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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Drilling for Oil and Gas Reserves in America.|
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Member |
Their has been a lot of post on drilling here in America for gas and
oil. You have Politicians on Capital Hill stating that if we drill more here in America that it would bring down prices here for all Americans. Take the Discovery channel, the History channel, the science channel. Watching the show that these channels do, whether it is the wildcaters drilling for oil or natural gas in rural America or drilling off shore in the Gulf Of Mexico, or even drilling in Alaska. The Story is the same. They are drilling to sell to the world Market, not just for here in the USA. The show covering the drilling and exploration in Alaska, the drillers were saying that the companys were selling to other countrys. The show on the companys rebuilding the offshore rigs that were damaged by Katrina were also getting set back up and they would be selling to the foreign markets as well for use here in America. The show covering an American company that was having their offshore rigs built in Korea and then shipped back to the states for assembly would also be selling to the world market as soon as the new rigs were up and running. Take the Barnet Shale here in North Texas for Natural Gas. The Companys have hired Actors for comercials tellin about the billions of dollars it will bring in for evryone here in North Texas. Jobs, extra money for schools, cities will have extra money, and ETC. But when you listen very close to the comercial, you here the Actor say that it will bring in even more money by selling to other countries. Even take our logging indutry, We are selling our home grown wood to other countries which in tern drives up our prices here. So greed is just driving up the prices. Believe what you want,say what you want. But when I see and here a Tool Pusher on a rig say it. You can generally take it to the bank as Gospel. |
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Member |
This is why I believe we should have Goverment contracted oil companies that only drill and sell for the US.
It's not just the cost, it's the security. We need energy independence from ANY forieghn oil.
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Experienced Member |
Its all supply and demand. The question is only how many markets are involved in the demand. And its kinda curious that we would be so upset when we import most of our oil anyway. We import most of our junk too. I for one would be fine with a self serving america. But those in both parties seem more interested in global free trade. Well you give and you get in that world. |
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Member |
It's more then just Supply and Demand, the weak dollar and Future speculators are also part of the problem. However, if we flood the Market with Oil, prices should drop. |
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Experienced Member |
The fall of the dollars value has only fueled demand. And yes to a certain degree its speculators speculating on what the democratic congress' "the end of oil" and "60% reduction in green house gas" and "we will not drill in ANWR" mean when combined with Bush's "we will not allow Iran to obtain nuclear weapons".. Damn right they are speculating higher oil prices. You'd be a fool to think otherwise.
And there in lies the problem. How exactly do you flood the market when the only nation on the planet capable of increasing production is Saudia Arabia. And their ability to increase production is woefully inadequate to flood the market. |
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Member |
We have the capabilities to do it, however with all the regulations in place, it will take years before we could start doing it. It would also mean that some of the regulations need to be changed and or eliminated all together. |
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Member |
I still have my Auto Mechanics book from my College days.
The book was Copy written back in 1980. It the part that covers oil and the Automotive industries it says that back in the 70s and early 80s out of all the oil we Imported, of that we would intern Export 2/3rds of that oil. The above statement is not word for word as that it would fall under copyright infringemnet. I talked to one of my Proffesers who retired in 2000, and he said it was still pretty much the same even until his retirement. This Book was used at most Universitys that taught Automotive Service Technology throughout the US. The books we had at the College back in the 70s said basically the same thing except that it was then reffered as the 60s and early 70s. But thier other info out their put out by whomever, so it is up to everyone to chose to believe. |
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Member |
You are correct, because it's a free market any Oil company can sell to whole world.
However, that said, I think we should have Goverment Contracted Drillers, refinerys, etc. that are specifically contracted to drill and sell to the US only. IMO
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Member |
We don't have enough oil to influence the market. If we "flooded the market", OPEC would turn off their tap to maintain prices where they want. We're small potatoes vs OPEC. Saudi Arabia alone has an estimated 260 Billion barrels of oil, whereas we only have an estimated 21 Billion. Oil companies hold no allegiance to the USA. If we open up our reserves to any oil company they are not going to cut us any better of a deal than OPEC would, even if they get the oil from under our feet. The USA became a world power because we were pioneers of the industrial revolution, fueled by oil, but oil is now a diminishing resource. It's a 17th century resource. In order to maintain our power, we need to be pioneers in the future. In future technologies that are fueled by alternative energy. If we want to remain a world power we need spend our time and effort now in developing those technologies (solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, nuke), rather than wasting our time searching for and fighting over a 17th century fuel that is running out anyway. It's not about independence from "foreign" oil. It's about independence from OIL period! It's a matter of national security, even moreso than the "War on Terror". It'll be a cold day in hell before any terrorist in a cave could even come close to taking down the USA, but strangle our economy and we could tapout faster than Tiny Tim in a cage match. |
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Experienced Member |
Thats just it we don't have the ability to do it. We haven't had the ability to do it since we stopped developing back in the 70s. We haven't built the refineries. We haven't been drilling. We haven't been doing anything but decreasing our infrastructure. And now we have the congress driving our oil companies out of the country with their predatory tax plans. And whether you want to talk about McCain or Obama neither want to open ANWR. Obama doesn't want to drill off the coast either. Its a pipe dream to think anything is going to change any time soon. Its going to require a mass removal from congress and well the only thing you can do with the president is vote for the third party. Maybe they'll get the message. And maybe the oil companies and investors will actually put up the capital to make it happen. But if they do it will be tepid. And its not going to have a significant effect for years. In the mean time the rest of the world's oil supplies continue to dwindle. Think about it. You have money. You might invest in oil companies providing them with the capital necessary to build the infrastrucutre and rigs. With all the talk of nationalization and or windfall profit taxation. Would you invest it in drilling or refineries? |
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Member |
Oh I agree. Back in 96 when Clinton veto'd the ANWR bill, Oil exec said, "What will you do when Oil prices are $4.00 a gallon." hmmm, I never would have believed it. |
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Experienced Member |
And they continue to do everything in their power to discourage investment in oil companies. They, being congress of course. Even if they do open ANWR no one would be stupid enough to invest in drilling knowing that sooner or later the global warming band and or the socialists would nationalize it and or tax it out of existance. It would just be a DUMB investment. And people with money aren't fools. Thats why they have the money in the first place. However, on the flip side there is a boat load of money ot be made on the demise of oil and the rising prices that are GOING to occur as demand outstrips declining production. (Aka futures speculation) |
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Basic Training |
There is no immediate solution. Any solution will take years to implement. Even once the technology to move away from oil becomes readily available, it will still be years until the majority of Americans move to it, not for lack of will, but economic reasons. Most people still view the purchase of an outomobile as a long term purchase, just because some alternative becomes available most cannot afford to chase the technology. Face it, currnet hybrid cars are expensive, alot of money for less car than we are used to. There is no reason to believe that future fuel technologies will be offered at a reasonable price either. I am all for nuke power, wind and solar is not really feasible, but we still need cars, and there is no or very few wind, solar or nuke cars.
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Member |
When the VW Bug was reintraduced here in America a few years ago, you could get one with a Diesal engine. It averaged 54 MPG. But most Americans chose not to buy one. Some went with the so called hybrids that were saying 35 to 45 MPG. Back in the late 70s a little truck came on to the market. It was called the Isuzu pup. This little truck had a diesal engine that would average 35 to 40 MPG. I bet now that their are alot of Americans that wished they would have bought themselves one of those VWs now.  |
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Experienced Member |
You are absolutely correct on the alternatives. They are years away from practicle wide spread usage. And as long as thats true oil speculation is going to speculate higher prices. There is no conservation at this point, fuel efficiency or hybrids for example, that is going to reverse that trend. There is only two ways to draw down the price of oil. Wide spread adoption of viable alternative fuels/energy sources to oil or wide spread drilling. Neither of which is going to make one bit of difference in the next ten years. Wide spread development of Nuclear power and research and development of either hydrogen or battery/capacitor/compressed air technology might tamper down long term speculation if we get moving on it. I don't see that happening. |
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Member |
But all those technologies provide electricity, and electric cars are already available. The long pole is more power and longer range (for trucking, etc), but I'm positive with a little serious effort we could jump those hurdles in no time. After all, we built an Atom Bomb in less than 5 years, and put a man on the moon in less than a decade after we put the peddle to the metal on those projects. All it takes is the willpower to go in that direction rather than chasing the past (oil development). |
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Experienced Member |
So which politician/company is it that you see putting the peddle to the metal? I have yet to see any of them make even a motion towards such efforts. Are we going to wait until after the election to get started? Will we even get started then? In the mean time we are slipping into recession. Thats going to put a huge drain on investment capital. So we had better get started soon. |
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Member |
I'd support any candidate that provided that kind of leadership. There are no easy answers, but the longer we put off going in the right direction, the harder it will be to be successful. We can go through some pain now, or go through alot worse later on. |
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Experienced Member |
Thats just it. If people (and I mean the electorate as a whole) doesn't get of its azz and start pushing and prodding these fools in Washington and industry to move we are going to face some really hard times ahead. But we are so tied up in partisan politics. We have divided ourselves and we will pay the price for such actions. Lets not kid ourselves. We are down to two major candidates and one independant and en |
