

I was reading the comments at that link. There are 35 of them at the moment. Some CG person with a screen name of "Rawfish" is answering the comments made by others. Almost seems like damage control in the local public relations area. This sounds similar to the other relief a few years back where the local community was upset with the CG (Chincoteague??). As always, there's likely 2 or 3 sides to this.

The reason us old timers survived is that we were to dumb to know the difference between the surf and heavy weather.

At Merrimack River, we went out the river, through the surf, to get to the heavy weather.

I guess we shouldn't have done that.

quote:

At Merrimack River, we went out the river, through the surf, to get to the heavy weather.

I guess we shouldn't have done that

You should have stopped before you got to the surf and took on a surfman and heavy weather coxswain trained for river,surf and heavy weather ops.

quote:

You should have stopped before you got to the surf and took on a surfman and heavy weather coxswain trained for river,surf and heavy weather ops.

Good Cripes on a crutch what the #*%& was we thinking.

Those "paper work designations" weren't even a sparkle in someones eye back then. I guess the qualification as Coxswain and the inate boat handling skills that were learned and perfected would never fly. But today, just like the proper application of the CHARMIN, no job is complete unless the paperwork is complete.

I still smell a cover your azz by the Group and District chowderheads. Absolute BullShlitz.

Perhaps those shore bound maritime people ought to be relieving all those large cutter COs that are using enlistedmen as underway and inport deck watch officers, for the convenience of a relaxed watch schedule, in conflict with CG regulations.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mastersmate,

quote:

Originally posted by JoeJester:

quote:

Simple, sensible seamanship would have dictated a prompt return to the station. A tiny craft, no compass, and the vast and rampaging sea. Ridiculous. But "rescue" is the word that scrubs common sense, abolishes reason, wipes out calculation and leaves nothing but courage and a refusal to quit. The rescue was made, and even that was incredible.
John A. Ullman, RESCUE 36300, http://www.cg36500.org/rescue.html

I beleive this total incident is malarky, but I will be the devil's advocate. This was training not a SAR case. As someone stated above a call to get approval would have alleviated any issues, but it wasn't to my knowledge. As an OIC he knew he should have had the paperwork/TMT approved, it is required to be done within your first six months as it is a HWX station. As this billet was being shopped next year anyways I am assuming he has been there a few years. The OIC attest to everyone meeting there certification every six months by signing the AOPS currency report and the Sector Commander or response chief signs the OIC's. It isn't like the OIC doesn't know what he is and isn't certified in deosn't mean if he has been previously certified or not. If it isn't within the current cycle it doesn't mean squat. Just throwing it out there, not putting the blame on anyone, just stating basic facts and a little guessing. Somewhere the ball was dropped but I don't know where. Personal opinion would be the Sector Commander or his delegated authority. How many RFO's and STAN visit has the unit had and this has not been picked up on.

Stirring the Pot, Stirring the Pot

" The fact of the matter is that the OIC is not qualified for what he did putting members in danger. So therefore needs to be put in his place regardless of if he is a good guy or if the community loves him, simple judgement call is all that was warranted. He failed due to the fact he was not qualified in Montauk's AOR/D1. That is the issue. I am not only a Guard member of Long Island, but I have been a resisdent my whole life."


Sounds an awful lot like the comment made by someone using 'boatdriver1' on the news papers comment site.

You happen to be his XPO ???

Steezno -- Let me see if I understand this.. If this BMC was a certified surfman at Station Cape D., and get transferred to NY, you feel his surfman status is null & void?

I don't know all the details, like how long he has been stationed in NY, or how recently his surfman quals had been used. I'm just asking the question...

Wray...

Ok, everyone is "monday morning quarterbacking" so I will throw my nickel in.

Let's see, an OIC took the initiative to conduct some good quality training, no one got hurt, people learned some valuable skills for possible future operations and he got canned for not "going by the book". Honestly, he should have received an "atta boy" for taking the initiative to conduct the training.

With that being said, there are always 3 sides to a story, his side, his command side, and the middle.

One more thing to side with the OIC, how many people know of LEDETs and now MSSTs going to SWAT competitions? Those aren't "approved" courses of fire? Yet nobody is getting "canned" for that? Oh, that's right, it is GOOD TRAINING!

Enough of my ranting.

GUNS