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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint DOJ HALTS VERIFICATION OF VOTER CITIZENSHIP|
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Highly Experienced Member |
What would be required to obtain said, "free," ID? And, given Georgia's past history with denying minority voting, how is it going to be guaranteed that voter registration and identification will stay, "free," and equal for all? Anyone who is in the least bit familiar with Georgia history instantly realizes that the law abiding citizens of Georgia are not looking to eliminate voter fraud but that neoconservative Republicans in Georgia are looking to limit traditionally Democrat minority voter participation...again. Next... |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Skin, you are getting it really deep in here.....
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." - Pogo  |
So Skinman, what you are really saying is that if the state legislature is controlled by democrats (like Ilinois, who will have another democrat governor going to jail soon)any legislation passed is then pure and clear and wonderful, is that about it? By the way, were those black panthers in Michigan republicans?
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Highly Experienced Member |
Georgia’s attempt to certify citizenship ran afoul of the law
In a letter from the U.S. Justice Department’s Loretta King to Thurbert Baker, Georgia’s attorney general, King an assistant attorney general in the Civil Rights Division, declared the state’s method of verifying citizenship for voting was flawed and ordered the state to cease its citizen verification program. Secretary of State Karen Handel, in a press release, called the DOJ’s decision. “A shocking disregard for the integrity of our elections.” This issue arose last October when Jose Morales registered to vote. Morales became a naturalized citizen in 2007, however, when he first received his driver’s license, Morales, a Kennesaw State student, was only a legal resident. One of the issues the DOJ identified was the inability of the verification process — using Georgia Department of Driver Services data and Social Security data — to update information. Morales was required to provide more proof of his citizenship, which he did. Still he received a letter detailing that if he didn’t provide proof again that he would be purged from the voting rolls. According to the DOJ, Georgia mistakenly implemented the citizenship verification program without first seeking preclearance required under the Voting Rights Act. Section 5 of the act (preclearance) is being reviewed in an unrelated case by the U.S. Supreme Court. (In other words, they broke the law) http://www.macon.com/203/story/735395.html?story_link=email_msg |
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Experienced Member |
The jackasses, guided by marxist and socialist doctrine, seek all the illegal voters they can. The idea has nothing to do with justice or respect for rule of law. It has only to do with creating chaos by which weak-minded slaves, not citizens, will meekly succumb to the imploring non-leaders of the crisis du jour for further control of all aspects Americans' lives.
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Highly Experienced Member |
You are so full of it. Look at your calendar its not 1950 anymore, got any proof of your accusation now? Or is your whole evidence its GA and they have racist thwere, co'z everyone knows that the racist are only in the south.. Why dont you explain why it is so hard for minorities to get an id. And why is that they can cash checks buy beer and conduct any other business with an ID but some how they cant seem to vote and show an id. Minorities are not helpless no matter how much you want them to be. Any one of these.... #SSN # Original birth certificate (State issued, Hospital birth certificates are not acceptable). # Certified copy of birth certificate (Issued from Vital Statistics with affixed seal) # Certificate of birth registration # Certified copy of court records (adoption, name changes or sex changes.) # Certified naturalization records # Immigration I.D. card # Valid Passport And the one that you probably have a problem with: U.S. citizens must furnish proof of citizenship. Non-U.S. citizens must present proper immigration documentation. Documents presented must be either in English or translated into English by a translator approved by the Department of Driver Services. |
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Experienced Member |
you still say "Red China" doncha? or is it ChiComms? |
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Sarcastic Member |
Determining elegibility is a states right issue. Some states allow felons to vote, others do not. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
But we DO have Federal voting laws like HAVA and the Voting Rights Act and when those are violated, the DOJ is absolutely right to get involved. |
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Sarcastic Member |
Sure there are times for the fed to legitimately get involved. But the fed would never overstep its bounds, right. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
The last DOJ helped GA right this bill this DOJ struck it down. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
LOL...Now, I never said that!  But that does not seem to be the case here. Federal law was broken. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
The bill you are referring to, SB 86, and this issue regarding Georgia's verification process are separate issues. SB 86 would not go into effect until Jan 2010. The DOJ halted their current citizenship verification process which had not been approved by the DOJ (as they are required to do because of the Voting Rights Act) |
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Experienced Member |
I really do not see the issue in proving who you are before you vote. The last couple of elections I just walked up, stated my name and address, and voted. No ID or other form of verifying who I was. So anyone who knew my name and address could have voted for me.
Doesn't anyone see an issue, or possible issue, with this? If states will provide proper ID free of charge, there is no "poll tax". If individuals have their BCs or passport, it should be no big deal. This crap about 'disenfranchising' voters and targeting minority voters is just that, crap. Accusations that the right wants to limit voter base for the left is just another scare tactis from the kool-aid drinkers. |
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Sarcastic Member |
You are assuming that a government can hand out voter ID's in a timely and effecient manner. Mostly I agree with you, but I couldn't resist the jab at government.  |
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Experienced Member |
Can't fault ya on the jab!!!! And yes, I assume a lot there. I am thinking if laws were passed now (or within the next year) and go into effect the next presidential election, there should be plenty of time. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Your timely manner goes out the window when obstructionist get involved with lawsuits. acorn, aclu DNC |
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Highly Experienced Member |
To use your words.... True dat! |
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Experienced Member |
Unfortunately, I have to agree. It would be drawn out for way too long. |
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That would be the job of the DOJ... In any event, i fail to see how showing a legit ID is really that hard..these people have to get to the voting booth right? i assume most dont walk..by law, you must have a license on you if you are driving.. Some of you should look into what a person from say, for example, England has to do to immigrate here, then compare that to ANY spanish speaking person. Having just had two family members go through the process, I think you'd be surprised. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Driving is a privilege, voting is a RIGHT. You can be denied your driving privilege if you cannot prove that you are capable of operating a motor vehicle safely, but you cannot be denied your RIGHT to vote without good cause, and not showing a photo ID is NOT a good enough reason to deny anyone their right to vote. Also, there are folks who do not drive. They depend on others for their transportation needs whether it be public or private. Every election cycle, Republicans have gone to great lengths to keep campaign volunteers from providing free transportation to and from the polls, and have gone to great lengths to keep voting registration information and or forms from being sent out with driver's license renewals. This is because the people these things most effects are those citizens who are legally qualified to vote and traditionally align with the Democrat Party. Furthermore, US citizens are not required to carry any identification in order to move about...that has been both established and confirmed many times by the USSC. Anyone may be required establish their identification if requested by law enforcement authorities, but that does not mean that we are REQUIRED to actually carry any form of ID, just that we may be lawfully detained until our identification is established.
What happens in Great Britain, Mexico, or Timbuktu is irrelevant to this discussion. This is about one US political party trying to restrict the voting rights of qualified American citizens in order to manipulate the outcome of elections in their favor in order to gain power or remain in power. The voter registration process requires one to establish his or her citizenship status by declaring themselves to be a citizen by stating their place of birth. If the person is a naturalized citizen, then proof of citizenship is required. There is no problem with this process, it is a fair and equitable process in itself when it is allowed to work without undue and unnecessary interference. Once proper citizenship and eligibility status is established, then the voter registration is complete and that person should be on the voter rolls at their polling station. From that point, all that should be required to vote is to either show the voting registration card or something else to establish that you are the person on the list. The way most state's voting requirements are written, this is the case. Even the Georgia laws specify many different kinds of acceptable identification to show this, but the problem comes in when the registration process is held up for an unreasonable amount of time, especially when it is a certain demographic that traditionally votes on opposition to the party in power, and when it occurs right before an election. This is where the problem is with the current situation in Georgia and other states, not so much the requirement for some form of identification, but making the voter registration process and act of voting unreasonably difficult for certain groups of people. Requiring a photo ID or anything in conjunction with the voter registration card is nothing more than an oblique attempt at obstructing the democratic process to favor one party by manipulating the voting rolls. This is because there are those citizens who do not have these kinds of documents. Elderly that do not drive and who live in retirement homes and who have others taking care of their business affairs for example. And, it is these people who traditionally vote for the Democrat agenda and Democrat candidates. The problem with this current situation is that since there has been NO problem with voter fraud, and those who are pushing more restrictions on the voting registration and polling process admit this, then WHY is it suddenly necessary to institute more restrictions by putting more requirements into the process? If that is not to restrict who is voting, then what is it all about? |
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Voting is a right of U.S. citizens.
Again, I'm not sure why the blowup here. I need an ID to use my ATM card..I need an ID to enter a military base...I need an ID if I'm pulled over by the police.. Again I'm betting 90% of voters drive to the polls. That 90% should easily produce an ID, right? Dont try to cloud this in a voters rights issue. It clearly is NOT. What it is, is just another attack on our system in an effort to support illegals. This is just another attack on people who do the right thing and follow the law. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Georgia violated the Voting Rights Act. In simpler terms, they broke the law. Their system was proven to be flawed and was identifying citizens as not being eligible to vote. That isn't a voting rights issue? That is just an "attack"? How many people are advocating for non-citizens to vote? How many non-citizens actually DO vote? You want to disenfranchise, according to your math, 10% of the population that doesn't have identification to prevent a fraction of a percent of non citizens from voting? Do you know what the penalties are for casting a ballot fraudulently? Did you know it is a felony? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
These are the sme people that want to give illegals DL's and issue IDs out in their communities but for Americans to be given IDs in GA's case its discrimination.  |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Embattled POW/MIA Champ Dornan Banned From House Floor
Special to the U.S. Veteran By D. O. Liber Sep./Oct./Nov. 1997 On September 18, with an official announcement pending of "overwhelming evidence" of voter fraud that victimized Congressman Bob Dornan, the House of Representatives voted to bar POW/MIA champion Dornan from the House floor until a proposal for a December special election is debated. The ban, which is the first in the 200 year history of Congress, resulted when Dornan verbally challenged Rep. Robert Menendez, (D-NJ) who has led his party's effort to halt the investigation into the 1996 Orange County, California election of Loretta Sanchez Brixey who stole Dornan's Congressional seat through a massive registration of non-citizens and illegal aliens to vote for the "Latina" candidate. The Congressional Hispanic Caucus and Democratic Party have used the libelous central themes of "racism" and "anti-Hispanic" in their effort to cower Newt Gingrich and other Republican leaders. Contrary to rumor, eyewitnesses claim that Dornan did use the words "coward" and "anti-Catholic," but did not physically intimidate or threaten Menendez. During the August recess, congressional investigators from the House Oversight Committee led by Chair an Bill Thomas (R-CA) were tasked with comparing around 5,000 names of non-citizens, primarily Mexicans and some Vietnamese who registered to vote in the 45th District of California, to the voting lists of the November 1996 election. Dornan, whose lawyers and the California Attorney General's Office have already identified more than 400 bad votes, mostly through subpoenaed records of the radical Hermandad Mexicana organization. The Committee needs to identify only 600 additional illegal votes — less than 15% of the non-citizens who registered — to overcome the 984 margin of victory by Loretta Sanchez-Brixey. The ballots will remain secret which will prevent Dornan from being immediately reseated, requiring a special election, mostly likely in December, to resolve the vote fraud scandal. While the Republican House leadership has been luke warm in openly supporting the reinstatement of Dornan, the Democratic Party has launched a full fledged offensive spearheaded by partisan unionists, Hispanic activists, the National Organization for Women, homosexual rights advocates and pro-Hanoi Vietnamese in Orange County. Sanchez, who dropped her married name Brixey to play the race card for the election, has established a voting record of supporting ultra-liberal causes such as partial-birth abortion, and on June 14, 1997 she was a featured speaker at the homosexual Human Rights Campaign Gala in San Francisco. Sanchez's support for the most vicious form of late-term abortion (where 8 or 9 month-old infants brains are sucked out by abortionists while leaving the mother's womb) and homosexual advocacy, detaches her from the mainstream values of the largely Catholic or evangelical Mexican-American community. While her husband has dropped out of sight since convicted in court of stealing Dornan campaign posters, people are talking in Orange County about Sanchez's Clinton-style morals because of an alleged affair she was having with a local official. And recently, there are whispers that she allegedly had another affair with a member of Congress while on a Congressional delegation. The relationship between Sanchez and the far left was consummated during the election when the pro-Sandinista organization, Neighbor to Neighbor, based in San Francisco and Washington, D.C., ran the Sanchez campaign get-out-the-vote effort that targeted the Hispanic community. "They made the difference," Sanchez told local reporters. "They are like a trained military. They know how to put volunteers onto the force." The Orange County Register described the Sanchez "stealth campaign:" "While Sanchez said she was merely walking precincts, she actually had an army of volunteers from Neighbor to Neighbor step in to devise and coordinate programs to get occasional Hispanic voters to the polls." With the help of other left-wing Hispanic organizations such as Hermandad Mexicana and labor unions, the "occasional voters" recruited for the Sanchez "army" included many who were not American citizens. The emphasis on targeting, largely Hispanic newcomers was launched by the White House under the Clinton Administration "Citizenship USA" program. Clinton Administration documents obtained through subpoena by the Congress show that the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service was pressured by the White House to deputize community organizations such as Hermandad Mexicana to register one million aliens for citizenship to pad the Democratic Party's voter pool in areas such as New York, Chicago, Miami, Texas and southern California where large legal and illegal Hispanic aliens reside. Subsequent Congressional findings estimated that around 180,000 aliens with criminal records, including rapists, drug and weapons dealers and suspected murderers were granted citizenship because the INS did not forward their records to the FBI for the required screening. The deputized organizations and labor unions conducted citizenship drives, especially targeting absentee ballots, where proof of citizenship is not required. INS officials in Los Angeles estimated that in Dornan's district around 500 criminal aliens granted citizenship may have voted, that is half the margin of the Sanchez victory. Under U.S. law, those votes should be rejected. However, the investigation process would take months to complete and is not being attempted. Equally, important were inroads made by the Democrats in the district's Little Saigon, the largest population of Vietnamese in the United States. The Clinton Administration used, the private welfare agency, Vietnamese Community of Orange County, Inc. whose Director, Mrs. Mai Cong (nicknamed "Viet Cong"), was the only Vietnamese-American delegate to the Democratic Party Convention, in tandem with pro-Hanoi business people. Mai Cong's husband, Le Kim Dinh, a former wartime reporter for the anti-war New York Times, made public statements criticizing Dornan and claiming it was time to put the Vietnam war behind and, as Sanchez claimed, "to reach out" to the communist regime. Sanchez publicly stated that she would go to Vietnam with Bill Clinton to improve relations. There are 2,000 small Vietnamese and Viet-Chinese owned business in Little Saigon. Of these, half pay rent to only one man, Frank Jao, 48, an ethnic Chinese who grew up in North Vietnam. He is reviled by many Vietnamese leaders in the area for his open advocacy of doing business with Hanoi, where he established his own businesses with rent money from his American-based tenants. It was widely known in the district that a number of pro-Hanoi businessmen were supporting the anti-Dornan campaign. Dornan is seeking to find whether Frank Jao, like Johhny Chung of Campaign Gate fame, directly or indirectly contributed to the Sanchez campaign? The Little Saigon radio station which relies on advertising by the pro-Hanoi businesses repeatedly attacked Dornan as "not caring" about the Vietnamese while praising Sanchez who had no previous relationship with Vietnamese anywhere. Prominent pro-freedom Vietnamese in the district believe that Vietnamese non-citizens who voted were most-likely registered or influenced by Mai Cong's organization. Although Dornan received easily won every precincts with Vietnamese residents, the 15 to 20 percent of Vietnamese who voted against him equaled the margin of victory for Sanchez. As evidence mounts that Dornan was the victim of a substantial vote scam that involved non-citizens manipulated by activists groups such as Hermandad Mexicana and the Vietnamese Community of Orange County, Inc., the Democratic Party and their leftist allies have gone on the offensive. Hispanic activists have staged mass demonstrations at the Los Angeles Times building to protest its reporting of vote scam, as well as inviting Latino activists from across the United States to demonstrate at Congressional field investigation hearings. The House Hispanic Congress has staged press conferences and issued numerous press releases accusing the investigation as "racist" and "anti-Hispanic." Female Members of the House, supported by Minority Leader Dick Gephart have pledged to "shut down the House," if vote fraud is confirmed. And in order to manipulate racial politics in case of a special election, labor unions and Hispanic organizations have formed the Orange County Community Forum to "encourage voting and civic involvement" of Hispanic, black, Arab, Asian and Jewish residents of the county. If vote fraud is finally confirmed by the House Oversight Committee, in order to run a strong campaign in October and November to recover his Congressional seat, Dornan will require strong financial and organizational support by American veterans — especially Hispanic-American veterans — pro-life organizations and pro-freedom Vietnamese. The outcome of Dornan's challenge will set a precedent for Constitutional sanctity of the right to vote by American citizens. For concerned veterans and families of POW/MIAs, given the lack of assertiveness and skill by the current Congress against the political sabotage conducted by lawmakers such as John McCain and John Kerry, Bob Dornan's fate will determine whether the truth about missing American prisoners who were last known alive in communist hands is buried forever. 'http://www.usvetdsp.com/dornan.htm' <edit> wiki: In 1994 Sanchez ran unsuccessfully as a moderate Republican for the Anaheim City Council under her then married name, Loretta Brixey. In 1996, she changed parties and recast herself as a moderate Democrat to run in the 46th District against six-term Republican incumbent Bob Dornan. The bitterly fought race saw Sanchez charge that Dornan was out of touch with his constituency, especially after a distracting run for the 1996 Republican Presidential nomination. The 46th had always had a Democratic tilt, but became even more Democratic after the 1990 census when it received a considerably larger number of Hispanics than had previously been in the district. Sanchez won by 984 votes, and Dornan contested the election, alleging that many votes were cast by people who were not American citizens. A Congressional investigation found evidence that 624 votes were indeed cast by non-citizens. An additional 124 votes had already been thrown out by California officials. |
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Quiet Professional |
Heck, it seems only fair that Non-American Citizens were allowed to vote for our Non-American Citizen President we currently have.
C.R. |
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Experienced Member |
When was the last time anyone was prosecuted for it? Felony is great. But there are plenty of crimes that are felonies that get broken every day. Maybe Georgia did implement it wrong, but I feel there needs to be verification of the individual in order to vote. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Yeh, look how hard it is to presecute acorn and the articles I posted above. Spare us the penalty BS. As soon as people were being charged the aclu and and other libs groups would be all over it. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
You just don't get it...you are trying to use apples to demonstrate oranges. Using an ATM card is a privilege. Driving is a privilege. Restricting entry onto a military base is neither a right nor privilege but a matter of security. Voting is a RIGHT! So what if 90% of voters drive to the polls, what about the other 10%? Should they be denied their RIGHT to vote because they do not hold a state driver's license as you are implying? And, why are you trying to obfuscate this issue into one about anything BUT voter's rights when it clearly IS about voter's rights? This is not another attack in support of anything but further restricting some citizens' RIGHT to vote without any unnecessary restrictions. People are following the law when they provide the necessary proof of citizenship when they register. They provide their voter registration card to vote. If they do not have their voter registration card, then there are other acceptable forms of identification. That is the way it has been for a long time and it works, and since there is no systematic voter fraud happening, then why is the right getting so xenophobic? Illegal immigrants are not registering to vote and are not voting...these people are staying as far away from things like this as possible so as not to be found out. So again I ask, if there is no problem with voter fraud, and illegals certainly are not registering or voting, and since restrictive laws like this clearly have been proved to have more effect at limiting the liberal and Democrat voting bloc than fighting voter fraud, and are being pushed by rightists in the GOP, then how can this NOT be about one party trying to manipulate the vote to stay in power? |
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Does begging and pleading count as foreplay? |
Both my sons didn't drive until after the age of 19...at 16 both had state IDs. My younger son had a passport before a DL. Easy enough to get and free. Not much news coverage of the GOP trying to prevent free rides to polls around the St. Louis area, but we are kinda slow. The motor-voter law was a controversy here but about the same time that was going on, the Dems were trying to stop voter registration at public libraries. Talk about an insult. The only people who are going to disenfrancised by voter registration rules are those who don't want to go through a very simple process. |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint DOJ HALTS VERIFICATION OF VOTER CITIZENSHIP
