quote:

Originally posted by floersh:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:
That, you see, is the downfall of the Right. You put religious dogma on the plane of science.

Go ask your priest to help you get rid of that rash...Bet he sends you to a doctor.

Ya think drug use in the military is not allowed because a priest ruled it immoral?

If science had anything to do with it, it would have been banned back in the 80s or 90s.. long after it was shown to contribute to cancer.

No this is a witch hunt by the majority deamonizing and persecuting a minority. The hollier than thoughs telling the lowers how they should live. Same sheet different day. Science is just their excuess. Its a new religion and new set of priests.

By the way I am atheist and detest preists dictating anything in law.

As for drug use. Its interesting you brought that up. It is the same group trying to deamonize smoking that is trying to legalize drug use. Go figure!! Of course you'll find me siding with the later not with the former.

Which group is trying to demonize smoking in the military?? Are you implying there is a secret group of high ranking Democrats running the show in the military?

The military's position on this comes from a position of health and fitness believe it or not. Every vice you can think of is under review right now. If the Navy doesn't get a handle on the increasing number of DUI's, alcohol will be next.

I remember the Navy proclaiming that all ships would be smoke free by 1999. Well, that year has come and gone and people are still lighting up aboard ship's and subs. Of course the smokers are confined to a single area and on the subs I've been on, it's a pretty undesirable place......then again, most places on a sub are less than pleasent sans TRIDENT or SSGN's.

I guess if civilian companies can mandate a smoke free work force, and enforce it through urine testing, so can the military.

What the heck, started the gum thing today......

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:
What the heck, started the gum thing today......

You'll be ready for the tobacco free military

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:
What the heck, started the gum thing today......

You'll be ready for the tobacco free military

Maybe, but I would rather it be through discouraging it vice making it illegal.

(insert sounds of rapid gum chewing here)

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

Which group is trying to demonize smoking in the military??

The same group doing so in the civilian world.

Everything has to be about political parties for you doesn't it? You can't handle it when its a plain old freedom thing irrespective of parties?

As for the health and fitness. Health or rather medical benefits may well be a valid reason. Long term care costs per-say. But fitness is laughable. The military has physical fitness standards. If a person meets said standards smoker or not then the idea that physical fitness of smokers is a problem is absurd.

If they want to raise the standard then they can do so without implementing a ban on smoking. Simply set the standard higher and it will impact everyone evenly without discrimination.

But ultimately when you get through all the BS it comes down to nanny has taken responsibility for your care and thus nanny is going to dictate how you live. And that means you can be assured that salt, red meat, and sugar are next on the list as obesity, high blood preasure, and diabeties are the next major health care issues facing their budgets.

And once we get universal health care we can all expect the exact same laws to be applied to the rest of us under nanny's care.

quote:

But ultimately when you get through all the BS it comes down to nanny has taken responsibility for your care and thus nanny is going to dictate how you live.

...and welcome to the Uniformed Service in these United States.

Looks to me like you're calling for another Don't Ask Don't Tell for smokers.

...and it's not nanny, it's Your Momma.

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:
What the heck, started the gum thing today......

You'll be ready for the tobacco free military

Maybe, but I would rather it be through discouraging it vice making it illegal.

(insert sounds of rapid gum chewing here)

Oh they're discouraging it.

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

Looks to me like you're calling for another Don't Ask Don't Tell for smokers.

Nothing of the sort. An individual should have the freedom to make his/her own choices. If the military wants fitness standards then set the standard. No need to ban anything. If smoking effects their fitness then they wont meet the standard now will they?

On the other hand. How they deal with medical coverage is up to them. Banning smoking seems a draconian way of doing it. Probably easier to have smokers sign waviers of coverage for certain things and or charge smokers a higher premium or something. Then once again its their choice.

But thats not what they are doing which just proves the point is that big brother is simply trying to tell you how to live. To live like they want you to live.

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:
What the heck, started the gum thing today......

You'll be ready for the tobacco free military

Maybe, but I would rather it be through discouraging it vice making it illegal.

(insert sounds of rapid gum chewing here)

Oh they're discouraging it.

Yeah...that discouraging it thing is brand new...

quote:

Caution: Cigarette Smoking May be Hazardous to Your Health (1966-1970)
Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined that Cigarette Smoking is Dangerous to Your Health (1970-1985)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy. (1985-)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Quitting Smoking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health. (1985-)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking By Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, And Low Birth Weight. (1985-)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide. (1985-)

...and obviously working like a charm.

quote:

Originally posted by floersh:

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

Which group is trying to demonize smoking in the military??

The same group doing so in the civilian world.

Everything has to be about political parties for you doesn't it? You can't handle it when its a plain old freedom thing irrespective of parties?

As for the health and fitness. Health or rather medical benefits may well be a valid reason. Long term care costs per-say. But fitness is laughable. The military has physical fitness standards. If a person meets said standards smoker or not then the idea that physical fitness of smokers is a problem is absurd.

If they want to raise the standard then they can do so without implementing a ban on smoking. Simply set the standard higher and it will impact everyone evenly without discrimination.

But ultimately when you get through all the BS it comes down to nanny has taken responsibility for your care and thus nanny is going to dictate how you live. And that means you can be assured that salt, red meat, and sugar are next on the list as obesity, high blood preasure, and diabeties are the next major health care issues facing their budgets.

And once we get universal health care we can all expect the exact same laws to be applied to the rest of us under nanny's care.

So it's not a particular political party you are referring to. How nice.

As for the rest of you rant. You have a point. The military is doing more and more to encourage a healthy lifestyle. Nothing wrong with that is there? As for the elimination of all tobacco products, it probably is directly related to health care costs. That is a valid argument against allowing it...just as civilian companies are moving towards.

As for the salt and red meat, they're probably next.

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:
What the heck, started the gum thing today......

You'll be ready for the tobacco free military

Maybe, but I would rather it be through discouraging it vice making it illegal.

(insert sounds of rapid gum chewing here)

Oh they're discouraging it.

Yeah...that discouraging it thing is brand new...

quote:

Caution: Cigarette Smoking May be Hazardous to Your Health (1966-1970)
Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined that Cigarette Smoking is Dangerous to Your Health (1970-1985)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy. (1985-)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Quitting Smoking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health. (1985-)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking By Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, And Low Birth Weight. (1985-)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide. (1985-)

...and obviously working like a charm.

The smart ones read and heed the warnings.

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

quote:

But ultimately when you get through all the BS it comes down to nanny has taken responsibility for your care and thus nanny is going to dictate how you live.

...and welcome to the Uniformed Service in these United States.

Looks to me like you're calling for another Don't Ask Don't Tell for smokers.

...and it's not nanny, it's Your Momma.

No, your urine will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

As for the rest of you rant. You have a point. The military is doing more and more to encourage a healthy lifestyle. Nothing wrong with that is there? As for the elimination of all tobacco products, it probably is directly related to health care costs. That is a valid argument against allowing it...just as civilian companies are moving towards..

Well I really don't buy this wanton discrimination. Its one thing in the military or government where your health care is pretty much covered. But in the private sector many employers already pass on some percentage of an employees medical coverage to the employee. If an employer wanted to keep their costs under control they could simply pass on the premium difference between a smoker and non-smoker to the employee. Simple, clean, and uncontroversial.

No.. An employeer choses not to employ you at all for the exact same reasons why an employer wont hire a person with a ring through their nose, a homosexual, an obese individual, even blacks or women. Its discrimination pure and simple. Cost is easy to control but some chose not to go that route because at this point smokers are the one minority its ok to discrimiate against.

Maybe my boat was the exception. We had 159 odd people on board at any given time. More than half of us smoked, including me, there were also a number of chew users(including me again). By my count, of those that I remember, only about 39 people did not smoke and/or chew/dip. Of all the PRT failure we had, only 3 were smokers out of 28.

Smoking areas were one foward, one aft, dip/chew anywhere anytime except birthing and the mess decks. Every person was issued two spit bottles the day they reported aboard, whether they dipped or not.

My smoking and dipping have not thus far impacted my health and ability to maintain an acceptable level of fitness.

Now, that being said, I know it is bad for me in the long run. Hell, I might even quit, I did give up my non-filter camels finally...

If you want people to stop smoking you are likely fighting a lossing battle, as only those who want to quit will. It is not a matter of the physical or mental addiction, but rather a matter of desire. I know, I can and have gone for weeks and even at one time a month and a half without any tabacco at all. I have not quit because frankly, I enjoy it. I don't get grouchy when I go without my smokes. My smoking does not interfere with my work, as I smoke when the work is done or before it is time to start.

Don't ban the smokes and chew. Just enforce the standards for performance, including fitness, work quality, and time on task that are already present. Those who don't make the standards are the problem, not the method by which they fail to meet the standard.

Can't wait only one problem when the military bans smoking but still subjects it's Soldiers to Depleted Uranium, Burn Pits in Iraq/Afghanistan, DEET/Permethrin insecticides, the air along the Mexican American Desert, the Air in Seoul Korea and other areas, and those Soldiers get Cancer what the hell will the military use to excuse it's culpability this time around.

quote:

Perhaps we should applaud a military ban on having sex?

You haven't been deployed recently have you???

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by sw614:
What the heck, started the gum thing today......

You'll be ready for the tobacco free military

Maybe, but I would rather it be through discouraging it vice making it illegal.

(insert sounds of rapid gum chewing here)

Oh they're discouraging it.

Oh, I am sure of that. It was well underway before I retired. IIRC it gained momentum in the late 80s (1 Jan 88?) when smoking was banned in all government buildings.

Smoke free housing is easier to prepare for the next family to follow and the smells will not linger, as it always does. Why do you think that hotel/motels have gone to smoke free rooms?

Smoke outside. Smoke in designated areas. Smoke in town. Don't smoke at all.

quote:

Originally posted by ronald45:

quote:

Perhaps we should applaud a military ban on having sex?

You haven't been deployed recently have you???

Keep it. I was Infantry. The only sex was our wives cheating on us with REMFs.

quote:

As for the rest of you rant. You have a point. The military is doing more and more to encourage a healthy lifestyle. Nothing wrong with that is there? As for the elimination of all tobacco products, it probably is directly related to health care costs. That is a valid argument against allowing it...just as civilian companies are moving towards.

As for the salt and red meat, they're probably next.

That is the point. There is a difference between encouraging and making a particular behavior illegal.

When I was in, I had more people lose time due to sports injury than a smoker who didn't feel well and went to sick call. I can not recall ever missing work because I smoked. I can actually count on one (OK one and a half) hand the number of days I have missed due to illness in the last 36 years.

Salt? Stopped using it years ago.

Red meat? Will never give it up.

This continual march towards others patting us on the head and determining what is in our best interest is getting ridiculous.

Why did I retire, let me count the ways.

Not all military wives cheat. Please don't group all women, who's husband served in that lump. It is not correct nor fair.

quote:

Originally posted by charlie_echo:
Not all military wives cheat. Please don't group all women, who's husband served in that lump. It is not correct nor fair.

Not ALL do. But out of my platoon, almost all did. Don't think I am casting aspirations. I am simply stating facts.

Then state as you did, that it was out of your group. Thank you for your reply.

quote:

Yet another sacrifice one must make to serve their country. What do you think, bad or good idea??? In my opinion, good idea to help smokers quit, probably not a great idea to restrict smokers from serving in the military...much like it's a bad idea to tell gays they can't serve.

Our military is run by commie nazi pigs. When I served, I hated cig smoke (and still do), yet the bastids never gave any consideration about smokers vs nonsmokers when assigning barracks. I had to live, breathe, and sleep with the vile filth that polluted my room air with their smoke. I truly hope that it becomes illegal to not only smoke while in uniform, but anywhere on a military installation as well.

quote:

Originally posted by charlie_echo:
Smoke free housing is easier to prepare for the next family to follow and the smells will not linger, as it always does. Why do you think that hotel/motels have gone to smoke free rooms?

Smoke outside. Smoke in designated areas. Smoke in town. Don't smoke at all.

Never had base housing that smelled of smoke when I moved in. The appliances were cleaned, the floors stripped and waxed and walls painted. What was left to absorb smoke? USAF housing did not have carpet or drapes. Does any housing have them now? It has been 13 years since I lived in housing.

PS - way back when, my wife used to clean hosuing for individuals PCsing and the housing office for those who were "requested" to leave abrubtly, but I understand that the rules concerning the old 'white glove insoection' have been relaxed.

Bad Idea!
There is such a thing as a SMOKELESS cigarrette; it gives all the pleasure of smoking without the effects upon your health.

I can think of a dozen worse things. How about drinking? Are we going to allow that choice to be taken away too? Personnally, I do not drink.
Nor do I smoke now.

Had there been the option of a SMOKELESS Cigarette years ago when I did smoke, I would have taken it. It would have been better for my health.

The point is the choice should be ours, not the ggovernment's. If we continue to allow the government to make our choices for us, all our rights to make decisions for ourselves will disappear, as will our freedom!

So does that mean our (cough) Commander-in-Chief has to stop?

C.R.

Still chewing gum

8 days+

I'm glad to see they're coming to their senses regarding military members smoking in combat. However, for the civilian and contractor workforce on military installations, smokers, in general, take about a 10 minute break every hour to smoke a cigarette where I work. That's about an hour to an hour-and-a-half a day they are not at their desk working, while non-smokers continue to work. Seems fair to me...or else let me leave an hour early each day to make up for the hour in smoke breaks I don't take.

quote:

That's about an hour to an hour-and-a-half a day they are not at their desk working, while non-smokers continue to work.

A good friend of mine in the navy who was a nonsmoker would go with me every time I went for a smoke. no one could/tried to say a word to her about it.

if you're not getting enough breaks, thats your fault for not taking them.