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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Military, Tobacco Free in 20 Years|
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----------------  Proud Member ----------------  |
Two bits of news here. I'm a Liberal, but I don't speak 'for the left' or for anyone but myself. As for rights, we're talking about active duty military personnel--your position that a soldier has some 'right' to smoke holds no water. The uniformed services are restrictive societies by nature and design. Behaviours are dictated as a matter of course--furtherance of good order and discipline and fitness to serve and all that. You got a problem with required physical training interfering with a military man's right to get fat?
That, you see, is the downfall of the Right. You put religious dogma on the plane of science. Go ask your priest to help you get rid of that rash...Bet he sends you to a doctor. Ya think drug use in the military is not allowed because a priest ruled it immoral? Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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---------------- Proud Member ---------------- |
I thought conservatives longed for the good old days when something as immoral as contracting a venereal disease was a violation of Regs... Swimming is the leading cause of drowning in adults. Automobile accidents are the leading cause of death. Twist and expand your way down the slippery slope all day...the Right will never reach bottom. Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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Experienced Member |
That's a pretty backwards argument. Using your logic pretty much anyone could argue against any action. Pre-marital and homosexual sex lead to higher rates of STD's, should that be banned? This is a very slippery slope. Tobacco does kill more people than most all other drugs combined. But alcohol is a close second. So what are we to do? Ban booze too? Soldiers do have rights. Illegal drugs in America are illegal, it makes no difference whether someone is serving in the military or not.
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Proud to be a Christian, gun owning, American veteran and redneck. God bless the USA and our vets! ------------------ Proud Member ------------------  |
Just answer the question, oh Herring of Red. If smoking should be banned because it interferes with the health and readiness of a soldier, should casual sex also be banned? Or driving off duty? Or diving off duty? Defend your own contentions - don't attack mine. It's not that there is no God or that He isn't listening. You're probably just asking the wrong questions. |
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---------------- Proud Member ---------------- |
Soldiers have rights. I get that. The list enumerated in the constitution is not exclusive. I get that too. It's the military--you don't seem to get that. You will dress, cut your hair, and address people you might not respect as Sir or Mam because the Powers That Be have decided that those actions contribute to fitness to serve and good order and discipline. Basic Training 101: Until you hear the words "If you got 'em smoke 'em"--you don't smoke. Funnier than an episode of COPS about drunk drivers would be Basic Trainees arguing their rights to a Drill Sergeant. You lower your level of fitness at the pleasure of your command, or at your legal peril. Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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New Member |
Why do libeals insist on telling me which light bulbs to use, which car to drive, which hamburger to eat, how many drinks of alcohol I can have...etc..etc??
They seem stuck on a simple algorithm: 2+2=Government Color of the Sky= Government Girl turned you down= Government Life liberty and the pursuit of= Government The square root of 9= Government Night out on the town= Government Dusty bunnies under my bed=Government Its outrages how they can seriously talk of condemning and punishing Soldiers for using fine tobacco products. |
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New Member |
As a liberal(your words) you have absolutely no problem with the policy against degenerate behavior of gays right? DADT, because the powers that be decided those actions contribute to fitness and to serve and good order and discipline... |
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10 DAYS SUSPENSION NEMESIS |
The Navy was on this path until the NEX complained that tobacco sales makes up an unbelievably large (and profitable) percentage of their sales.
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New Member |
What the heck is this sign under my name? IRS Agent?
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---------------- Proud Member ---------------- |
My exact words on the subject of DADT can be found here: You might have missed that one. It's restated here. Black/White, Liberal/Conservative, Gay/Straight, Wings Fan/Penguins Fan--the needs of the service come first, and the unique personality component hellbent on defending your right to be an individual and do as you please goes out the door. Military folks who want to succeed in Uniformed Service learn to think that way. I've been out more than 25 years, but I don't forget what it took to get along in the Army. Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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* |
I don't think you're as quick as you think you are. I could be wrong though, right Irwin? |
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------------------- Proud Member Derelict Veterans' Group -------------------  |
I was laughing at the tag. LOL Todays politics remind me of an old saying. - "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" - Joseph Stalin |
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Stillkit  |
Liberals? Perhaps you should do a little research on what that darling of the right, Mike Huckabee, did while Governor of Arkansas and what he supports now. |
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---------------- Proud Member ---------------- |
I've not heard of a proposal to ban sex, driving, or diving off duty. I'd address those individually, though they don't seem likely. The military condemns--and can punish--off-duty behaviours which might be somewhat protected in the civilian world. I believe that STDs were punishable at one time--I don't have a citation, and I'm not sure where I'd look. Patronizing prostitutes, certain cohabitations/fraternizations, drunk driving or accumulating tickets for dangerous behaviour bring consequences in the military on top of or in spite of the findings of a civilian authority...I had an instructor in AIT who was threatened when he couldn't report for duty when his leave ended because of a second-degree sunburn--I don't know how much latitude the modern military has to punish careless behaviour off-duty, but I'd be inclined to think that it's pretty broad. My point on the Liberal Medical Establishment tip is that smoking serves no useful purpose, unlike sex or driving or swimming. I find it difficult--even as a smoker--to defend the action as mine by right, and in the military I don't see it as defensible except as a privilege. Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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Experienced Member ------------------ Proud Member Derelict Veterans Group OF MUNERIS UT TOTUS (Of Service To All) ------------------  |
Don't leave out the obese, got to relax the rules for the obese too.  |
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* |
Wow! Brings back memories. My old platoon sergeant tried to article 15 me after a summer holiday weekend cause I had such a bad sunburn I couldn't get my uniform on and had to go to the clinic to get treated. Never got the artilce 15, but he tried.  |
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Experienced Member |
Bush put the military on this path when he made it illegal for any member of the military to hire a prostitute, even in states or countries where prostitution is legal. For the confused, this proposal is being evaluated by Doctors at the behest of the military, not some liberals. |
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---------------- Proud Member ---------------- |
I think 'Destruction of Government Property' and some half-azzed take on Missing a Troop Movement were the grounds in 79--shaky grounds, but not out of the realm of possibility if the history backed the charge. Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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---------------- Proud Member ---------------- |
Right you are! Who would dare challenge your right to eat as much as you want of whatever you want? Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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First time "offense" and it was in 87...so still playing that game at that time. Maybe even now if they want to because the regs are probably still on the books. |
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." - Pogo  |
Point of interest. Years ago (1950's-60s early 70's) three cases of STD could get you kicked out of the service, and getting a sunburn to the point of not being able to do your duty was considered misconduct and could be punishable by Captain's Mast.
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10 DAYS SUSPENSION NEMESIS |
While I disagree with any push to outlaw tobacco use for members of the military, I have to admit to confusion about why people start up again after boot camp to begin with. After all, you just spent the last 2-4 months quitting a habit that almost all smokers regret. What kind of idiot buys cigarettes after that?
I don't smoke for a lot of reasons, but it boils down to this: although all of the extra time off for smoke breaks seems like a nice treat to this non-smoker, I've never met a smoker who told me I should start. I don't think it should be banned, but I do think y'all were idiots for starting to begin with, and I WILL enforce rules like not smoking anywhere NEAR the rest of us who don't. |
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New Member |
Real men can chain smoke all weekend and still knock out 5 mile runs on Monday's  Either way our boys know what they are doing, they've been smoking since the start of the 20th Century and they have done just fine... |
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10 DAYS SUSPENSION NEMESIS |
I'm not sure how that is a response to what I posted.
Sure they know what they are doing. That makes it MORE idiotic, not less. I bet I can run that same 5 miles later in life than they can... |
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New Member |
Well you go girl... Our boys are the best, and if they want to smoke let them...No need to change the last bastion of good'ole American ruggedness we have left: The US Military. |
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 "88M, CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS CARGO."  |
They can say what they will, but the tobacco restrictions on Ft Wood are easing again. The troops are allowed to have tobacco products in AIT, even have smoking areas out on the Trainng Areas. The gut truck is even carrying smokes and dipping tobacco again.
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Member |
You sound kinda like someone reincarnated. Gonna fess up? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
A pack of cigs are now 6 bucks! What are they doing with the 4 dollars a pack the GOV gets? 8.25 a pack here in NY. That is criminal. |
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Experienced Member |
You don't seem to get the fact that my entire chain of command, right up to the President, use tobacco. Are we going to kick Obama out of office because he smokes? Pretty sure Tommy Franks and Stormin Norman were big tobacco fans, certainly there are a lot of currently serving flag officers who use tobacco. I like how your argument somehow assumes that I'm dependent on the military or that I'm an indentured servant. I can make more money, with less danger in the civilian world. I serve because I enjoy it, I enjoy serving my country. While I don't use tobacco, ideas like this are the kinds of things that would make me get out. If the military wants to get tougher on tobacco use, they should greatly expand their treatment/quitting programs. |
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Experienced Member |
If science had anything to do with it, it would have been banned back in the 80s or 90s.. long after it was shown to contribute to cancer. No this is a witch hunt by the majority deamonizing and persecuting a minority. The hollier than thoughs telling the lowers how they should live. Same sheet different day. Science is just their excuess. Its a new religion and new set of priests. By the way I am atheist and detest preists dictating anything in law. As for drug use. Its interesting you brought that up. It is the same group trying to deamonize smoking that is trying to legalize drug use. Go figure!! Of course you'll find me siding with the later not with the former. |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Military, Tobacco Free in 20 Years
