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Military.com Forums Travel General Travel Discussion 'Links' with Am. Military, and South Africa (the country)|
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A South African resident |
Introduction
In my profile I mention having a large interest in the USA (mainly space program, culture and tourist attractions), and some in the American military, especially Air Force then Army (& South African ones). I’ll tell more about that here. As a child I had a strong desire to be a pilot here in the South African Air Force for a couple of years. Then, move to the USA and be a pilot in the USAF for a couple of years. Then, be a Space Shuttle pilot. But, that just turned out to be a fantasy. It would have been nice to do those. (But, apparently Space Shuttle pilots are usually chosen from Navy pilots. Mark Shuttleworth became the first South African in space, in 2002, lifting off from Russia. He should have gone in the Space Shuttle later, due to his last name, being ‘worth’ a trip.  I know of a relative.) So, I once bought two of the old green USAF shirts from a military surplus store. In those days, 1991, those types of shirts were not allowed to be sold with the patches on. (A different era here, then.) Since then, I've always wanted to replace them with the same, or similar, ones. I have them all now, since my visit to the USA in October 2005. It includes mainly expressing that above desire I once had. In December 1980 and January 1981 I visited Germany (and overseas) for the first time. Most of the time I stayed at my uncle’s place near Cologne. He is my father’s brother, and my father was from Germany. My uncle was a fire chief at a joint German/American Air Force base. He once took me there, which is on the way to Aachen. It’s probably Noervenich AB. It’s the same famous one where some German Starfighters once crashed. My uncle speaks very little English. So, he never chatted much to the Americans. He said there’d be interpreters for when they needed to. An American, at that base, asked me if South Africa has an air force. I said yes. (In 1995 there was an International Air Show at Pretoria, which I went to. It included aircraft from some foreign air forces, like England (Red Arrows), Canada, USA, and so on. The USAF had two F-16s. It seemed like they were based at the same Air Force base in Germany, or probably at nearby Spangdahlem Air Base.) Anyway, for the rest of the time I stayed at a German friend’s place near Nurembourg. One evening he took me to a nearby American Army base, called Herzo Artillery Base. We were at the recreation center, and played 10-pin bowls. (I tried it, for the first time. Anyone good at it, in Germany, should try the German equivalent, i.e. 9-pin bowls at a Kegelbahn. Oh my gosh! It sure is difficult. The person would struggle the first couple of times. For instance, the bowling ball is almost the same, without the finger holes. The lanes are also very narrow, and longer. It widens just before the skittles.) It was quite overwhelming for me, being there. Up until that moment, it was difficult for me to believe that I really was in Germany. I thought maybe it was a dream, someone playing tricks on me, or something. Think about it – you get into an airplane, that’s into a large room with rows of seats, and then sit down. Twelve hours later (the flying time) you’re at another part of the world. It’s not easy to comprehend that, as it's too quick. At the base, I thought that the American military isn’t in South Africa. So, I finally realized that I really was in Germany. It was then, with broadmindedness and lateral thinking that I started thinking that it would be a good idea for there to be American Military bases in South Africa. There can be all 4 – Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. They can include accompanying civilian families and workers. (I've sewn certain American Army patches onto 2 brown former local Army shirts I have, to mainly symbolically illustrate it. Like with the green shirts, it would be far more for personal reasons, than for displaying to others. (I'd e.g. wear them under jerseys.)It should also be like that with tattoos.) Officially, it can be because of South Africa’s strategic location – being almost at the center of the world’s landmasses. So, there’s quick deployment. (By Boeing 747 from here to almost anywhere in the world takes 12 to 15 hours.) There's a sea route between Europe and Asia. The country also has almost all the climatic regions of the world, in an area about twice the size of Texas. (A world in one country.) So, it would be good for maneuvers. They can also do maneuvers with the local defense force. (But, someone in the Army here told me that the camouflage of the American Military wouldn't work here.) The British Military sometimes comes here for maneuvers. I have read in newspapers that the U.S. Military sometimes comes here to do exercises and maneuvers with the South African Military, which is good. The two militaries have said that they've always had a good working relationship. Once in November 2001 two Tornadoes, of the German Air Force, came here to test weapons. This was because of having good facilities. There’s also the mineral wealth. (It could be a case of helping to defend it.) Unofficially, and the real reason, can be for cultural exchanges. It would be beneficial to both. There have been Americans and South Africans who have said that South Africans are the last nation who still accepts Americans, there should be more cultural exchanges between the two, and that South Africans tend to have a fascination for all things American. At some American Military bases in Germany are friendship/cultural exchange clubs. This can occur in South Africa also. There would be South Africans, military and civilian, who would want to show Americans around. I’m sure it also wouldn’t be long before South African merchandise would land up on the shelves of the American shops (stores) of the bases, like traditional foods, magazines, and newspapers. It’s much the same vice versa. I’m sure that South African celebrities, like singers and comedians, would put on shows there. They must just remember the cultural gaps. Many South Africans would like watching AFN-TV, and see it as another TV channel. (It’s similarly with AFN radio.) I sometimes wondered if AFN stood for Armed Forces Network, instead of American Forces Network. That German friend by Nurembourg also liked watching AFN-TV, and could only receive it in black and white. (I also thought that the Cologne area, for instance, should also have AFN-TV and the Stars and Stripes newspaper for those in the USAF.) Germans say American troops can pull out of Germany. But, keep AFN-TV, and so on. This is because a whole generation has grown up with it. Perhaps it can be privatized, and this time broadcast throughout Germany. It’s the same in South Africa. There can maybe just be it being sent via satellite to here. Sometime in 2007, there was a Dutch war ship here in Cape Town. Outside was Dutch food stalls, etc. One can see the association with military and culture. (This country has little modern Dutch influence.) South Africa should also have good relations with the US, like what had with Taiwan under the previous government here. For example, a few navy ships of theirs would regularly come here. There would be Taiwanese literature available, parades (including demonstrating their excellent rifle drill), the public could show them around (but there were language barriers), and so on. South African and Taiwanese cultures were said to be as far removed as the seas separating them. (The excellent rifle drill makes me think of a military show I went to in 2007. It had marching by an Infantry squad and doing various drill movements without any verbal commands.) I visited Germany again in September and October 1989. At that friend’s place we just went to a golf club, which was next to, and owned by, Herzo Artillery Base. He was a member of it. Also, during that second visit, I went to a pub (saloon) in Frankfurt with a South African theme, called Kyalami. (That’s also the name of the main motor racing track near Johannesburg.) There the Americans, Germans, and South Africans were having a good time together. An African American soldier said that the South Africans were quite friendly. I visited the USA (Seattle, and day trips to Victoria and Vancouver in Canada) in October 2005, and in November 2006 (Florida, with The Bahamas), the continental US diagonal opposites. I am still in favor of these points here. For the American Military bases in South Africa there can be negotiations between the two governments, including then between the two defense forces. Due to defense budget cuts here, some military bases have closed down, and some are about half occupied. So, these could have also been used. The American government has said that host countries should pay some of the great expenditures. Perhaps, in this case, it could be agreed to e.g. pay some of the inconvenience pay. Then a delegation of South African, and a few American, Military people, get sent to some places on a fact-finding mission where there are, and were, American Military bases. It’s places like Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Canada, England, South Korea, Germany (areas where there are, and were), Diego Garcia, Mombasa, Ascension Island, Philippines, and Panama. It’s to see how they are or were, procedures, attitudes of them towards locals and vice versa, and so on. This can include places that did not want American military bases, like India. But, the American Military bases in South Africa are unlikely to occur. One reason is because of the American Military being too spread out. There’s also the large distance for supply ships and planes from the USA. The C-5 Galaxy wouldn’t have the range. South Africa’s government also is against the Iraq and Afghanistan situations. In the previous government, a ruler said that the presence of foreign troops on the African continent wouldn’t be tolerated. (It's these days also, to an extent.) It would be make South Africa an increased security risk. And so on. Anyway, I thought that if my German uncle, and German friend, could be in contact with the American Military then so could I. I was also once in pen pal contact with someone in the American Army (stationed next to the Rio Grande in Texas), and another person in the American Marines. So, those are my ‘links’ with the American Military. A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open Location: Cape Town, South Africa This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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A South African resident |
Just imagine.
Let’s say the scene is a U.S. Army base in Germany. The place is a hive of activity, with various items being loaded onto trucks, and the trucks driving out. A squad marches to a hall, drilled by a Drill Sergeant. (At the military here, that would usually be a Corporal.) They fall out, go into the hall, and sit down on chairs by tables. There are forms for them to fill in. A Major speaks, “Right, as you know, we are pulling out here, and this base will close down. Some of you will transfer to a new destination for the American military, namely South Africa.” There is a lot of murmuring amongst those seated. ”Imagine that, American G.I.’s stationed in South Africa!” says one of them. “Listen up.” continues the Major. “You must fill out the form, including if you have personal problems at home. From that, we can determine who will be stationed there. Is there anyone who wants to be stationed in South Africa?" A few put up their hands. "Okay, indicate that on the form, and you'll get first preference. Now, many will be selected because of being introverted, eager to learn including about other countries, quite intelligent, good behavior and service, serve as good ambassadors to your country, like traveling, broadminded, lateral thinking, and so on. Remember that here in Germany you are serving as ambassadors to your country. Also, those of you with cars could have them driven by your families to Hamburg, and then taken abroad a ship. It has been agreed with South Africa that you can keep the license plates. But, you’ll need to add a USA nationality sticker on the back if that isn’t clear on the plate itself. Remember that it’s driving on the other side of the road, like in England and Japan.” So, the soldiers fill in the form. The Major comes around collecting them. He reads one that a certain Private Smith filled in. “No problems, South Africa.” A little later, the squad marches back to their barracks. A few days later they get told who’s going where. As the days go by, those going to other destinations would pack up, take their kit to the trucks, get on the trucks, and be driven to the American Military section at Frankfurt airport. Those left are going to South Africa. One morning they form into a squad, then march to the hall. The Sergeant then says, “Okay fall out, and stand over there (indicating, about 6 meters away). Those who don’t want to go to South Africa, stay where you are.” The Major is also there. So, everyone stands the other side, except for Private Smith. The Sergeant and Major walk up to him. “Oh man! I don’t want to go to South Africa! There’re lions roaming the streets, houses on stilts.” The Sergeant replies, “You will like it there. And, none of those things are true.” “Yeah ok, I will go.” He joins the others. They go into the hall, and sit down. In front of them, on the stage, is a large map of South Africa. The Major is standing there, with an unfamiliar person, in an unfamiliar military outfit. The Major says, “Okay we will tell you things about the country. This is Major van Rensburg of the South African Army. He will tell you some things about the country in general, and their military, which you’ll be working with. You will have to listen carefully, as he speaks with a South African accent, which isn’t always easy to follow. He says that our American accents also aren’t always easy to follow. Afterwards you can ask him questions. After that I’ll tell you about the American military there, and then you can ask me questions. Over to you.” The lectures continue for quite awhile. Later, they march back to the barracks. A few days later, they load their kit onto trucks, get onto the trucks, and get taken to the American Military section of Frankfurt airport. There is a USAF Boeing 747-400 awaiting, looking much like Air Force One. Their kit goes abroad, followed by them. Various other items are also loaded. The plane departs. ”Well, this is it. Good bye Germany and hello South Africa.” says one of the American soldiers. “The flying time is 15 hours, and we’ll be going around the bulge of Africa.” This is announced over the intercom. Out the window, down below, they see France, then southern Spain and Portugal, then ocean the rest of the way. They also see the islands of Las Palmas, Ascension, and Saint Helena. Later, the destination starts approaching. “We are now flying over South African territorial waters.” This gets announced. Soon afterwards, two Cheetahs (fighter jets) of the South African Air Force, approach. ”There are some mean looking jets.” says one of the American soldiers. "Welcome to sunny South Africa." says one of the pilots, which is sent over the intercom. They fly next to the Boeing. The planes land, a little later. Anyway, three years go by. It is time for that unit to the relocated elsewhere, perhaps back to the USA. Private Smith, “Oh man! I don’t want to go!” A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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A South African resident |
The bulge
One can imagine, as like a sub-plot of this story, inside that USAF Boeing 747-400 two of the American G.I. soldiers are having a conversation. “This plane certainly looks a lot like Air Force One.” “Oh yes. But, that’s just on the outside. It also has 'U.S. Air Force', instead of 'United States of America'". “Pity. Why are we going around the bulge of Africa, and not across the African continent?” “Well, that’s because we are the American Military. Some African countries dislike us, we don’t have permission to fly over all the countries, and some would even see us as a threat and might want to shoot us down. It’s probably mainly the Islamic countries." "They would be looking for trouble." "Our families, and civilian workers, who are also flying to South Africa, are traveling in civilian Boeing 747s, of Lufthansa and South African Airways. Those are flying across the continent, and taking 12 hours.” “Amazing. Oh well, we have to endure an extra 3 hours, and see ocean out the window all the time.” “In the days of the previous South African government their airline also flew around the bulge of Africa, instead of across the continent, for much the same reasons. That was when traveling to Europe and Israel. These days whenever military aircraft fly between Europe and South Africa, which includes for air shows and such like, they always fly around the bulge of Africa.” “Interesting. Wasn’t there supposed to have been a squadron of USAF F-16s flying with us to South Africa?” “There was, yes. A tanker would have flown with, and they would’ve re-fueled every two and a half hours at high altitude. It’s every two hours at low altitude. However, they are going in the cargo holds of a few of our naval ships. That’s because it can be unpleasant for a pilot sitting awake in a cramped cockpit for 15 hours. Besides, it saves on aircraft wear and tear, and on fuel. The pilots will also be on the ships. The tanker is still going to fly down. This was all recommended by the South African Air Force, which is interesting.” “I certainly wouldn’t want to fly like that. Couldn’t those F-16s have gone on an aircraft carrier?” “Not really. The carriers don’t have the storage space. Yeah, the planes also would not have been able to use the runways, anyway.” “Oh look, a flight attendant is bringing things to drink, including beers. I see it includes a South African beer, Castle Lager.” “Let's try it. I see that they are having South African music, and showing a South African comedy movie. It’s by a comedian Leon Schuster, and is called ‘Oh Schucks I’m Gatvol’. ‘Gatvol’ means ‘fed up’. It includes mocking Saddam I think it is. It should be good. This Saddam calls George Bush ‘little Bush’. Oh well, it’s a way of starting to get used to South Africa. You know, I heard that their equivalent in popularity of apple pie is milk tart, and tastes nice. Milk tart is also similar to our Pumpkin Pie. It can be a case of having a feast with American and South African pies and tarts. Another South African example is Pumpkin Fritters, and a few other pumpkin recipes. We should learn about the country in general, like with Germany. That way we will also be learning things about the USA, seeing it from another perspective.” A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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A South African resident |
This thread
I’ll mention some things about the country in general. Some of it is for comparisons between South Africa and the USA. What is mentioned about South Africa, one can also think about how it compares to the USA. This thread is mainly for the American, and then South African, reader. I’ll also include a few things about Namibia. I like Namibia, and went on a train tour of it in May 2003. I intend visiting there again. This thread is all factual, and opinions. Some of it may be outdated. There is no intentional BS, incorrect information, or misinformation. I've been planning something like this thread since 1981. This thread is also like an Amusement Park, with me having add-ons, and then there being more rides into knowledge. A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open Location: Cape Town, South Africa This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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A South African resident |
Do you speaks Souf Effrican? (That’s South African English.)
December 19 2003 at 10:18AM The Argus <http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=22&click_id=1906> Ag One of the most useful South African words. Pronounced like "ach" in the German achtung, it can be used to start a reply when you are asked a tricky question, as in: "Ag, I don t know." Or a sense of resignation: "Ag, I'll have to do it tomorrow." Braai A backyard barbecue that will take place whatever the weather. So you will have to go even if it's raining like mad and hang of a cold. Biltong Similar to jerky, it is dried, salted meat and can be made from beef, ostrich, antelope or anything that was once alive and fairly large. Doos Pronounced doers with a silent r. A doos is a carton but is used to refer to someone as an idiot. "Yislaaik, that ou (see oke) is a doos." Not to be used by foreigners as it also has anatomical connotations. Izit? Derived from the two words is and it, it can be used when you have nothing to contribute. If someone tells you at the braai: "The Russians will succeed in their bid for capitalism once they adopt a work ethic and respect for private ownership," it is appropriate to respond by saying: "Izit?" Jawellnofine Another conversation fall-back word. Derived from yes, well, no and fine, it means roughly "how about that". If your bank manager tells you your account is overdrawn, you say: "jawellnofine." Jislaaik! Pronounced Yis-like, it is an expression of astonishment. For instance, if someone tells you there are a billion people in China, a suitable comment is: "Jislaaik, that's a hang of a lot of people, hey." Just now (Also 'Now now'.) Universally used, it means eventually and sometimes never. If someone says he will do something just now it could be in 10 minutes or tomorrow. Or maybe not at all. Oke A guy, chap or bloke. If you quite like someone you can say: "Ag, he's an OK oke." Instead of oke you can also say ou, pronounced "Oh". (There's also okie. (Another is china, like 'Howzit my china'.)) Shame This can mean the opposite of its meaning in other parts of the world. If someone shows you a baby, you can say: "Ag, shame." This does not mean that the baby is ugly, it means the baby is cute. If the baby is ugly, it is more accurate to say: "Shame, hey." If the baby is truly hideous, it is appropriate to say: "Jislaaik." This may not be appreciated by the baby's parents. Vrot A wonderful word that means rotten or putrid in Afrikaans, it is used by all language groups to describe anything they really don't like. Most commonly it describes fruit or vegetables whose shelf life has long expired, but a pair of takkies (sneakers) worn a few times too often can be termed vrot. Available in full at Cape Town Tourism · This article was originally published on page 10 of The Cape Argus (A Cape Town newspaper.) <http://capeargus.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=312459> on December 19, 2003 A few more: Lekker A commonly used word, which means nice in Afrikaans. It can be a sentence like “I had a lekker day.” (It actually means 'very nice', in these usages.) Sis There’s also “sies”. It’s an expression of disgust, like “Yuck”. It is not the abbreviation for “sister”. (It is rude when referring to food.) Howzit It’s a greeting, like “hello” or “hi”. Voetsak This is pronounced “foot sack”. It means to go away, the same as “Beat it”. It’s also very effective. Hold thumbs This is for good luck, the same as crossing fingers. Robot It is sometimes used instead of traffic light. For instance, "Turn left at the robot". A couple of This is generally used to mean ‘a few’ not ‘two’. For instance, “Give me a couple of minutes” would mean wait a few minutes for me. It can also be used, for instance, with buying fruit, like “I will have a couple of bananas, please.” Offload This means to unload. So long This means ‘goodbye’ or ‘cheers’ and has the connotation “we will see you again soon”. It also means “in the mean time” and can be used in “I am going home so long” indicating that the person is going home while you, in the mean time, will do something else. Kraal A protective fence around a community of huts. Also, an animal enclosure. Packet A bag. Middle line The stripe in the center of a road. (In the USA, it'd be yellow, with white lines at the sides of the road. In many other places, it'd be white, with yellow lines at the sides of the road.) Boyfriend and Girlfriend These are always lovers, not just friends. Sentence examples Examples of two good sentences in South African English are, “I had a lekker day at the braai, eating boerewors and biltong. I drove there in my bakkie, wore my takkies, and turned left at the robot.” That is, “I had a nice day at the barbeque, eating farmer sausage and dried meat. I drove there in my utility vehicle, wore my sneakers, and made a left at the traffic light.” Pronunciation Good examples of South African pronunciations are words like Volkswagen, first names like Gideon, and last names (surnames) like Botha, van der Merwe, Grobbelaar, Labuschagne, and so on, being the Dutch/Afrikaans way. (Perhaps if Dutch from the New York State area hadn’t died out in the USA then American pronunciations would have included these.) Close to this area I’m at, is an Afrikaans accent called the Malmesbury accent, where they roll the R’s. That is even when speaking English. An example is ‘very’ pronounced as ‘verrry’. One can imagine them with the tongue-twister “’Round the rugged rock the rugged rascal ran”. (A good example of Australian English, is the song 'Waltzing Matilda' (Billabong - pool of deep water).) A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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A South African resident |
Some comparisons and points
I'd say that this country, South Africa, and the USA and more alike than different, and can learn a lot from each other (especially if applying broadmindedness and lateral thinking). Like with similar histories, cultures, ways of thinking. Both countries have a mixture and harmonizing of nations. There also seems to be quite a few people in both countries with patriotic isolation ways of thinking. But, isolation doesn't work. For instance, this country knows from experience, as do I in my personal life. (Communist countries also had, and have, isolation.) Those in earth's orbit would often initially pick out individual countries, and then later see the world as a whole. There was a time when this country was supposedly linked to Nazi Germany, with imperial desires, and preying on other countries. (Most Apartheid atrocities occurred outside this country's borders.) Of course, it was denied, with things like a war on terrorism and against foreign dictatorships (in that case communism). They also said others were picking a lot, on the country. (It was also mentioned that the 2 countries who picked the most on South Africa, namely the USA and Australia, had the most to hide.) In those days the USA, especially the government, had a lot to say about it. Now, it looks like it's vice versa. Over here, only after the change of government was it discovered that there was some truth in the accusations. History tends to repeat itself. Also, in those days this country's military had good fighting experience against guerrilla hit-and-run warfare. It's much like what's happening in Iraq now. Instead of our two countries, especially the governments, being so much at odds with each other - should rather work with each other, learn things from each other. It looks like what happens to South Africa or the USA, also happens to the other country. An example is that in 1994 both countries moved more towards the international community. In South Africa it was the democratic elections, and in the USA it was the soccer world cup. (Some of it in the USA was reversed with September 11th.) Other examples are the dropping currency (irrespective of the reasons for each), and affirmative action. The oldest human fossils have been found in this country. (Also.) That would make this country the cradle of humanity, not Iraq. (Personally I don't believe either, and reckon there were various cradles of humanity.) Outsiders are drawn to the lifestyle, the scenery and the culture here. South Africa is said to be a unique country and culture. The most striking thing about the country is its mixture of races. It's also said that this country is filled with such incredible and beautiful cultures. (Much like the USA, no doubt. South Africa is also more multicultural than the USA.) Also a reason for Apartheid was not understanding the other's culture. For example, with whites you must look at the master when he speaks to you and with blacks must look away (like in the military ), with whites the woman enters (or entered) at a door first and with blacks the man enters first, with whites must have a conversation quietly and with blacks must speak loud so others don't reckon you're gossiping, with whites a firm handshake and with blacks a soft and different handshake (A nice one actually.), blacks not having 'please' in their languages (therefore not using it in English and Afrikaans), and so on. (I guess it's much like 'cultural' misunderstandings between men and women.)It is said that we are spoilt in this country. For example, at Service Stations attendants put petrol (gasoline) in your car etc., and not you. Also, traffic cops aren’t so strict. Another is that when waiting at an airport for a flight, there would be an announcement like “This is the first boarding call for flight 312 to New York. Passengers please start boarding from Gate 12.” Later would e.g. be “This is the final boarding call for flight 312 to New York. Passengers please board from Gate 12.” Overseas in 2005 I would be waiting for those announcements, and my name would be announced to board. Public transport is bad here, like in e.g. Florida, USA. (It’s good in, e.g. Seattle.) What there is a lot here, on main roads along fixed routes during the day, with the other races, are mini-bus taxis. They often toot, and shout their destinations, for customers. They're very enthusiastic about getting customers. In Johannesburg, one shows a certain hand signal for a certain destination. The drivers are usually bad, e.g. driving fast, and stopping anywhere. Houses here, of the middle-income group, usually look the same. For instance, single storied, about the same size, pointed roof (often black), brick, and no cellar or attic. In the USA I was amazed at how different many of the houses look, to each other. (Incidentally, outsiders generally say that the USA is very money-orientated, as opposed to e.g. people-orientated. An example is houses built along those lines, instead of for safety and comfort, and the USA has all those natural disasters like hurricanes. Outsiders also say that Americans like running to court. There's also being astonished at, e.g. children scolding parents.) The legend and history of Cape Town, the Tavern of the Seas, is richer than any other South African city, and culturally far more complex, diverse and vibrant. Cape Town also has its own language. I guess one could call some of it Capetonian English. It also has its own people and idiosyncrasies. Incidentally, here in parts of Cape Town are gangs. The largest and most notorious are called the Americans. In the Apartheid era (and today, to an extent), other races also had a fascination for the USA. A reason was the USA being a symbol of freedom, and democracy. South Africans are very brand conscious. For instance, with a glue brand Bostik, would talk about sticking something together with Bostik instead of glue. In South African legislation, no exposed weapons are allowed. It's the opposite to the USA with no concealed weapons. Also, no electric plugs and light switches are allowed in bathrooms in homes. The light switches are immediately outside. Quite a few South Africans despise what is local, and chase after foreign fads that come along. So, there’s the Proudly South African campaign. In 1983, a Port Elizabeth (where I grew up) newspaper had an article titled, “Fancy yourself a Yankee South African?” It was about the possibility of South Africa becoming part of the USA, the 51st state. It was said that South Africa is too geographically removed from the USA, i.e. too far away from it. One could have South Africa on an American Commonwealth, like with the British Commonwealth. South Africa would then not be closely linked to the USA, unlike Puerto Rico. South Africa then still also remains on the British Commonwealth, and is still a republic. Over here are place names, mostly towns and suburbs, like Brooklyn, Richmond, Montana, Virginia, Orlando, Broadway, Buffalo, Carolina, Florida, Columbine Square, and Phoenix. There's also the town Atlantis. South Africa has a research base at Antartica, called SANAE. Two history websites. Here are some general information websites. Here are some sites having something to do with cultural. Here are examples of South African indigenous games. A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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Posting Priviledges Removed |
that is some fascinating info..never was very much interested in learning much about south africa..very much into the boycott most of my life, and that included reading anything about it because so much literature that was white was so biased, but now that things have changed i really do need to make up for my ignorance in this area.
Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion. -Eisenhower |
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A South African resident |
Response to boycotts
I'll try not to be racially biased here. It's typical of human nature to focus on negative things. I prefer to focus on positive things. There were probably many Americans who boycotted racially biased literature from here. Yet, they probably would have read such literature from elsewhere, including local. In September 1989 when I was in Germany, an American said that he wouldn't want to visit South Africa because he'd be supporting something. Yet, he'd probably visited East Berlin. I heard a good saying: Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people. I prefer talking about ideas, always have. In 1981, at that base, I had a way of thinking ahead of its time - still is. The picture is symbolic of overcoming confines of earth including the politics, economics, status, egotisms, prejudices, geographical distances, limited ways of thinking, ignorance, etc. To help overcome the great distances between the USA and South Africa, it would be nice if sometime in the future there could be regular, inexpensive and very fast flights between the two. These would take off and fly as high as possible on jet power. They would then go into low earth’s orbit. About 20 minutes later, when approaching the destination, they’d begin re-entry. The trip should be between the two cities furthest apart. In this case, it would be Seattle and Durban. This is so as not to begin re-entry too soon, and to spend longer time in orbit. There could also be these sorts of flights between the USA and Australia. This time, it would be between Boston and Perth, and after about 25 minutes beginning re-entry. If going the other way, it would be between Seattle and Sydney or Melbourne. It is said that in the olden days there would be conquests in order to spread ones culture, ways of thinking, etc. That mindset is changing now, with e.g. television, books, internet, etc. One can say that my way of thinking at that base was like a transition between the two. It’s also a case of cultural exchanges between the two, as if there were American Military bases here, or without the war element. A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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A South African resident |
Alternate USA
Some people here on this forum have wondered about how the USA would be today if a certain historical event didn't occur, some other event occurred, and so on. An example is the War of Independence. Canada, which is still linked to Britain, can give one an idea of how the USA would be if it were still linked to Britain. In American history Native Americans were greatly massacred, them and their cultures. For example when Christopher Columbus came to the Americas there were 500 Native American nations on the North American continent. Today, in the USA there are less than 50. Another example is that Native Americans were not allowed east of the Mississippi river. Now, I'm not pointing fingers, or anything. I'm just saying. So, I was wondering how would the USA (and Canada, for that matter) be today, if these never occurred, or to a much lesser degree, and Native Americans were the majority. (Not if the Native Americans won the war and if the westerners were driven out, but if the massacres by the westerners towards the Native Americans was much less, or never occurred.) Perhaps it would be a case of a Native American President (with Europeans and other races in the government); former Presidents like Abraham Lincoln seen in a negative way; some streets, cities, towns, and so on being renamed; airports being renamed, for instance J.F. Kennedy Airport called New York International Airport; the states being different (e.g. different names, boundaries, amount - all in the same area of the Continental USA); the flag being changed; reconciliation between the Native Americans and Europeans; and so on. (Places with Native American names remaining the same, e.g. Seattle, Miami.) This is how it is now, here in South Africa. The USA could have the best of American and Native American cultures (e.g. have teepees in the yards of homes). It’s a good symbolism that one of the furthest states away from the 13 originals, i.e. Washington State, named after the founder of the USA, has its largest city, Seattle, named after the Native American chief. It’s as if to show that the Native American nation should have been included in the American nation right from the start. (Incidentally, there's a town here called White River, which I thought sounded Native American.) There was once mention of Native Americans wanting the northern half of the state of Maine. A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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A South African resident |
A few past evictions, and myself
In the days of the previous government here, I never had anything to do with what was happening. I even opposed it. I also grew up in the city Port Elizabeth (nickname The Friendly City), which had one of the strongest oppositions to it in the whole country. An example is that in Johannesburg there was a mixed race suburb called Sophiatown. In the late 1960s it was declared a whites only suburb. Everyone was evicted, and each race had to stay in another suburb allocated to them. The bulldozers then came in and flattened the place. (The Islamic Mosques survived, because it was said that if they were torn down, the entire Islamic world would declare war on South Africa.) It was then completely rebuilt and renamed Triomf (‘Triumph’ in English). The same happened in Cape Town with District Six, which was renamed Zonnebloem (‘Sunshine’ in English). Now, in Port Elizabeth, the same thing occurred to suburbs like South End and Southdene. However, the whites refused to live there. The areas only really started to be rebuilt in about 1995. Even today there's still barren ground and some rubble from those days. The suburbs also kept their names. Not even many people in this country know that. (That last website is to include a photo of myself as a small boy, and my grandfather, with buildings in the background which were demolished then.) These are the 3 best known examples. Yeah, there shouldn't be forced segregation, and there also shouldn't be forced integration. I also prefer not to stereotype, and prefer to regard others as individuals. I don't even consider myself patriotic, and consider myself a citizen of the world. Apartheid is also in the past, which I prefer not to live in. A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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A South African resident |
South African humor
When I was in Germany in 1989, an American asked me if I knew that film "Lethal Weapon 2". I had not. He said they were looking for an enemy country, and could only think of South Africa. He also said that he doubts that film would be shown in South Africa, for that reason. When I returned to South Africa I mentioned that to someone here. He said that it would be shown here, because we can laugh at ourselves. (That's mainly what South African humor is about.) I saw it at the bioscope/cinema/movie theater. It was very popular, people were laughing like mad, and was considered an action/comedy. That supposedly South African accent sounded far more Australian. Incidentally, the South African accent is said to be hard and flat (and guttural). It is also said that some local accents sound Dutch, and some sound British. People here would consider those South Africans as being the 'Wit Wolwe'. ('White Wolves' in English, and is an Afrikaner nationalistic, extremist Right-wing association. Some of those Right-wingers don't want the current new South Africa to be a success.) In around the early 1980s, I wrote to a guy in the US Army, stationed at the Rio Grande in Texas. He had listened to tapes by American comedians like Richard Pryor. I sent him a tape of a South African comedian Joe Parker. I included about 15 pages of terminology explanations, to bridge the cultural gap. (I still have it.) He said that he laughed and coughed throughout, and was the funniest tape he had ever heard. A lot of South Africans mainly just listen to American and local comedians. Afrikaans comedy is more character, more story - driven than English. Incidentally, once an American said to me that South Africa goes from being a very racist country to having a black president. It's like a Hollywood movie. Here is a local humor site, with fictitious news articles. Here is a local comic strip. It sometimes includes the USA. Also, here is a good local website for comics. A mind is like a parachute - it works best when open This message has been edited. Last edited by: RKramp, |
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